General thoughts on the draft

[cowboyec]

Murray is good. It's just weird drafting him if he wont get much playing time behind LVE. But hed def be BPA over henderson.

maybe he starts over Sean Lee...but it's very telling they are taking a hard look at him and Zack Baun.
some think it has to do with LVE or Jaylon.
maybe its Lee.
or a different idea from a new DC inregards to LBs and how he wants to use them vs what we're used to under Marinelli.

 

[cnuball21]

I think based on the interviews the Cowboys are seriously considering a trade back scenario.

Heck if we can get enough trade capital and we are not interested in DE, trade out of the first round totally and gain draft picks. This years draft has a ton of talent in the 2nd and 3rd round if we can get a couple extra picks in those rounds we can add multiple early contributors to this draft and have plenty of draft capital next year with comp picks also. New coaching staff, allow them to build the team that fits their scheme.
If we can get 2 2nd round picks, 3 3rd round picks this year, and next year we should have at the very least based on comp predictions 2 3rds and 2 4ths you have 5 extra picks in the first 4 rounds. Thats how you combat all the contracts that will be hitting us next year and get more cap friendly.

I'd need to know what the board looks like but I'd be fine trading down a few slots or even to the bottom of the 1st if the price is right.

Having multiple 2nd or 3rd round picks could go a long way this year.

 

[cnuball21]

disagree.
he showed plenty during his time at Ou.
from where i was sitting.
one of us is wrong.
we'll see.
helluva player...sideline to sideline.
LOVE to have him.
it would be insane to pass on a play-maker on that side of the ball...considering we lack them.
we have no idea what Nolan will do as DC or his plans for LBs.
sounds like he wants 3....or more.

I looked at multiple scouting reports over the weekend and almost everyone one had eyes/instincts as a negative...this isn't just what I think.

 

[cowboyec]

I looked at multiple scouting reports over the weekend and almost everyone one had eyes/instincts as a negative...this isn't just what I think.

didnt say it was.
i didnt see that in the player i've been watching since his arrival at Ou.
i see a play-maker who makes plays.
he'll do that on sunday.
if im wrong I'll own it.

 

[cnuball21]

didnt say it was.
i didnt see that in the player i've been watching since his arrival at Ou.
i see a play-maker who makes plays.
he'll do that on sunday.
if im wrong I'll own it.

Fair enough. I think he can be a solid pro, I just don't think he's a top 20 selection and someone that will be a top player at his position.

 

[cowboyec]

Fair enough. I think he can be a solid pro, I just don't think he's a top 20 selection and someone that will be a top player at his position.

i think we're trading back...and he's one of the targets...Fulton,Baun,Delpit to round out the 4.
im sure they've talked to guys on video chat who fall in that 15,16,17 range...but whats been released indicates they are looking heavy on defense and trading back.

 

[Cowboyny]

NFL.com had a good thought, put Murray at weakside linebacker. He could be the replacement for Sean Lee.

Overview
Sleek, playmaking linebacker with chiseled frame and long arms. Murray's game is predicated on speed with an ability to fly around from sideline to sideline rolling up tackles. While his twitchy burst allows him to make more plays than the average linebacker, he will overflow to ball-carriers at times. Recognition of play development and ability to take on blocks are both underdeveloped currently, but a move to weak-side linebacker would put him in position to minimize those concerns and maximize his playmaking talent. Murray has hit-or-miss qualities and is more splashy than consistent, but he's immensely talented with the ability to imprint on games on all three downs.

A) Sean Lee isn't our weakside starter anylonger
B) LVE was drafted to replace Sean Lee. He had the same injury in college, he will be back and is a legitimate 3 down player

 

[morasp]

A) Sean Lee isn't our weakside starter anylonger
B) LVE was drafted to replace Sean Lee. He had the same injury in college, he will be back and is a legitimate 3 down player

I sure hope so it would be another terrible pick if LVE had to retire. Either way it's unlikely Lee will play much past next year and Murray would be an excellent replacement.

 

[cnuball21]

i think we're trading back...and he's one of the targets...Fulton,Baun,Delpit to round out the 4.
im sure they've talked to guys on video chat who fall in that 15,16,17 range...but whats been released indicates they are looking heavy on defense and trading back.

I'd take Baun at 17, Fulton and Delpit in a trade down and Murray in the 2nd.

 

[Cowboyny]

I sure hope so it would be another terrible pick if LVE had to retire. Either way it's unlikely Lee will play much past next year and Murray would be an excellent replacement.

With less snaps as the team's strong-side LB, Lee did manage to stay healthy for a full season. I just have a hard time finding a spot for Murray, unless they run more of a 3-4 defense or like XWalker has been suggesting 5-6 linebacker packages. I believe taking a non-rush linebacker is more of a luxury for this team as they have a major holes in the secondary, DL and a third WR.

 

[morasp]

With less snaps as the team's strong-side LB, Lee did manage to stay healthy for a full season. I just have a hard time finding a spot for Murray, unless they run more of a 3-4 defense or like XWalker has been suggesting 5-6 linebacker packages. I believe taking a non-rush linebacker is more of a luxury for this team as they have a major holes in the secondary, DL and a third WR.

You don't know what they're planning. One of my favorite things MM said is get us the most talented players and we'll build a scheme around them. One possibility is Jaylon Smith would become a standup rusher on passing downs something he's been good at in the past. I just don't think you pass on talent when you have the chance. Three Linebackers with that kind of sideline to sideline range would be insane.

