Garrett's system equal opportunity QB killer

[sbark]

Austin rounds off routes a lot. He also does not fight for the ball.

that even brings up more questions ..........than answers.

 

[TrailBlazer]

All quarterbacks throw bad passes. I figure everyone here know that, but based on some previous threads, I thought it needed to be said.

Knowing that all quarterbacks throw bad passes, offensive coaches play chess on the field to get the guys the QB is throwing to as open as possible. That's why you see plays like the one Philadelphia ran at the goal line that got McCoy wide open. It's also why a lot of teams Dallas has faced uses picks. The more open space, the easier the pass should be.

My main problem with Garrett is he doesn't seem to see the need to do things to cross up defenses and get his players wide open. He'd rather line our guys up against theirs and throw to the man who is most expected based on alignment to beat his man. So our players on offense have always got to be better than theirs on defense. When they are not, like Austin against Boykin last night, the QB has to throw into too many tight windows and eventually you are going to have mistakes. Creating mismatches by alignment and open space by movement eliminates some of those opportunities for mistakes.

Football is a game of strategy and Garrett seems to prefer to have his troops march in a straight line instead of employ guerrilla tactics with a few Jap plays thrown in for good measure. It saddens me to think that his scheme is returning for another year.

Good example and you're exactly right

 

[crashintonickdm]

garrett didn't make orton throw the ball behind austin.

if orton leads austin, it's a 15-20 yard gain.

i mean, there are plenty of issues with garrett, but orton's last pass is not one of them.

3rd and 2 and 4th and 1 about 5 different times. all pass plays.

dont defend the idiot.

 

[gimmesix]

the eagles caught passes with our defenders standing right next to them.

the lions caught passes with our defenders standing right next to them.

all across the league, teams are throwing to guys even when they're covered -- and passing yardage is through the roof.

yes, better designed plays -- plays that help receivers get open -- will create even more yardage and cut down on interceptions. but if you don't throw it to a guy becaus there's a defender within 3 feet of him, you'll only complete about 6 passes per game... if you can still throw it after the beating you've gotten from the 18 sacks you absorbed.

I don't think anyone is saying you're going to get players open on every play by play design. There are going to be plenty of times for any team that it has to pass into tight coverage. The difference is a lot of those teams are doing things to help make it harder for that tight coverage to be there on every play.

Denver did a great job of using its other receivers to pick off our defenders for several key plays. Crossing players in the backfield allowed McCoy to get open for an easy TD reception. And those are among many designed plays that I've seen these season by teams Dallas faced that helped their receivers get open. Name how many times you've seen Dallas do something "innovative" to create space for its receivers. ... I think I remember one play this year where I saw that.

 

[gimmesix]

Philly was so innovative, they only scored 2 points more than us, and the only reason that was, was because we went for two. By the way, on the two pointer, why not throw it up instead of a low back pass? Anyways, the only prob I had with Garrett last night was the fact that he went conservative in the red zone with Orton. That caused us to make 3's instead of 7 points.

Philly's scoring problems were a result of Dallas actually getting some pressure for once, and at times corralling McCoy. Orton had good protection for most of the night.

 

[sbark]

I don't think anyone is saying you're going to get players open on every play by play design. There are going to be plenty of times for any team that it has to pass into tight coverage. The difference is a lot of those teams are doing things to help make it harder for that tight coverage to be there on every play.

Denver did a great job of using its other receivers to pick off our defenders for several key plays. Crossing players in the backfield allowed McCoy to get open for an easy TD reception. And those are among many designed plays that I've seen these season by teams Dallas faced that helped their receivers get open. Name how many times you've seen Dallas do something "innovative" to create space for its receivers. ... I think I remember one play this year where I saw that.

yup......

 

[khiladi]

What happened was Green Bay took away the sweep to the right that Murray was successful in. Dallas coaching staff is so inept they just abandoned running completely, because they couldn't mix their running up and tried taking advantage of the man-to-man the Eagles were playing. This was exactly what they did against Green Bay. In both cases, the ending was the same.

 

[Corso]

Austin rounds off routes a lot. He also does not fight for the ball.

Truth.
He's been a half-*** player for the last few seasons.

 

[khiladi]

Funny thing is, it took 6 years for this offense to at least attack the seams once in awhile. Notice how none of their successful passes were typical sideline vertical routes. It was all Witten up the middle in the seams or the drag route by Dez. How bad is it that our most successful plays in the Garrett playbook have nothing to do with Garrett...

 

[Picksix]

I don't know whose fault it was, but there was plenty of time on the clock; we had one time out, we only needed to get into FG range for Money Bailey and we had four downs to do it, yet the ball was thrown into tight coverage for an INT on the first play of the drive. It seems like they could have taken their time, called something safer to get Orton into a rhythm and get a drive going. The whole thing seemed panicked. It also seems like we have seen this script many times before.

Coverage on that play wasn't really any tighter than it was on the TD pass to Dez, or one that he completed to Witten on the same route earlier. Orton just made an awful pass.

 

[khiladi]

Miles is way faster than Dez and Witten. It makes sense he would throw a little behind, because all his throws on routes like that were to primarily Witten. Nothing unusual. As far as the play calling, whatever is said in this post is spot on.

 

[Picksix]

yes, better designed plays -- plays that help receivers get open -- will create even more yardage and cut down on interceptions. but if you don't throw it to a guy becaus there's a defender within 3 feet of him, you'll only complete about 6 passes per game... if you can still throw it after the beating you've gotten from the 18 sacks you absorbed.

