Future Free Agent Moves??-- Offensive Line

[MichaelWinicki]

Where exactly did I say that??



If he doesn't step up, BIG TIME, in training camp this year, then yeah, he's outta there... don't blame me, that's Parcells' rule (and a good one)...



Not when the Cowboys just re-signed him... that's a pretty clear indicator that he figures in their plans...



And I say we ought to draft one, sign one more veteran FA...



That's your opinion, unless, of course, Parcells makes a habit of sharing his thoughts on such subjects with you... I look at how Johnson badly needs to get stronger, and at how wildly inconsistent Gurode is, and I can't belive that Parcells considers that position "SET"...

And of course, that's just MY opinion...



Goodwin, perhaps Jacox...



Then you should pay closer attention, hoss-- my "master list" of available free agent offensive linemen has dwindled by more than half in just the last TWO DAYS...

Jon Runyan, gone...

Tom Ashworth, gone...

Steve Neal, gone...

Chad Slaughter, gone...

Seems to me that teams are "jumping on" veteran free agent offensive linemen in force...



Well, I think that Jacox could beat out either Gurode or Johnson at center, but for the most part, the players I have targeted would make quality depth...

SB I don't see any other FA's signing here to be a backup and that's exactly what they would be. I think we add one more guy through the draft and that's it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I tend to agree with some of what is written above.
This year Flo, Kosier, AJ/Gurode, Rivera, Fabini are the starters.

IMO, if Winston Justice drops to 18 though, take him, and put him behind Fabini. He is already a RT, so the footwork should not confuse him so much. Fabini is old - and it wouldn't surprise me if Justice were starting by week 12.

Then in the second round, draft the best LT left from McNeill, Eric Winston, or Johnathon Scott. Put him behind the older, overpaid, injury plagued Flozell, and let him learn for a couple of years.

Then put Rob Petitti in behind Rivera - he is better suited to be a RG anyway.
Allow Peterson/Kosier to fight for that LG position.
Center is set with AJ and Gurode, IMO.

Take some Free Agent money and try to lure Arrington to Dallas so that you are certain you have a pass rush, and allow Burnett to have another year to get over his injury. Take a little more and sign Big Sam Adams to a 1-2 year deal to rotate with Ferguson.

Take a 5-6 round pick to take a flyer on the most nasty OL player available - just to push the other players, and to groom for the future.

Use the 3rd and 5-7 on a Free Safety/DB.

If you think they are going to draft OT's 1-2... you're into something I want no part of... cos that ain't happenen.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I would have had no problem with Neal , Ashworth or Runyan. Are you going to sign everyone out there?

We picked Koiser and Fabini.

Your original question was were we done, I say it looks like we are based on the sigings of Gurode,Fabini and Kosier.

I would rather have had Neal over Kosier and maybe Ashworth over Fabini, but it looks to me that we picked our vets and we are going with what we have.

I did not say we could not be better and I never said I knew what BP was thinking, I just said it looks that way.

EXACTLY!

You can't have 20 guys on the roster that are offensive-lineman.

Right now we've got:

Adams
Kosier
Johnson
Rivera
Fabini

Petitti
Gurode
Peterman
Colombo

but several lesser lights...

And it doesn't include Tucker.

We add another guy in the draft and that's 10. And even that may be one too many.

Nope. I can not see us signing another FA o-lineman. The numbers just aren't there to support such a move ESPECIALLY if we blow a 2nd or 3rd on a guard or tackle.

 

[Dalmations202]

If you think they are going to draft OT's 1-2... you're into something I want no part of... cos that ain't happenen.

You are probably correct. I seriously doubt they actually would do it. I think it would be the best idea though for the future of the team. Right now, no one is happy with the backup to the OLine, and the OLine itself is questionable due to age. If they actually hit with both those two, they could have 10 years worth of the tackles lined up. Right now, they went and got a 34 year old tackle (old, but a BP guy). They have the other one coming off an injury.

If they went this way, and these guys played out, then OL is set for the next 5-10 years. TE is set, RB is set, QB is questionable past 2 years.

On D, CB is set, NT would be set for at least a couple years, DE is set, ILB is set, and OLB is set with Arrington/Burnett and Ware/Thorton. FS could stand an upgrade, but Roy is set, and Beriault will get some burn soon.

Injuries would be the only derailing part for the next 5 years if Henson/Romo actually panned out to be a QB.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You are probably correct. I seriously doubt they actually would do it. I think it would be the best idea though for the future of the team. Right now, no one is happy with the backup to the OLine, and the OLine itself is questionable due to age. If they actually hit with both those two, they could have 10 years worth of the tackles lined up. Right now, they went and got a 34 year old tackle (old, but a BP guy). They have the other one coming off an injury.

