Giant's matchup: When the Cowboys are on offense

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is indeed strength against strength. I don't feel the need to go over the Cowboys depth chart. For what the Giant's bring to bear here is Ourlad's depth chart.

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NYG

They are typically pretty accurate but there are a couple of caveats to keep in mind.

First is that Bromley the starting DT and Apple the starting CB just returned to practice Tuesday coming off knee injuries. It will be interesting to see what kind of shape they are in.

If Bromley cannot go then 2nd round pick Thomlinson will start. He may start anyway but from what I have been reading he had not beaten out Bromley before the injury.

With Apple, the Giants have one of the best CB corps in the league. He and Jenkins start with DRC coming in on the nickel. Without him the CB face an issue that is the same across the board with the defense: poor depth.

One possible way to exploit this is single back sets with 4 pass receiving threats on the los. Brice Butler against their dimeback is a good matchup. If you can get the dime guy on someone higher on our depth chart than it is that much better.

The LB corps is not impressive at all. That makes the matchup with the DL critical. If LC and the RG can handle the undertackle, either Bromley or Thomlinson, and JPP then we can put a lot of pressure on the the LB. I like our chances. Last year the combo of Hankins and Harrison everything our interior OL could handle. IF Hankins replacement cannot do as well we will be able to get onto the LB and run the ball.

If we can run the ball and keep the defense on the field then the Giants will be in a pickle. If you look at the defense with the exception of DT, the depth is mostly UDFA and late round draft picks. Even at DT its only 1 deep. This bodes well if we can sustain drives and either wear the starters out or force a rotation.

Landon Collins can wreck a game if he is allowed to freelance. If we can get him in the box and selling out to stop the run then that takes away his ability to buzz routes. It may corral our running game but then we can go over the top.

Notable Matchups:

Zach Martin vs Damon Harrison: two of the best in the league going head to head.

LC vs JPP: This is Collins first test of the season. Penalties are a concern but LC has been improving steadily. If he can set that edge then we have a good chance of running the ball and controlling the game.

Dez vs Giants corners. Dez was contained last year. Dak didn't have a good rapport and he had difficulty getting away from Jenkins. Hopefully Linehan can move him around and get more favorable matchups. I would like to see Dez test Apples injury and see where that is at.

Zeke against Giant's LB. Last season the Cowboys never involved Zeke much in the passing game beyond the screen and dump off game. This season has seen him get more involved with wheel routes hitches and actual routes being run. With Collin's hands full with Witten and Beasley, Zeke will see matchups with Kennard and the Giant's LB. It's a mismatch.

Dak and Giants deep coverage. Last season, the GIants brought Collins down into the box to help stop the run and take away the intermediate routes that were the staple of Dak's game. They all but dared him to go over the top. He struggled mightily only throwing downfield a couple of time and even then he was throwing into coverage. I expect more of the same from Spagnuolo until Dak shows he can beat the scheme.

So that is how I see that side of the ball against the GMen. If we can run the ball then we are going to score points. If not there will be a lot of pressure on Dak and his receivers to get the ball downfield and open things up. There are favorable matchups to be had.

 

[TWOK11]

After watching the tape of last year's NY game at the Meadowlands, the Giants success on defense can attributed to their ability to successfully confuse Dak with respect to man/zone coverages. Multiple times they showed man only to drop into a cover 2, and frequently dropped a LB or even a DL showing blitz presnap into a zone. They would then eventually bring the blitz with Prescott clearly expecting them to drop based on his presnap behavior.

And while they didn't stop Elliott, their front 4 limited him enough to consistently force passing downs. Most teams were never able to dictate our offense like this because we consistently had 3rd and 1-3 which leaves the run in play, and using this strategy consistently on running downs is a great way to get run over for 200+ yards.

 

[Idgit]

Teams that have one guy to lock up Dez and who can get pressure with their down linemen gave us trouble last year. I thought we'd have more success running at the perimeter in those games than we did for whatever reason. But I do think we brought in the extra WRs to give us options in those situations. Even with a S in the box, with Witten, Beasley, and an extra TE or Switzer in coverage and either Zeke out of the backfield or Dak's ability to run if they cover everybody, it seems like we should be more productive against them offensively than we were.

