FWST Blog: David Buehler on his first game

[LarryCanadian]

No, I'm not sure 1 for 3 is going to cut it at all. I don't mean in my opinion, I mean from the perspective of the coaches that will be hard pressed to keep 3 kickers at times. Although I also really meant kicking it into the endzone and not touchbacks per se, because the kicker can't fully control if a player runs it out or not.

Sorry if I have high expectations for the new Chuck Norris, but if you are brought in to predominantly do 1 thing and that is kick the ball into the endzone for potential touchbacks and that happens 1 out of 3 times, I don't think you are doing what was hoped for.

I was a bit disappointed to see the ball land at the 4 yard line on the first kickoff, that is all (I missed the 2nd half kickoff -darn pee break).

I do appreciate the stats though, and while I didn't think the best kickoff guys hit for more than 33% touchbacks, my understanding (and I admit it is limited) is that few, if any other teams have a roster spot for a kick-off specialist. So yeah, darn rights, if you use a draft spot AND use a roster spot, AND a game day spot, I would like to see the best touchback percentage in the league. But I will clarify my point and say that I want good hang time and the ball to be caught in the endzone, and not just specify touch backs. That is what he was drafted for.

How come expectations for this team need to be "realistic" or "fair". I'm hoping for the guy to be Uber. So sue me.

I am routing for the guy though, and I am on the side of keeping 3 kickers, AND I thought it was a good draft pick, and I think it is great insurance for a field goal kicker who had offseason surgery, and actually, I think it would be neat if Bueller tried a 60 yard field goal for fun one game (even if preseason). And yes I think Folk rocks too.

LarryCanadian

 

[Cowboys22]

Wow, the expectations for Buehler's kickoffs are unreal.

Just so people actually get some perspective, here are the top three touchback percentages for each season since 2000 --


2000 -- 18.8, 16.0, 15.7
2001 -- 22.0, 16.7, 16.4
2002 -- 22.7, 21.6, 17.4
2003 -- 32.4, 17.0, 15.3
2004 -- 32.9, 19.4, 18.6
2005 -- 26.7, 25.3, 21.6
2006 -- 35.8, 25.3, 25.0
2007 -- 32.4, 22.1, 21.3
2008 -- 33.3, 32.4, 31.0


Only seven teams (four different kickers) in the past nine years have had higher than 27 percent touchbacks. If Buehler gets even 20-25 percent, he'll be among the best in the NFL.

Never one to argue with you, but I didn't say 2 out of 3 touchbacks. I said 2 out of 3 at least 3 yards deep. To me, that is the point where half the returners will take a knee and half will bring it out allowing the coverage team to make stop before the 20 yardline. I would think with his leg and all the hype, he should be able to get 2 out of 3 into the endzone. I like the guy, but if he can't do that, then I'm not sure he's worth the roster spot on a team with very little depth at WR, OL, and LB.

 

[RoadRunner]

Well, he sure got a lot closer to the ball carrier than others on kick coverage. He was in on one tackle I thought, and was in the right spot on another. I guess he doesn't have a set guy that blocks him, but he gets down field to help cover in a hurry, so that is good.

I think it is kind of fun. He was brought in to put ball in endzone for touchbacks though, so 1 for 3 ain't gonna cut it over a full season! That is priority 1, and something that can help us with 15-30 yards of field position average a game, which is nothing to sneeze at!

LarryCanadian

1 for 3 on touchbacks is already a vast improvement over last year's big fat ZERO touchbacks for the entire season.

 

[AdamJT13]

Never one to argue with you, but I didn't say 2 out of 3 touchbacks. I said 2 out of 3 at least 3 yards deep. To me, that is the point where half the returners will take a knee and half will bring it out allowing the coverage team to make stop before the 20 yardline. I would think with his leg and all the hype, he should be able to get 2 out of 3 into the endzone. I like the guy, but if he can't do that, then I'm not sure he's worth the roster spot on a team with very little depth at WR, OL, and LB.

Even the best kickoff guys don't get 67 percent into the end zone, let alone 3 yards deep. When Olindo Mare had that 35.8 percent touchback rate in 2006, only 53 percent of his kickoffs even reached the end zone.