If they went this way, and these guys played out, then OL is set for the next 5-10 years. TE is set, RB is set, QB is questionable past 2 years.

On D, CB is set, NT would be set for at least a couple years, DE is set, ILB is set, and OLB is set with Arrington/Burnett and Ware/Thorton. FS could stand an upgrade, but Roy is set, and Beriault will get some burn soon.

Injuries would be the only derailing part for the next 5 years if Henson/Romo actually panned out to be a QB.

Who's not happy with it?

Until I hear Jerry or Bill say something I'm not convinced it's the train wreck some fans believe that it is.

At some point the young lineman have to step up... like Johnson and Petitti and Gurode and and Peterman even Kosier to some extend.

That fact is we lack legit starters at OLB and FS. And I'm more concerned about WR depth than I am about OL depth at this point.

 

[BIGDen]

I realize this probably is not feasible and most sane people would say I'm going overboard, but I wanted Dallas to bring in at least five guys to battle for spots on the offensive line. I would have liked two more veterans and a high draft pick.

So that's where I'm coming from. I realize I'm in the minority.

-- I think Flozell is lazy and needs to be pushed.

-- Pettiti isn't close to being ready to play, but was forced into action last year.

-- Al Johnson looked awful to me last year.

-- Rivera was hurt and was a disappointment.

-- Allen hasn't been that great in years.

-- Still have hope for Gurode and glad that he is back to battle for a job.

-- Haven't seen much of Peterman, but he didn't look very athletic.

-- Rogers has been a major disappointment.

Perfectly stated. I feel exactly the same way. We need to hit on at least one OL in this draft. Having said that, I still think we pick up a stud LB with our first pick.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Who's not happy with it?

Until I hear Jerry or Bill say something I'm not convinced it's the train wreck some fans believe that it is.

We all find out in 5 weeks. No OL on day one would speak volumes.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

We all find out in 5 weeks. No OL on day one would speak volumes.

That's 100% true.

And I wouldn't be at all surprised if we went OLB, WR, FS (not necessarily in that order) on day 1 of the draft.

 

[silverbear]

SB I don't see any other FA's signing here to be a backup and that's exactly what they would be. I think we add one more guy through the draft and that's it.

I disagree with that... first, I emphatically reject the notion that the Cowboys' starters are set in stone, I believe that LG and C are VERY upgradable, as things stand right now...

Second, and more important, there ARE guys out there who would be quite happy to sign to be a backup... Grey Ruegamer has started 16 of 76 games in his NFL career, just 2 last year... he can play center and guard... Jonathon Goodwin did start 10 games for the Panthers last year, before that he'd started 3 games in his career... he's another center/guard type... that's the type of player I'd be targeting, guys who can play any interior line position (I'd get my new tackle in the draft), guys who have had limited experience starting in the league but are essentially backups...

 

[silverbear]

EXACTLY!

You can't have 20 guys on the roster that are offensive-lineman.

Right now we've got:

Adams
Kosier
Johnson
Rivera
Fabini

Petitti
Gurode
Peterman
Colombo

but several lesser lights...

And it doesn't include Tucker.

We add another guy in the draft and that's 10. And even that may be one too many.

1) Peterman and Colombo are a LONG way from sure bets to make the roster... in fact, Peterman needs to have a GREAT camp in order to avoid being cut (this is his third year in the league, he's played in three games, starting none, and Parcells says if a player hasn't shown he belongs in the league by his third season, then he doesn't belong in the league)... I also rather doubt that Tucker has a future with the team, even if he does ultimately return...

2) 10 solid lineman is a bare minimum you want going into training camp (I'm talking about good talent here, not the bottom of the roster, likely early cut types)... linemen get injured, you know...

Nope. I can not see us signing another FA o-lineman. The numbers just aren't there to support such a move ESPECIALLY if we blow a 2nd or 3rd on a guard or tackle.

I'm not saying it will happen, but it would be a sound, savvy move on the part of the Cowboys... I'm simply a long way from convinced that we have a good offensive line as things stand right now, and if we have the cap flexibility to address that issue, we should do so...

It is my long-held belief that the secret to winning consistently in the NFL is to build a good, preferable dominating, offensive line... that was the secret of the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys... we don't currently have anything resembling a dominating offensive line, and if the Boys are eager to take that next step to being a perennial contender, the quickest way to get that job done is to upgrade the offensive line...

 

[silverbear]

If you think they are going to draft OT's 1-2... you're into something I want no part of... cos that ain't happenen.

