Going on record....and then hoping both succeed

[Chuck 54]

With all the talk about the Spencer franchise tag and will we trade him or sign him, was it smart or foolish, I'll go on record with the opinion that it was necessary and that perhaps the team is more concerned about Ware than Spencer.

I think Spencer will have a better transition to DE than Ware will have. I worry about Ware's style, relying much more on speed and running around guys than the power game, and I worry about his ability to hold up physically at a position that will require he tie up more often with the OT on most plays.

Ware was clearly the better pass rusher from OLB, and he will still occasionally beat the OT off the ball 1-1, but I think he will struggle to maintain a presence vs the run with his style of pass rush, and his injury history with neck and back in recent years won't be helped at 4-3 DE.

I hope I'm wrong and they both excel, but I'm more worried about Ware than I am Spencer at DE.

 

[xwalker]

In Kiffin's defense the Strong-Side DE and the Weak-Side DE are very different. The Weak-Side DE is an almost identical position to Ware's Weak-Side OLB position last year, just without the 7% of snaps in coverage.

Kiffin told the players to watch Seattle's defense because his would be similar. Their Weak-Side DEs are:
Chris Clemons 6'3 254
Bruce Irvin 6'2-1/2 248

Ware was listed at 6'4, 254 last year.

The odd fit is Spencer at Strong-Side DE. Teams with Kiffin type defenses had the following Strong-Side DEs:

Chicago 2012:
Corey Wootton 6'6 270
Israel Idonije 6'6 275

Seattle 2012:
Red Bryant 6'4 323

Tampa 2008 (Kiffin's final year):
Kevin Carter 6-5 290

Spencer was listed as 6-3, 250 last year and 6-3, 261 in 2011.

 

[TheFinisher]

Ware is basically a carbon copy of Simeon Rice, who was a monster at RE for Kiffin. I see no reason to worry there.

 

[TheFinisher]

In Kiffin's defense the Strong-Side DE and the Weak-Side DE are very different. The Weak-Side DE is an almost identical position to Ware's Weak-Side OLB position last year, just without the 7% of snaps in coverage.

Kiffin told the players to watch Seattle's defense because his would be similar. Their Weak-Side DEs are:
Chris Clemons 6'3 254
Bruce Irvin 6'2-1/2 248

Ware was listed at 6'4, 254 last year.

The odd fit is Spencer at Strong-Side DE. Teams with Kiffin type defenses had the following Strong-Side DEs:

Chicago 2012:
Corey Wootton 6'6 270
Israel Idonije 6'6 275

Seattle 2012:
Red Bryant 6'4 323

Tampa 2008 (Kiffin's final year):
Kevin Carter 6-5 290

Spencer was listed as 6-3, 250 last year and 6-3, 261 in 2011.

The Colts were a Kiffin-inspired defense too, and essentially had 2 rush ends in Freeney and Mathis. With Spencer and Ware, we're being designed more in that direction.

 

[visionary]

The Colts were a Kiffin-inspired defense too, and essentially had 2 rush ends in Freeney and Mathis. With Spencer and Ware, we're being designed more in that direction.

i hope not

that defense was built on speed to play from ahead, which they consistently did because of manning

we scored 10 points in the first half (i think) once all of last season

 

[TheFinisher]

i hope not

that defense was built on speed to play from ahead, which they consistently did because of manning

we scored 10 points in the first half (i think) once all of last season

Not saying I agree with it, just noting it seems to be the direction we're headed in.

 

[john van brocklin]

With all the talk about the Spencer franchise tag and will we trade him or sign him, was it smart or foolish, I'll go on record with the opinion that it was necessary and that perhaps the team is more concerned about Ware than Spencer.

I think Spencer will have a better transition to DE than Ware will have. I worry about Ware's style, relying much more on speed and running around guys than the power game, and I worry about his ability to hold up physically at a position that will require he tie up more often with the OT on most plays.

Ware was clearly the better pass rusher from OLB, and he will still occasionally beat the OT off the ball 1-1, but I think he will struggle to maintain a presence vs the run with his style of pass rush, and his injury history with neck and back in recent years won't be helped at 4-3 DE.

I hope I'm wrong and they both excel, but I'm more worried about Ware than I am Spencer at DE.

They both played DE in College, so I think both will do well.

 

[jazzcat22]

I think they will be fine, as our CB's. S is still the concern. Church coming off a serious injury. Can he be as good as he was starting to look like he was in game 1 last year.

Now with Sensbaugh out. He wasn't great but he was also pretty decent. And the team still so high on Matt Johnson, can he be the answer.

Need a DT too. I think we can be fine at LB. Albright starting to look better, and hope they will re-sign Sims.

 

[Risen Star]

They both played DE in College, so I think both will do well.

Playing DE in college doesn't equate to success at that position in the pros.

 

[AbeBeta]

They both played DE in College, so I think both will do well.

I took a geology course in college.

I guess that means i would be a good geologist

 

[Stash]

I took a geology course in college.

I guess that means i would be a good geologist

Nice!

 

[Fredd]

Ware is ideal in Kiffin's defense...Spencer is about 90% of what is needed in Kiffin's defense...I think that if specner is on the team (an I hope that he is), then we will be just fine....I also think that Carter will get some snaps on that side of the ball in blitz packages...could be exciting to watch...

 

[mmillman]

I am excited to see Ware and Spencer rush the qb full time instead of the, all too often imo, dropping into pass coverage.

 

[mmillman]

Kiffin told the players to watch Seattle's defense because his would be similar. Their Weak-Side DEs are:
Chris Clemons 6'3 254
Bruce Irvin 6'2-1/2 248

Irvin is small for a DE, I have seen him in person. He doesn't start however and he has elite speed and quickness for a DE.

 

[Stash]

I fear that Spencer's sack numbers will go way down as a DE.

I thought that playing in space benefited a player who does not have great flexibility or many pass-rush moves.

 

[Primetime42]

I took a geology course in college.

I guess that means i would be a good geologist

 

[JPostSam]

With all the talk about the Spencer franchise tag and will we trade him or sign him, was it smart or foolish, I'll go on record with the opinion that it was necessary and that perhaps the team is more concerned about Ware than Spencer.

I think Spencer will have a better transition to DE than Ware will have. I worry about Ware's style, relying much more on speed and running around guys than the power game, and I worry about his ability to hold up physically at a position that will require he tie up more often with the OT on most plays.

Ware was clearly the better pass rusher from OLB, and he will still occasionally beat the OT off the ball 1-1, but I think he will struggle to maintain a presence vs the run with his style of pass rush, and his injury history with neck and back in recent years won't be helped at 4-3 DE.

I hope I'm wrong and they both excel, but I'm more worried about Ware than I am Spencer at DE.

don't know why you'd worry about ware's strength. he has, on several ocassions, knocked 300+ pounders on their keysters.

i, too, worry about ware's injuries. they're starting to pile up. definitely affecting his play.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ware is basically a carbon copy of Simeon Rice, who was a monster at RE for Kiffin. I see no reason to worry there.

Ware is better than Rice.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I took a geology course in college.

I guess that means i would be a good geologist

Are you really equating taking a single course to playing DE for your entire college career?

 

[TheFinisher]

Ware is better than Rice.

Probably, but they're very similar players from a height/weight/speed combo and they used a similar set of pass rush moves, which was what I was referring to.

And I don't think comparing Ware to Rice is a knock on Ware, Rice was the best pass rusher in the league for a while.