There's a Saying in pro football, "You don't throw to open receivers. You throw receivers open." Orton failed to do that on that final pass. Whether or not Austin rounded off his route, the pass was terrible. As good as Orton was last night, he was terribly inaccurate on some throws.

 

[JPostSam]

There's a Saying in pro football, "You don't throw to open receivers. You throw receivers open." Orton failed to do that on that final pass. Whether or not Austin rounded off his route, the pass was terrible. As good as Orton was last night, he was terribly inaccurate on some throws.

on both interceptions, he was a little behind the receiver. could be lack of timing because he didn't have many reps wirh them.

 

[links18]

Coverage on that play wasn't really any tighter than it was on the TD pass to Dez, or one that he completed to Witten on the same route earlier. Orton just made an awful pass.

Right, so don't put him in a position where an awful pass ends the game and the season.

 

[nalam]

Putting players in best position to succeed is the primary responsibility of coaches and play callers . I don't see this with JGs system. When we have taller receivers and who can go up and get the ball we hardly throw jump balls .( even in end Zone ) like the 2 point conversion. You don't throw low to a covered receiver , Witten was open in the middle but that's on Orton.

Also when we were driving for FG with only time out we should be attacking the sideline and out routes so that receivers can run out and stop the clock! we still had good 40-45 yards before the FG Will be a certain thing. Why go for a slant or over the middle , which is much riskier ?

 

[MapleLeaf]

despite my comment about the interception being orton's fault instead of garrett's fault, i agree that this was a big issue throughout the season.

Its part of Garrett's scheme which resembles the West Coast/Coryell scheme. Plays designed to create YAC.

Very challenging because there are tight windows when the defender is trailing, but can look brilliant when done correctly. Prime example Witten's catch over the middle earlier where he plucks the ball out of the air on an excellent lead throw by Orton and rumbles for YAC to set them up in the red zone.

Really there is no bad plays, typically bad execution. With that said it is the playcaller's responsibility to put his team in a position for greatest success.

We don't know how Orton was doing on the practice field with that similar type of play. He could have been lighting it up in practice only to put a stinker up during the game.

OC will typically only add plays into the call sheet that the QB is comfortable with. I would have to assume that Orton signed off on those plays so the ones called were the ones Orton was comfortable with.

 

[Wolfpack]

Jason is a smart bright man. So are the rest of the NFL calibre coaches. Jason isn't flexible, innovative or able to make quick decisive adjustments during a game. His game plans typically fail by the end of the 1st quarter because they are so predicable and telling. His formations and calls by down and distance are easy to call out. By then Romo has to go into shotgun panic mode to get anything done.

 

[joseephuss]

Putting players in best position to succeed is the primary responsibility of coaches and play callers . I don't see this with JGs system. When we have taller receivers and who can go up and get the ball we hardly throw jump balls .( even in end Zone ) like the 2 point conversion. You don't throw low to a covered receiver , Witten was open in the middle but that's on Orton.

Also when we were driving for FG with only time out we should be attacking the sideline and out routes so that receivers can run out and stop the clock! we still had good 40-45 yards before the FG Will be a certain thing. Why go for a slant or over the middle , which is much riskier ?

There was plenty of time for throwing the ball in the middle of the field. They not only had to drive for a score, but they had to make sure to burn off some clock. They didn't want to leave enough time for the Eagles to score. It was just a bad throw on what is one of the easier throws for a QB to make.

Dallas has thrown plenty of jump balls in the end zone for Dez Bryant. Look at many of his scores this season.

I don't know why people think Miles Austin could have fought for that ball. He can't change direction that fast. It is unrealistic to think he could have fought for that ball and therefore he is just lazy.

Some of you are just being nit picky. I guess losing will bring that out. There are things that can be criticized, but the way things get picked apart you would think Dallas finished last in scoring this season.

 

[Rockport]

All quarterbacks throw bad passes. I figure everyone here know that, but based on some previous threads, I thought it needed to be said.

Knowing that all quarterbacks throw bad passes, offensive coaches play chess on the field to get the guys the QB is throwing to as open as possible. That's why you see plays like the one Philadelphia ran at the goal line that got McCoy wide open. It's also why a lot of teams Dallas has faced uses picks. The more open space, the easier the pass should be.

My main problem with Garrett is he doesn't seem to see the need to do things to cross up defenses and get his players wide open. He'd rather line our guys up against theirs and throw to the man who is most expected based on alignment to beat his man. So our players on offense have always got to be better than theirs on defense. When they are not, like Austin against Boykin last night, the QB has to throw into too many tight windows and eventually you are going to have mistakes. Creating mismatches by alignment and open space by movement eliminates some of those opportunities for mistakes.

Football is a game of strategy and Garrett seems to prefer to have his troops march in a straight line instead of employ guerrilla tactics with a few Jap plays thrown in for good measure. It saddens me to think that his scheme is returning for another year.

Lot of folks would be offended by the term "Jap". I married a Japanese and have 3 half Japanese kids. There's 5 right there. Other than that, you made some good points.

 

[Picksix]

Right, so don't put him in a position where an awful pass ends the game and the season.

Well, okay, but my response to that is, why not? I know he's a backup, but he's been in the league a long time, played a lot of games, and is making a lot of money, based on the very idea of him being able to come through and make those kinds of throws in those situations.