It didn't help that the first game was the first start for Dak and Zeke, though. Or that the 2nd was 0 degrees or whatever it was when it comes to evaluating the downfield throwing.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

After watching the tape of last year's NY game at the Meadowlands, the Giants success on defense can attributed to their ability to successfully confuse Dak with respect to man/zone coverages. Multiple times they showed man only to drop into a cover 2, and frequently dropped a LB or even a DL showing blitz presnap into a zone. They would then eventually bring the blitz with Prescott clearly expecting them to drop based on his presnap behavior.

And while they didn't stop Elliott, their front 4 limited him enough to consistently force passing downs. Most teams were never able to dictate our offense like this because we consistently had 3rd and 1-3 which leaves the run in play, and using this strategy consistently on running downs is a great way to get run over for 200+ yards.

Great stuff. Post more.

Yeah I remember that as well. We would get a decent run and then get stuffed. They completely took away the big runs as well.

I do recall that they consistently had 4 or 5 people in middle coverage as well.

 

[TWOK11]

Great stuff. Post more.

Yeah I remember that as well. We would get a decent run and then get stuffed. They completely took away the big runs as well.

I do recall that they consistently had 4 or 5 people in middle coverage as well.

Basically they devised a strategy to get Dak thinking he couldn't hit quick slants and option routes underneath because of the congestion, then blitzed him without having to worry about him beating it with said routes. Dak wasn't audibling to beat the blitz because they had him thinking they'd drop into coverage. One particular play in the 2nd quarter sees Dak about to pull the trigger on a presnap hot route only to have the DE drop into the throwing lane and he pulls back mid-throwing motion.

They got a rookie to play like a rookie and doubt himself. What's interesting is late in the game when they were blitzing more the middle was WIDE open. On our last drive, on either first or second down they blitzed the safety and the opposite safety was in a high cover 1. The corners were 10+ yards off and Dez's defender mistakenly drops into a deep zone instead of playing man, a hot route slant to Dez would have left him with 90 yards and two defenders who were 25 yards downfield between him and the end zone.

 

[eyedoc]

This is indeed strength against strength. I don't feel the need to go over the Cowboys depth chart. For what the Giant's bring to bear here is Ourlad's depth chart.

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NYG

They are typically pretty accurate but there are a couple of caveats to keep in mind.

First is that Bromley the starting DT and Apple the starting CB just returned to practice Tuesday coming off knee injuries. It will be interesting to see what kind of shape they are in.

If Bromley cannot go then 2nd round pick Thomlinson will start. He may start anyway but from what I have been reading he had not beaten out Bromley before the injury.

With Apple, the Giants have one of the best CB corps in the league. He and Jenkins start with DRC coming in on the nickel. Without him the CB face an issue that is the same across the board with the defense: poor depth.

One possible way to exploit this is single back sets with 4 pass receiving threats on the los. Brice Butler against their dimeback is a good matchup. If you can get the dime guy on someone higher on our depth chart than it is that much better.

The LB corps is not impressive at all. That makes the matchup with the DL critical. If LC and the RG can handle the undertackle, either Bromley or Thomlinson, and JPP then we can put a lot of pressure on the the LB. I like our chances. Last year the combo of Hankins and Harrison everything our interior OL could handle. IF Hankins replacement cannot do as well we will be able to get onto the LB and run the ball.

If we can run the ball and keep the defense on the field then the Giants will be in a pickle. If you look at the defense with the exception of DT, the depth is mostly UDFA and late round draft picks. Even at DT its only 1 deep. This bodes well if we can sustain drives and either wear the starters out or force a rotation.

Landon Collins can wreck a game if he is allowed to freelance. If we can get him in the box and selling out to stop the run then that takes away his ability to buzz routes. It may corral our running game but then we can go over the top.

Notable Matchups:

Zach Martin vs Damon Harrison: two of the best in the league going head to head.

LC vs JPP: This is Collins first test of the season. Penalties are a concern but LC has been improving steadily. If he can set that edge then we have a good chance of running the ball and controlling the game.

Dez vs Giants corners. Dez was contained last year. Dak didn't have a good rapport and he had difficulty getting away from Jenkins. Hopefully Linehan can move him around and get more favorable matchups. I would like to see Dez test Apples injury and see where that is at.

Zeke against Giant's LB. Last season the Cowboys never involved Zeke much in the passing game beyond the screen and dump off game. This season has seen him get more involved with wheel routes hitches and actual routes being run. With Collin's hands full with Witten and Beasley, Zeke will see matchups with Kennard and the Giant's LB. It's a mismatch.

