Graziano Mailbag: Could using 2 TE set help Cowboys tackles pass protect better?

[tecolote]

Not upgrading Free when there are cheaper upgrades out there would be stupid. And by the looks of it we are going to go with stupid this year.

 

[Idgit]

The cowboys earnestly tried to run 12 and 21 sets in the first half of games. They were ineffective because the interior OL and RT got 0 push in the run game and the cowboys literally fell behind almost every single game. The only effective offensive set was S11 when Dallas was behind and especially when running no huddle. And, TBH, Phillips and Vickers are better blockers than a rookie TE not known for blocking. So, I wouldn't expect huge improvements based on Escobar. The best chance for improvement comes from Frederick.

Are you just going off of recollection, or is there data somewhere that shows us in the 12s and 21s early and going away from it late when it was ineffective?

 

[ringmaster]

Why do people talk about using 2TEs as some kind of brand new offense? The Cowboys ran 2TE as their base formation in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. We know exactly what a 2TE base offense looks like. Last year was the first and only year where they completely abandoned the 2TE base and switched to S11 (3 wide receivers) as their base formation.

I agree that always ran the 2TE base offense but it didn't pan out as they hoped with Fasano, and MartyB.

We got a small taste in the Steelers game how effective it could be with Hanna, and Witten both had a pretty strong showing in the game as for Gavin, if he's able to catch on to the offense early it will be a nightmare for any defense to handle.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Why do people talk about using 2TEs as some kind of brand new offense? The Cowboys ran 2TE as their base formation in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. We know exactly what a 2TE base offense looks like. Last year was the first and only year where they completely abandoned the 2TE base and switched to S11 (3 wide receivers) as their base formation.

Last year we were already pretty ineffective in the redzone and part of the problem is we had questionable TEs. Now, at least it seems, we have at least 1 HOFer and one huge prospect who is better than our past guys.

Now if we could only get a play caller.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I agree that always ran the 2TE base offense but it didn't pan out as they hoped with Fasano, and MartyB.

We got a small taste in the Steelers game how effective it could be with Hanna, and Witten both had a pretty strong showing in the game as for Gavin, if he's able to catch on to the offense early it will be a nightmare for any defense to handle.

We have some serious talent on the field now with Bryant, Williams, Austin and/or Murray, Witten and Escobar.

Add a FA guard and maybe get a new RT and we're set for years with that kind of youth. I really like Tyron Smiff and Travis Fredricks. We just need to keep plugging away at building that line. Next draft we'll draft OL in rd. 1 as well.

 

[DBOY3141]

We have some serious talent on the field now with Bryant, Williams, Austin and/or Murray, Witten and Escobar.

Add a FA guard and maybe get a new RT and we're set for years with that kind of youth. I really like Tyron Smiff and Travis Fredricks. We just need to keep plugging away at building that line. Next draft we'll draft OL in rd. 1 as well.

Hoping for Brandon Moore to add to the interior line. If Parnell develops, next year will be the draft for DL.

 

[Slamman]

Are you just going off of recollection, or is there data somewhere that shows us in the 12s and 21s early and going away from it late when it was ineffective?

Both. Bob Sturm does an excellent job of breaking down Personnel Groupings every game in what he calls "Decoding Garrett.". For example, this is from the NO game...



Using NO as an example, the cowboys ran 13 plays (7 runs and 6 passes) from traditionally strong run formations (12, 13, 21, and 22). They gained 27 yards on 7 runs. Conversely, the cowboys threw the ball 33 times out of S11 for 281 for a more than respectable 8.5 YPA. In total, the cowboys threw the ball 45 times for 405 yards and ran the ball 11 times for 39 yards.

So, more than anything I'm relying on my recollection of Sturm's data. But, there were about 3 games that did not necessarily fit that mold to a T... @NYG, @ Balt, and @ Philly.

 

[Idgit]

Both. Bob Sturm does an excellent job of breaking down Personnel Groupings every game in what he calls "Decoding Garrett.". For example, this is from the NO game...



Using NO as an example, the cowboys ran 13 plays (7 runs and 6 passes) from traditionally strong run formations (12, 13, 21, and 22). They gained 27 yards on 7 runs. Conversely, the cowboys threw the ball 33 times out of S11 for 281 for a more than respectable 8.5 YPA. In total, the cowboys threw the ball 45 times for 405 yards and ran the ball 11 times for 39 yards.

So, more than anything I'm relying on my recollection of Sturm's data. But, there were about 3 games that did not necessarily fit that mold to a T... @NYG, @ Balt, and @ Philly.

Yeah, I was thinking of the Decoding Garrett stuff, too. It is great. But I hadn't seen a breakdown as to when those sets are used within a game. It probably exists whole-cloth somewhere, and, yeah, it's interesting to look at the sets on a game basis to see what works. We should maybe do that here in the lull before camp--group the Sturm data into similar games and break out the performance of the various position groups.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Even if Free and Smith were the starting OT's this season, their pass protection would be better than in 2012.

Smith simply because after his few rough games to start the season he did improve. I think he's going to be a top-16 tackle.

If Free is the starter at RT and if Parnell is still breathing down his neck, Free will be better than the 66th rated OT... how much better? Don't know. But he'll be better, and overall the pass protection of the tackle unit will be better.

If Smith is no better then top 16, I will be very, very disappointed.

 

[NextGenBoys]

Healthy players play better also and wil make a difference this year.

Injuries are a part of the NFL. We will have players injured again. That won't change.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We have some serious talent on the field now with Bryant, Williams, Austin and/or Murray, Witten and Escobar.

Add a FA guard and maybe get a new RT and we're set for years with that kind of youth. I really like Tyron Smiff and Travis Fredricks. We just need to keep plugging away at building that line. Next draft we'll draft OL in rd. 1 as well.

You like him so much you don't know how to spell his name?

 

[Idgit]

Injuries are a part of the NFL. We will have players injured again. That won't change.

The number of injured players will almost certainly change. And hopefully they're not going to be multiple injuries at the same positions again like we had at C and ILB and S last year. It's one thing to win games with your backups. It's another to try to win them with your backups' backups' backups.

 

[Kristen82]

You like him so much you don't know how to spell his name?

Lol, "Smiff". Sounds like a pirate...

 

[JohnsKey19]

Everything is speculative until week 1, so we'll have to wait and see. My opinion is we only see a slight difference in how we use our personnel groupings. Escobar will contribute some but this is still a team that will rely heavily on 3WR sets to take advantage of its talent at that position. Not expecting much of a difference...