Google ditches Windows on security concerns

[YosemiteSam]

The reason they had the security issue in the first place was because they were still using IE6. You can't even get IE6 on any recent version of Windows. So, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

In corporate environments IE6 is still king. Its a fact that all b2b companies must deal with.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

In corporate environments IE6 is still king. Its a fact that all b2b companies must deal with.

IE6 is almost 10 years old now. It blows my mind that at some point in those 10 years, companies couldn't have moved to a later version of IE or at least a competing browser.

 

[Kilyin]

In corporate environments IE6 is still king. Its a fact that all b2b companies must deal with.

Not in the multitude of corporations I deal with. Any company still using IE6 has ignorant/stupid/lazy IT. If it's an issue of backward compatibility, there are workarounds.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Not in the multitude of corporations I deal with. Any company still using IE6 has ignorant/stupid/lazy IT. If it's an issue of backward compatibility, there are workarounds.

Exactly what industry do you work in? I say this because you are clearly in the minority. Large corporations as whole still use IE6. We are a web based on-line trading platform. (think E-Trade, but we only deal with large financial institutions, not the public) Somewhere around 72% of the people that log onto our trading platform still use IE6. 20% use Firefox, and the rest is IE7+.

There is a reason they are still using IE6 and it isn't lazy/stupid/ignorant. Of course, your company probably doesn't deal with governmental regulations, right? (Sarbanes–Oxley, SAS/70, etc)

 

[Kangaroo]

IE6 is almost 10 years old now. It blows my mind that at some point in those 10 years, companies couldn't have moved to a later version of IE or at least a competing browser.

You do not realize how bad vendors are and how slow they move from version to version and how slow companies are to migrate. I been doing this a while now I am currently working in a place where we have a Windows NT server in place yes the OS you can not even call Microsoft up for anymore.

Then it takes staff planning from transition from one application to the other; lets put this in perspective for you I help support 800 windows servers and growing so we have to lifecycle hardware, upgrade OS application upgrades project support, daily maintenance on call and everything else and we have roughly, plus my group is responsible for workstation image we use, testing Workstation Microsoft patches etc and their is a ton more on top of that and we have like 20 people to accomplish a lot of work. Then their is a budget you have to deal with and guess what things do not get done sometimes for years because of money.


Then lets look at the other side we have vendors that have application that that still will not work on IE7 and we are dependent on them for part of the business yea stupid I know.

How long has server 2008 been out and yet trying to get applications installed on server 2008 normal (not even R2) and try 2008x64 I mean I do this quite a bit each day over vendors.


So while Google may be doing this like people stated they are a tech company it is a lot easier and also realize that Google despite all their no Microsoft talk will still have Microsoft OS running in their building in the test environment, and on developer machines etc because they are also a development company and Microsoft makes them a ton of money indirectly.

 

[Kilyin]

Exactly what industry do you work in? I say this because you are clearly in the minority. Large corporations as whole still use IE6. We are a web based on-line trading platform. (think E-Trade, but we only deal with large financial institutions, not the public) Somewhere around 72% of the people that log onto our trading platform still use IE6. 20% use Firefox, and the rest is IE7+.

There is a reason they are still using IE6 and it isn't lazy/stupid/ignorant. Of course, your company probably doesn't deal with governmental regulations, right? (Sarbanes–Oxley, SAS/70, etc)

I do IT for a variety of companies including but not limited to law firms, financial institutions, and insurance agencies. It's a bit ironic that you're trying to justify using an older, more vulnerable browser by bringing up security audits, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I do IT for a variety of companies including but not limited to law firms, financial institutions, and insurance agencies. It's a bit ironic that you're trying to justify using an older, more vulnerable browser by bringing up security audits, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

I'm not justifying ****. I'm telling you how it is.

 

[basstapp]

I'm not justifying ****. I'm telling you how it is.

I work for a hospital system that is about 5,000 people. We use windows xp, IE 6 and we just updated to microsoft office 2007. I agree it is a pain in the *** to get any kind of updated stuff. Number 1 because it takes money, number 2 it takes time and training which nobody has.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

A few years ago I was talking with someone from the state and they had one guy still using windows 3.1. Until a couple of years ago most were using windows 2000. And until one year ago they were using groupwise email system.

Recently they have been getting all new computers and doing updates and switching to outlook express as their default email program.

So NYC's claims seem pretty on par with many of the things I have found when dealing with the state and their computer systems.

Heck even at my work place we have a couple of computers that still have 2000 on them. Of course they are mostly stand by computers with smaller hard drives and memory so we never bothered putting XP on them.

The problem with the state is you have a bunch of employees that are just not computer literate. You also have many employees that once they get used to a system they will fight change. Introducing a new system is so confusing to them that I think many times they just don't want to deal with the hassle. Plus you have the money issues of upgrading things.

 

[Kilyin]

It doesn't take money or training to upgrade IE6. You take a test environment (like a virtual machine), upgrade to 7 or 8, make sure nothing is broken as far as web applications, and then you deploy it with something like WSUS to save time. I'm not seeing the conundrum here. Granted, I'm not an expert on SAS 70 or SOX, but I can't imagine that would cause you to fail an audit. If anything, it seems like if their scans are on the up and up, IE6 would be the browser failing.

 

[YosemiteSam]

It doesn't take money or training to upgrade IE6. You take a test environment (like a virtual machine), upgrade to 7 or 8, make sure nothing is broken as far as web applications, and then you deploy it with something like WSUS to save time. I'm not seeing the conundrum here. Granted, I'm not an expert on SAS 70 or SOX, but I can't imagine that would cause you to fail an audit. If anything, it seems like if their scans are on the up and up, IE6 would be the browser failing.