Dak and Giants deep coverage. Last season, the GIants brought Collins down into the box to help stop the run and take away the intermediate routes that were the staple of Dak's game. They all but dared him to go over the top. He struggled mightily only throwing downfield a couple of time and even then he was throwing into coverage. I expect more of the same from Spagnuolo until Dak shows he can beat the scheme.

So that is how I see that side of the ball against the GMen. If we can run the ball then we are going to score points. If not there will be a lot of pressure on Dak and his receivers to get the ball downfield and open things up. There are favorable matchups to be had.

Thanks as always for your astute breakdown of the matchups in Sunday's game. Are you picking our boys to win this time. I myself think that we prevail in a one score game. Again thanks for taking your time to help me better understand the matchups. Go Cowboys

 

[TWOK11]

It's also worth mentioning that Dak missed an easy TD to Beasley on the last drive in our first game against the Giants. The high safety rotated away from him and the corner passed off the vertical route expecting safety help. Beasley would have walk in from the 30 without a defender in camera view.

So essentially both games could have ended with last minute long TD passes due to blown coverages and we would have finished 16-0 (assuming we give the Philly game a legit go in this scenario). It's crazy how fine the line in this game is.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thanks as always for your astute breakdown of the matchups in Sunday's game. Are you picking our boys to win this time. I myself think that we prevail in a one score game. Again thanks for taking your time to help me better understand the matchups. Go Cowboys

If OBJ doesn't play I don't think they can score enough points to win. If he does I don't know. If Eli continues his downward spiral then I don't think they will be able to score points.

I think we will do a better job scoring points with the evolution of Prescott's game.

We're at home. I would pick us to win.

 

[Trouty]

If OBJ doesn't play I don't think they can score enough points to win. If he does I don't know. If Eli continues his downward spiral then I don't think they will be able to score points.

I think we will do a better job scoring points with the evolution of Prescott's game.

We're at home. I would pick us to win.

I pick us too, brother. If we score over a hundred, and I think we will (and keeping the Giants to a negative point total), free Whataburgers on me!

 

[TWOK11]

Thanks as always for your astute breakdown of the matchups in Sunday's game. Are you picking our boys to win this time. I myself think that we prevail in a one score game. Again thanks for taking your time to help me better understand the matchups. Go Cowboys

For all their weapons at receiver, the Giants offense isn't particularly good. Eli's decline in velocity, their poor OL and that terrible rushing attack makes th very one dimensional: They are confined to consistently passing the ball with short and intermediate throws. Towards the end of last season their offense was essentially getting the ball to OBJ on slant routes and hoping he broke it. If he doesn't play, we will probably blow them out. Let's not forget, our much maligned defense shut them down in the Meadowlands last year.

If he plays, they may do some damage to our young secondary. The idea of Awuzie and Lewis getting isolated 1 on 1 with him is concerning, and rest assured they will do all they can to force those matchups as much as possible if available.

 

[TheHerd]

Great stuff. Post more.

Yeah I remember that as well. We would get a decent run and then get stuffed. They completely took away the big runs as well.

I do recall that they consistently had 4 or 5 people in middle coverage as well.

While it's true that we had a lot of 3rd and longs, none of those were cause exclusively by Zeke stuffs. Every single time we had a 3rd and more than 3, we passed (or tried to pass) on second down.

And here are Zeke's first down runs: 3,9,4,15,4,2,-1,14, 4,3,0,2,4,4,-1,2.

Not great, but not awful, especially at the start. What's in there to glean is 16 times they ran on 1st down (out of 25 1-10 plays, but three of those were end of half/game so no choice). So 16 out of 22 runs on first down when there was a choice to do either. Can you say predictable? Especially if you look at those 1st down carries, the sledding got tougher at the end. At the start, Spags played it relatively straight as our game plan wasn't totally exposed yet. But as it became clear we weren't going to pass, the Giants brought 8, and sometimes 9, into run support since we were so predictable and the Cowboy coaches and/or Dak stubbornly refused to get out of the run. I do think the weather had something to do with it - Dak never looked comfortable with the cold.

If we insist on jamming Zeke into those fronts again Sunday night, we'll probably see the same result, but my solid expectation is that we'll do a much better job of mixing things up and the Giants won't be teeing off on the run as much on first down.