Like I said, the expectations are unreal.

 

[31smackdown]

I just hope all the extra coverage he is doing doesn't weaken his KO's by 5 yards or effect the hangtime.. you would think that you would want him at full strength.. then again if he is covering a punt he shouldn't have to kickoff for at least 5 minutes after that, so he probably can't get too tired playing an additional 10 plays per game.

 

[AdamJT13]

I just hope all the extra coverage he is doing doesn't weaken his KO's by 5 yards or effect the hangtime.. you would think that you would want him at full strength.. then again if he is covering a punt he shouldn't have to kickoff for at least 5 minutes after that, so he probably can't get too tired playing an additional 10 plays per game.

Let's hope we're not punting 10 times a game.

 

[TheCount]

No, I'm not sure 1 for 3 is going to cut it at all. I don't mean in my opinion, I mean from the perspective of the coaches that will be hard pressed to keep 3 kickers at times. Although I also really meant kicking it into the endzone and not touchbacks per se, because the kicker can't fully control if a player runs it out or not.

Sorry if I have high expectations for the new Chuck Norris, but if you are brought in to predominantly do 1 thing and that is kick the ball into the endzone for potential touchbacks and that happens 1 out of 3 times, I don't think you are doing what was hoped for.

I was a bit disappointed to see the ball land at the 4 yard line on the first kickoff, that is all (I missed the 2nd half kickoff -darn pee break).

I do appreciate the stats though, and while I didn't think the best kickoff guys hit for more than 33% touchbacks, my understanding (and I admit it is limited) is that few, if any other teams have a roster spot for a kick-off specialist. So yeah, darn rights, if you use a draft spot AND use a roster spot, AND a game day spot, I would like to see the best touchback percentage in the league. But I will clarify my point and say that I want good hang time and the ball to be caught in the endzone, and not just specify touch backs. That is what he was drafted for.

How come expectations for this team need to be "realistic" or "fair". I'm hoping for the guy to be Uber. So sue me.

I am routing for the guy though, and I am on the side of keeping 3 kickers, AND I thought it was a good draft pick, and I think it is great insurance for a field goal kicker who had offseason surgery, and actually, I think it would be neat if Bueller tried a 60 yard field goal for fun one game (even if preseason). And yes I think Folk rocks too.

LarryCanadian

A lot of good points here. I think he would probably have to lead the NFL to justify the commitment, unless they really feel Folks kickoff distance is doing a lot ofharm to the team. In which case they'd probably be better offgetting rid of Folk. Not that I am advocating that

 

[LarryCanadian]

AdamJT13

I will never argue with your stats. I hate being embarrassed and owned in public, hehe! But at what point do you feel it is worthwhile keeping a 3rd kicker (exclusive of his other abilities which we haven't really seen yet in terms of punt/kickoff coverage, holding, whatever).

If he kicks 50% into the endzone, and achieves a 30% touchback level, was the pick worthwhile, do you keep him on roster, and do you dress him pretty much every week?

I'm looking for an opinion on this one, not numbers. I'm a numbers guy myself, and don't go into a gun fight with a knife usually!

Forums like this are the place for armchair quarterback opinions ("realistic" or not), and I'd like to hear your opinion of whether the pick is worthwhile and not ONLY (I still love the numbers, even if they "own" me, don't get me wrong - they teach a ton) what the stats say. Just because the stats say one thing or one thing is not realistic as an expectation doesn't mean the game has to stay the same way. If that were the case Bob Hayes probably wouldn't have played WR or Emmitt would never have broken the rushing record. Just my opinions.

Go out on a limb and give your prediction for the dude. Do you think that given his pedigree and draft selection and the value of his roster spot on a team uncertain at WR, NT, Oline, LB, etc that Bueller will succeed? Relative term I know, but in your opinion I mean. Will the Cowboys be in the top 3 in the league in touchback percentage and opponent starting field position after kickoff because we drafted this guy? If not was it worthwhile? Maybe it takes 2 years to tell.

Just curious.

LarryCanadian

 

[Big Dakota]

Well, he sure got a lot closer to the ball carrier than others on kick coverage. He was in on one tackle I thought, and was in the right spot on another. I guess he doesn't have a set guy that blocks him, but he gets down field to help cover in a hurry, so that is good.