Strengths

• Playmaking speed to mark up a stat sheet
• Very decisive and willing to take chances
• Runs and moves like a safety in space
• Fires into gaps and can put offenses behind the chains
• Averaged nearly 15 tackles for loss over last two years
• Can make all the tackles if kept clean
• Weaves and rolls downhill to close the distance on running backs
• Ridiculous range from sideline to sideline
• Instant burst to the ball from a standstill
• Scrape speed to stay square to the line of scrimmage
• Can spy, blitz or rush off the edge on passing downs

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kenneth-murray?id=32194d55-5256-3490-574a-1b8a86aa691f

 

[cnuball21]

You don't know what they're planning. One of my favorite things MM said is get us the most talented players and we'll build a scheme around them. One possibility is Jaylon Smith would become a standup rusher on passing downs something he's been good at in the past. I just don't think you pass on talent when you have the chance. Three Linebackers with that kind of sideline to sideline range would be insane.

Strengths

• Playmaking speed to mark up a stat sheet
• Very decisive and willing to take chances
• Runs and moves like a safety in space
• Fires into gaps and can put offenses behind the chains
• Averaged nearly 15 tackles for loss over last two years
• Can make all the tackles if kept clean
• Weaves and rolls downhill to close the distance on running backs
• Ridiculous range from sideline to sideline
• Instant burst to the ball from a standstill
• Scrape speed to stay square to the line of scrimmage
• Can spy, blitz or rush off the edge on passing downs

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kenneth-murray?id=32194d55-5256-3490-574a-1b8a86aa691f

Smith is a good blitzer, but he's not an edge rusher. We just paid him millions to be an off the ball LBr...he's staying there.

Murray's strength's are ++...his game speed is unreal, but he lacks instincts which negates that.

This is why guys like Lee look like they have 4.5 speed due to above average instincts and guys like Stephon Anthony get overdrafted and look like they have 4.8 speed due to below average instincts. It doesn't matter how fast you are, if you don't have above average eyes / instincts you will not be an above average off ball LBr in the NFL.

 

[Cowboyny]

You don't know what they're planning. One of my favorite things MM said is get us the most talented players and we'll build a scheme around them. One possibility is Jaylon Smith would become a standup rusher on passing downs something he's been good at in the past. I just don't think you pass on talent when you have the chance. Three Linebackers with that kind of sideline to sideline range would be insane.

I disagree. 1st Jaylon Smith isn't a great pass rusher by no means. His game is all about speed. If Aldon/Gregory return, he is not replacing either one as a pass rusher. Jaylon is more of a blitzer then a pass rusher. At this present time, Murray is considered more of a 2 down linebacker, with little experience in coverage. Several scouting reports question his instincts for the position. I would consider such a player late rd 1, but not at 17.

 

[morasp]

Smith is a good blitzer, but he's not an edge rusher. We just paid him millions to be an off the ball LBr...he's staying there.

Murray's strength's are ++...his game speed is unreal, but he lacks instincts which negates that.

This is why guys like Lee look like they have 4.5 speed due to above average instincts and guys like Stephon Anthony get overdrafted and look like they have 4.8 speed due to below average instincts. It doesn't matter how fast you are, if you don't have above average eyes / instincts you will not be an above average off ball LBr in the NFL.

Smith could do the same thing. If they have talented players with that kind of speed they'll find a way to get them on the field. Lee did have close to 4.5 speed.

 

[morasp]

I disagree. 1st Jaylon Smith isn't a great pass rusher by no means. His game is all about speed. If Aldon/Gregory return, he is not replacing either one as a pass rusher. Jaylon is more of a blitzer then a pass rusher. At this present time, Murray is considered more of a 2 down linebacker, with little experience in coverage. Several scouting reports question his instincts for the position. I would consider such a player late rd 1, but not at 17.

Just because last year we only kept two linebackers on the field a lot of the time doesn't mean if we had three that were really good they couldn't keep three on the field on passing downs and blitz one of them.

 

[cnuball21]

Smith could do the same thing. If they have talented players with that kind of speed they'll find a way to get them on the field. Lee did have close to 4.5 speed.

What do you mean Smith could do the same thing?

Being a fast LBr doesn't make you good, I don't understand what you're getting at here.

Lee did not have that kind of speed...he ran a 4.7 which is almost below average for today's LBrs. He wins because of of his elite instincts.

 

[unionjack8]

disagree.
he showed plenty during his time at Ou.
from where i was sitting.
one of us is wrong.
we'll see.
helluva player...sideline to sideline.
LOVE to have him.
it would be insane to pass on a play-maker on that side of the ball...considering we lack them.
we have no idea what Nolan will do as DC or his plans for LBs.
sounds like he wants 3....or more.

Playmaker? Involved in 3 turnovers in 42 games. That's not making plays imho

 

[Cowboyny]

Just because last year we only kept two linebackers on the field a lot of the time doesn't mean if we had three that were really good they couldn't keep three on the field on passing downs and blitz one of them.

We did actually play a lot of 3 LB's on the field last year with Jaylon used more as a nickel rusher.

 

[cowboyec]

Playmaker? Involved in 3 turnovers in 42 games. That's not making plays imho

watch the games.
most saturdays he was the only one on that side of the ball making them.
he is 100% a play-maker.

 

[cowboyec]

I'd take Baun at 17, Fulton and Delpit in a trade down and Murray in the 2nd.

your under-rating Murray in my opinion.
no way he makes it to the 2nd Rd.