 

[TWOK11]

Running into 8 man fronts isn't in and of itself the problem, we did it successfully against multiple teams because frankly our offensive line is incredible and we have three good run blocking TEs. We ate up GB's 8 man box in the second half at Lambeau. In fact part of the reason we were so successful is most teams couldn't force us to pass consistently because they couldn't stop us even with a loaded box.

The issue is that NY's 8 man boxes are a lot more talented than most.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

While it's true that we had a lot of 3rd and longs, none of those were cause exclusively by Zeke stuffs. Every single time we had a 3rd and more than 3, we passed (or tried to pass) on second down.

And here are Zeke's first down runs: 3,9,4,15,4,2,-1,14, 4,3,0,2,4,4,-1,2.

Not great, but not awful, especially at the start. What's in there to glean is 16 times they ran on 1st down (out of 25 1-10 plays, but three of those were end of half/game so no choice). So 16 out of 22 runs on first down when there was a choice to do either. Can you say predictable? Especially if you look at those 1st down carries, the sledding got tougher at the end. At the start, Spags played it relatively straight as our game plan wasn't totally exposed yet. But as it became clear we weren't going to pass, the Giants brought 8, and sometimes 9, into run support since we were so predictable and the Cowboy coaches and/or Dak stubbornly refused to get out of the run. I do think the weather had something to do with it - Dak never looked comfortable with the cold.

If we insist on jamming Zeke into those fronts again Sunday night, we'll probably see the same result, but my solid expectation is that we'll do a much better job of mixing things up and the Giants won't be teeing off on the run as much on first down.

While I don't disagree with this I don't think you can discount that Dak struggled to make reads. He was consistently pulling the ball down and throwing into coverage when he did drop back to pass.

 

[jobberone]

Good thread people. Dak has to be able to pass if they sell out on the run which I expect them to do. They will try the same recipe. Look for Witten to have a big game along with Beas and maybe Switzer. I'm hoping Dez can beat his coverage. If he gets 1-2 TDs then it's all over with.

 

[TheHerd]

While I don't disagree with this I don't think you can discount that Dak struggled to make reads. He was consistently pulling the ball down and throwing into coverag8e when he did drop back to pass.

Cant disagree with you about Dak in that game. It seemed very uncharacteristic of him at that point in the season, so I attributed some of it to the weather.

Being from the Boston area, I have seen how this crap weather can affect southerners before they are acclimated. Which is why I knew the game at the Giants this year would be scheduled later in the year.

 

[NYNY]

This is indeed strength against strength. I don't feel the need to go over the Cowboys depth chart. For what the Giant's bring to bear here is Ourlad's depth chart.

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NYG

They are typically pretty accurate but there are a couple of caveats to keep in mind.

First is that Bromley the starting DT and Apple the starting CB just returned to practice Tuesday coming off knee injuries. It will be interesting to see what kind of shape they are in.

If Bromley cannot go then 2nd round pick Thomlinson will start. He may start anyway but from what I have been reading he had not beaten out Bromley before the injury.

With Apple, the Giants have one of the best CB corps in the league. He and Jenkins start with DRC coming in on the nickel. Without him the CB face an issue that is the same across the board with the defense: poor depth.

One possible way to exploit this is single back sets with 4 pass receiving threats on the los. Brice Butler against their dimeback is a good matchup. If you can get the dime guy on someone higher on our depth chart than it is that much better.

The LB corps is not impressive at all. That makes the matchup with the DL critical. If LC and the RG can handle the undertackle, either Bromley or Thomlinson, and JPP then we can put a lot of pressure on the the LB. I like our chances. Last year the combo of Hankins and Harrison everything our interior OL could handle. IF Hankins replacement cannot do as well we will be able to get onto the LB and run the ball.

If we can run the ball and keep the defense on the field then the Giants will be in a pickle. If you look at the defense with the exception of DT, the depth is mostly UDFA and late round draft picks. Even at DT its only 1 deep. This bodes well if we can sustain drives and either wear the starters out or force a rotation.

Landon Collins can wreck a game if he is allowed to freelance. If we can get him in the box and selling out to stop the run then that takes away his ability to buzz routes. It may corral our running game but then we can go over the top.

Notable Matchups:

Zach Martin vs Damon Harrison: two of the best in the league going head to head.

LC vs JPP: This is Collins first test of the season. Penalties are a concern but LC has been improving steadily. If he can set that edge then we have a good chance of running the ball and controlling the game.

Dez vs Giants corners. Dez was contained last year. Dak didn't have a good rapport and he had difficulty getting away from Jenkins. Hopefully Linehan can move him around and get more favorable matchups. I would like to see Dez test Apples injury and see where that is at.