I think it is kind of fun. He was brought in to put ball in endzone for touchbacks though, so 1 for 3 ain't gonna cut it over a full season! That is priority 1, and something that can help us with 15-30 yards of field position average a game, which is nothing to sneeze at!

LarryCanadian

Try thinking a little before you type.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Big Dakota

Why don't you really say what is on your mind?

I smell me a troll or a trouble maker?! Probably one or the other. Not that I have a problem with either.

Used to have a teacher that would say "Don't you play mental gymnastics with me young man!".

LarryCanadian

 

[dreghorn2]

Larry's point is legit.

Buehler has to make a huge impact to justify his one, being drafted, and two, dressing a 3rd kicker on game day.

Opponents average starting field position must be dramatically improved over what Folk would give us.

Which i really hope is the case.

 

[TheCount]

Try thinking a little before you type.

You might want to try reading and attempting to understand before insulting someone.

 

[AdamJT13]

If he kicks 50% into the endzone, and achieves a 30% touchback level, was the pick worthwhile, do you keep him on roster, and do you dress him pretty much every week?

I can't imagine that the team would draft a kickoff specialist and be disappointed if he matched/surpassed the typical performance of the best kickoff guys in the NFL.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Yeah, but how would YOU feel Adam, hehe?!

I'm just bugging you now.

Do you know how many teams carry 3 kickers, or at least did last year? I think I read somewhere there was only 1 team, but I sure as heck didn't check that.

I actually wish the game day roster would go up by 3-5 players, that the official rosters would go up 3-5 players and that they'd play 2 more official games per season as well as 2 less pre-season games. I'd also suggest the cap should go up significantly in that case as their would be more TV revenue etc. I think the players would be on board eventually, despite the extra wear and tear, because more players would be in league and many players might eek out an extra year or two out of their careers as role players. Then debates over 3 kickers would be less interesting though!

LarryCanadian

 

[jobberone]

We don't know the staff's goals for him. Some arguments for have been made. Another is to add all that extra yardage for an entire year. What's the % of any scores by a team starting from the 30 or 40+ vs the 20?

 

[AdamJT13]

What's the % of any scores by a team starting from the 30 or 40+ vs the 20?

Teams score an average of about 1.3 points per possession started at the 20, compared to 1.57 from the 30 and 2.0 from the 40.

 

[dogunwo]

Don't let him hear you call him a kicker or he will kill you and eat your remains.

Isnt that a picture of him in your avatar?

 

[Big Dakota]

You might want to try reading and attempting to understand before insulting someone.

I understand when someone doesn't understand football, now i can put you on the canuck's side of the room.

 

[TheCount]

I understand when someone doesn't understand football, now i can put you on the canuck's side of the room.

Yeah, and you can sit on the side of the room for people that are jerks without cause.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Big Dakota.

So if I make 1 post that you don't agree with about a 3rd kicker that the majority of other NFL teams don't see the need for, and despite being for it myself, you extrapolate that "someone doesn't understand football".

I've never hidden the fact that I never played the game myself (except for on the sandlot), but I have sure watched a lot of it for 30 years. I actually look forward to learning stuff on this forum.

Other than a big mouth, do you bring any credentials to the table. I always have to suspect people who make sweeping criticisms of other posts/posters without having the balls themselves to either back up their criticism/disagreement or give their own prediction/observations to the table. Are you too chicken to receive what you dish out?

So put your money where your mouth is "Big" Dakota. Will Bueller benefit the team by 20 yards of average field position a game. Will he make 20 special team tackles this year?

Too much effort to contribute positively? Thought so. A poster like AdamJT13 will put someone into "reality" with a carefully researched effort by providing stats, history, and insight, whereas dudes like you seem to lurk in the fringes and jump out and say "haha". Then you proudly look at your 8000 plus posts, thump your chest, and think you are all that brilliant.

Did a "Canuck" kick you in the shin one day, or pee in your cornflakes? A guy that only throws out insults is nothing more than a blowhard dude. I will go and try and research some of your posts in case I'm misreading you, but if I was a betting man, I think that's a pretty safe description.

LarryCanadian