You're probably right, but I do seem the remember the Boys drafting THREE cornerbacks one year (Kareem Larrimore, Mario Edwards and IIRC Duane Goodrich)...

Then again, the didn't work out real well, did it?? LOL...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You're probably right, but I do seem the remember the Boys drafting THREE cornerbacks one year (Kareem Larrimore, Mario Edwards and IIRC Duane Goodrich)...

Then again, the didn't work out real well, did it?? LOL...

it was also Jerry Jones running the draft :snickers:

 

[silverbear]

Who's not happy with it?

Until I hear Jerry or Bill say something I'm not convinced it's the train wreck some fans believe that it is.

Unless you were satisified with the way the line played last year, I can't see how you'd be content with it as it's currently constituted...

Basically, we're replacing Petitti with Fabini, a step up... we're also replacing Allen with Kosier, and I'm gonna need to be convinced that this represents any kind of step up... so at best, the line is only SLIGHTLY better than last year's, when most all of us were saying it was a team weakness...

At some point the young lineman have to step up... like Johnson and Petitti and Gurode and and Peterman even Kosier to some extend.

What if they don't have the TALENT?? I mean, it's unlikely that all of them will bomb out, but it's dangerous to assume they're all ready for prime time, when we've had no indication that's the case...

That fact is we lack legit starters at OLB and FS. And I'm more concerned about WR depth than I am about OL depth at this point.

We can address most if not all of those needs with other free agent moves, and in the draft... in particular, I think the WR situation will need to be addressed in the draft... but we have the cap room to bring in more than one more free agent, in fact we could bring in 3 or 4 more (provided we don't splurge on an expensive, "name" free agent, in which case we might only be able to bring in 2 more)...

If we were to a point where we could only afford to bring in one more free agent, that would be a different story... but I believe we can bring in an OL, a FS, and some help at LB or at DT... or maybe a backup QB...

 

[burmafrd]

Fabini should be solid at RT- and PEttiti will be much improved.
Rivera from all accounts is healed and ready.
Johnson from all accounts is trying to trade some of his quickness for more bulk and strength- that just might work out.
Kosier is better then many people think-at the very least is much more agile then LA was.
The Hotel is also from all accounts going to back at full strength.
Peterman, COlumbo- just might get something there.
Draft- certainly we will get something there as well.
Overall I see the O line being at least somewhat better then it was when the Hotel was playing. Which makes it a lot better then it was for the last half of the season.

 

[Dalmations202]

Then of course there is the "other side".
Fabini -- just another old BP guy -- good, but not good enough that he just got cut
Rivera -- no guarentees, old and coming off back problems
Al Johnson -- pushed around by the big NT's last year -- can he gain size and strength? Dallas resigned Gurode partially because of this.
Kosier -- new guy that no one had heard of - replacing an All-pro. Can he handle the job? Can Peterson?
Flozell -- coming off knee problems - no guarentees -- should be in the prime of his career, but still another unknown.

Known backups with a little talent -- Gurode, Petitti, Peterson are these three starting material? Guess we'll find out. Columbo ??

I still think trying to get the two future tackles right now will pay off dearly later.

 

[The Curly One]

Flozell is an unknown factor here. He has played well when he was not hurt for the last several years but has way too many false start penalties. I have heard (my be mistaken) that he is deaf in his right ear. If so why is he on the left side of the line? I think if you put him on the left where he could hear then it might cut down on the false start penalties. He has been solid in blocking so I do not think it is a talent issue. Am I wrong here in that thinking? Curly

 

[burmafrd]

I think it is his left ear that is the problem. Not sure. there has been talk about moving him to the right side over the years- but we never got anyone that could take his place. More and more you need quickness at the tackle position- that is more important. One of the reasons Ferguson is so higly ranked this year is that his main positive is trememdous quickness.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You're probably right, but I do seem the remember the Boys drafting THREE cornerbacks one year (Kareem Larrimore, Mario Edwards and IIRC Duane Goodrich)...

Then again, the didn't work out real well, did it?? LOL...

You know I was thinking about that! LOL!

 

[silverbear]

You know I was thinking about that! LOL!

Hard to believe that when the dust settled, they'd blown it on all 3 of them...

 

[big dog cowboy]

Peterman needs to have a GREAT camp in order to avoid being cut (this is his third year in the league, he's played in three games, starting none, and Parcells says if a player hasn't shown he belongs in the league by his third season, then he doesn't belong in the league)...

Hurt his rookie year, last year was the same as a rookie year. Nothing but upside here. He won't be cut.