Zeke against Giant's LB. Last season the Cowboys never involved Zeke much in the passing game beyond the screen and dump off game. This season has seen him get more involved with wheel routes hitches and actual routes being run. With Collin's hands full with Witten and Beasley, Zeke will see matchups with Kennard and the Giant's LB. It's a mismatch.

Dak and Giants deep coverage. Last season, the GIants brought Collins down into the box to help stop the run and take away the intermediate routes that were the staple of Dak's game. They all but dared him to go over the top. He struggled mightily only throwing downfield a couple of time and even then he was throwing into coverage. I expect more of the same from Spagnuolo until Dak shows he can beat the scheme.

So that is how I see that side of the ball against the GMen. If we can run the ball then we are going to score points. If not there will be a lot of pressure on Dak and his receivers to get the ball downfield and open things up. There are favorable matchups to be had.

You got so much wrong.

DT - Thomas will start if Bromley can't go. The rookie will get some reps, but on passing downs Wynn or JPP may go to the middle.

Jenkins will be on Dez. Apple had a low ankle sprain a few weeks ago. Should be fine.

LB - you didn't watch Goodson during the pre-season did you?

You won't see Collins on Witten a ton. He's a in the box safety he's there to tackle Zeke as he tries to find a hole after snacks closes it up. Witten isn't that much of a threat. He gets no YAC. The pass rush of the Giants will help limit the Dallas passing game. Vernon had his way with Tryon in both games last year. JPP has upped his game and should trash your RT. JPP &Vernon are also the best run stopping DE duo in the league.

Also Dallas fans are overestimating Hankins. He was a good player but not an impact player.

Giants match-up very well against Dallas.

 

[TWOK11]

Witten isn't that much of a threat.

He has more catches against the New York Giants than any other player in NFL history. He has PERSONALLY beaten the Giants three times in his career with game winning receptions.

I hope your players have the same opinion as you.

Vernon had his way with Tryon in both games last year

Vernon had 0 sacks against Dallas last year and two of his five worst games based on advanced metrics were against Dallas. Tyron graded out better in both games.

Also Dallas fans are overestimating Hankins. He was a good player but not an impact player.

Hankins was the second highest rated lineman in the NFL against the run last year and played the overwhelming majority of meaningful snaps.

I generally don't like embarrassing people, but you came here asking for it.

 

[xwalker]

You got so much wrong.

DT - Thomas will start if Bromley can't go. The rookie will get some reps, but on passing downs Wynn or JPP may go to the middle.

Jenkins will be on Dez. Apple had a low ankle sprain a few weeks ago. Should be fine.

LB - you didn't watch Goodson during the pre-season did you?

You won't see Collins on Witten a ton. He's a in the box safety he's there to tackle Zeke as he tries to find a hole after snacks closes it up. Witten isn't that much of a threat. He gets no YAC. The pass rush of the Giants will help limit the Dallas passing game. Vernon had his way with Tryon in both games last year. JPP has upped his game and should trash your RT. JPP &Vernon are also the best run stopping DE duo in the league.

Also Dallas fans are overestimating Hankins. He was a good player but not an impact player.

Giants match-up very well against Dallas.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

You got so much wrong.

DT - Thomas will start if Bromley can't go. The rookie will get some reps, but on passing downs Wynn or JPP may go to the middle.

Jenkins will be on Dez. Apple had a low ankle sprain a few weeks ago. Should be fine.

LB - you didn't watch Goodson during the pre-season did you?

You won't see Collins on Witten a ton. He's a in the box safety he's there to tackle Zeke as he tries to find a hole after snacks closes it up. Witten isn't that much of a threat. He gets no YAC. The pass rush of the Giants will help limit the Dallas passing game. Vernon had his way with Tryon in both games last year. JPP has upped his game and should trash your RT. JPP &Vernon are also the best run stopping DE duo in the league.

Also Dallas fans are overestimating Hankins. He was a good player but not an impact player.

Giants match-up very well against Dallas.

@FuzzyLumpkins, destroy this poser.

 

[TWOK11]

I especially like his comment on Hankins not being impactful. He's literally trying to argue that losing one of the best run defenders in the entire league won't have much of an impact against the best running team with the best OL in football.

And even with Hankins, Zeke still ran for 110 yards in the Meadowlands. Not spectacular but solid.