You are clearly still a young buck in the world of IT and still retain the world conquering attitude. Time will teach you that many things are easier said than done. Especially when you can't control all the variables in the equation.

btw, it's not that IE6 would make you fail SOX or SAS/70, it's the fact that applications exist that only function in IE6 (trust me one this one! Just the way IE handles FTP broke at least 3 applications in my last company in an attempted switch from IE6->IE7.) Many applications written to support these things aren't cheap to replace or "update". (we replaced IE's FTP with WSFTP client, that required re-training of all 350 people at my old company, that wasn't cheap! All because of Microsoft changing how IE worked from IE6 to IE7) Small companies are usually much easier to upgrade than large corporations because there is so much more involved user and application wise. In our case, we are dealing with hundreds of large corporations, so we are pretty much at the mercy of our customers.

Just to show you, it wasn't until January of this year that IE6 got beat out as the most used browser on the planet. Apparently, Windows 7 sales is what took it over the top cause it damn sure wasn't the fact that all large corporations decided to swtich! :laugh2:

 

[SultanOfSix]

This might be some what of a publicity stunt, but is more than that. It's more of an outright attack on Microsoft. Considering that Microsoft has teamed up with Apple to attack Google, I'm not surprised in the least.

So, it's actually a counterattack.

At the very least, Google is accomplishing three goals in doing this. Severally damaging Microsoft, removing Windows products from it's company for security purposes, and finally proving to other companies that dumping Windows even by mega corporations is feasible which is also a form of publicity.

Severely damaging? That's simply hyperbole.

Google has the money and capability to do so. Other mega corporations either don't, or don't see the need to (see the counterattack reference).

 

[Kangaroo]

It doesn't take money or training to upgrade IE6. You take a test environment (like a virtual machine), upgrade to 7 or 8, make sure nothing is broken as far as web applications, and then you deploy it with something like WSUS to save time. I'm not seeing the conundrum here. Granted, I'm not an expert on SAS 70 or SOX, but I can't imagine that would cause you to fail an audit. If anything, it seems like if their scans are on the up and up, IE6 would be the browser failing.

Funny yes it does because at previously stated we have applications that can not run on IE7 oh and for a Hospital it is even harder we have equipment that takes 2-3 years for the government to approve lets not add by the time it is approved it is outdated . Lets not add in the fact if I break certain system patients information can not be access What you see as easy is not; plus you are looking at it from new system yea wait until you have to fix 6 years of previous sins changing it can be even harder because of what they did and by the way you have to keep it all working switch to the new system and have a small window of downtime.

The headaches are endless

 

[Kilyin]

it's the fact that applications exist that only function in IE6 (trust me one this one! Just the way IE handles FTP broke at least 3 applications in my last company in an attempted switch from IE6->IE7.)

I haven't seen any applications that won't run in compatibility mode. I have run into several websites/applications that will just crash the browser in IE6 and only work in 7 or 8. There is no workaround for that aside from updating the browser.

I see your points as well as other people that have replied, but it sounds like to me you tried to just do a live roll out/deploy IE7 without actually testing for problems beforehand.

Hey whatever, it's all good... I'll do my thing, you do yours.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I haven't seen any applications that won't run in compatibility mode. I have run into several websites/applications that will just crash the browser in IE6 and only work in 7 or 8. There is no workaround for that aside from updating the browser.

I see your points as well as other people that have replied, but it sounds like to me you tried to just do a live roll out/deploy IE7 without actually testing for problems beforehand.

Hey whatever, it's all good... I'll do my thing, you do yours.

After 13 years in the field and 10 of that specifically in infrastructure, I think I already know better than that. I seriously doubt a financial institution would hire me if I were prone to making those type of mistakes.

 

[vta]

Personally, I'd like to water board the entire IT Department...
But thats just me.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Personally, I'd like to water board the entire IT Department...
But thats just me.

I'm guessing you work with a BOFH. :laugh2:

 

[Kangaroo]

After 13 years in the field and 10 of that specifically in infrastructure, I think I already know better than that. I seriously doubt a financial institution would hire me if I were prone to making those type of mistakes.

NYC I think he does not grasp the entire structure oh how big companies IT works and how things work and how IT does not always gets to drive what happens in a companies IT.

How you can be dependent on different segments of the IT department that do things their way or having 500 different vendor applications and the scale of issues that occur with that let the young guy think he is going to charge in like that then wait until he gets told no we are not going to VM the desktops because the CEO does not like it or some other reason

 

[Kilyin]

After 13 years in the field and 10 of that specifically in infrastructure, I think I already know better than that. I seriously doubt a financial institution would hire me if I were prone to making those type of mistakes.

Save your credentials for someone who gives a ****. Are you going to post your resume next? Nobody is here to pat you on the back.

You said that upgrading to IE7 broke at least 3 applications at your last company. That would imply to me that not much testing took place beforehand, and it would also imply that you had some involvement in the process since you're in IT.

 

[Kilyin]

NYC I think he does not grasp the entire structure oh how big companies IT works and how things work and how IT does not always gets to drive what happens in a companies IT.

How you can be dependent on different segments of the IT department that do things their way or having 500 different vendor applications and the scale of issues that occur with that let the young guy think he is going to charge in like that then wait until he gets told no we are not going to VM the desktops because the CEO does not like it or some other reason

You two should meet in real life so you can pat yourselves on the back. I don't think you understand the concept of a lab environment broseph. Nobody said to 'VM the desktops'. Maybe you need to learn how to read?