Great read explaining the different philosophies between Rob Ryan and Monte Kiffin

[jobberone]

I don't think Ryan had a decent shot with the injuries last year. In fact I'd say he did a good job with what he had.

My main problem with our Ds of late is the lack of turnovers

 

[Everlastingxxx]

I like complex offenses and defenses. I like schemes and deception, all that good stuff. I like it and i think it works when you have “smart” players. Wade was fired because everyone knew what the Cowboys were going to do. You knew when they were going to blitz. It was predictable. I am not a fan of the Kiffin. I think his train has pasted and should have retired. I think this scheme is outdated and new ones have come along and improved on it. It’s probably more corner friendly, why Brandon is on board. There may be more turnovers and his first year might be alright. In the end, good quarterbacks and teams that commit to the run will do whatever they want to this scheme.

 

[speedkilz88]

I like complex offenses and defenses. I like schemes and deception, all that good stuff. I like it and i think it works when you have “smart” players. Wade was fired because everyone knew what the Cowboys were going to do. You knew when they were going to blitz. It was predictable. I am not a fan of the Kiffin. I think his train has pasted and should have retired. I think this scheme is outdated and new ones have come along and improved on it. It’s probably more corner friendly, why Brandon is on board. There may be more turnovers and his first year might be alright. In the end, good quarterbacks and teams that commit to the run will do whatever they want to this scheme.

Bears and even Seahawks run similar schemes.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Bears and even Seahawks run similar schemes.

Those teams were only 3rd and 1st in the NFL in points allowed.

C'mon, couldn't you do better than to offer up those two bottom-feeders?

Next time don't bring a knife to a gun-fight pal.

 

[Idgit]

Bears and even Seahawks run similar schemes.

I hope we get Bears and Seahawks, too, instead of something less than that. But the 'something less' is what I was concerned about when Kiffin was hired.

Having Marinelli in the fold makes me feel a lot better on that front. Stylistically, the defense is exactly what I wanted to see, but I won't be very comfortable about whether or not we got it right until I see it working, week one, against the Giants.

I was *no* fan of Rob Ryan's, but he had the healthy defense playing really well early this year before the injuries piled up.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Bears and even Seahawks run similar schemes.

They both have won alot of Super Bowls.

 

[Zordon]

The assassination of Rob Ryan and the 180 turn many of you have made the last few months was predictable but nonetheless has been hilarious to read.

 

[Idgit]

The assassination of Rob Ryan and the 180 turn many of you have made the last few months was predictable but nonetheless has been hilarious to read.

I was almost (but not quite) alone at one point verbally hating the guy. I was never a fan, but he did have his unit playing well last season early, when they were healthy.

But not liking a guy who was eventually dismissed for underperforming expectations is hardly unusual. Especially when the guy has a mouth on him like Rob Ryan does.

 

[JohnsKey19]

Remember Wade was also a "line'em up and let's go" type of coach too. That's what made the hiring of Ryan and his style so appealing to Cowboys nation. Now we're going back to the more basic approach again. I like the hire of Kiffin but we'll see...

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I tried to read it, but he lost me when he started intersecting football with the military mumbo jumbo.

I'll pass.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Right.

You get a positive spin from those sites. I'm not interested in spin. I want truth.

If the Cowboys had fired Kiffin and replaced him with Ryan, this guy would have found a similarly pointless military example to point at as to why that means it's all sunshine and rainbows from here.

He's a fan. This is his sales pitch. Go Cowboys and stuff.

I'm on record as being against the scheme switch. I praised the move to the 3-4 years ago. I praised the Ryan addition when it was made. I can't pretend I think differently simply because the team decided to go back to what I believe is an inferior scheme and being coached by a guy who's an all timer but may have lost his mind.

To me this move just serves as scapegoating and distraction from the real issues. This year it was Ryan. Next year it'll be Garrett. Neither was or is why this team can't compete.

Well I can actually agree with most of this post, although its obvious your pointing the finger at Jerry....again.

I really believe the switch was just a smoke screen to get our attention away from the problems of the team. Had to have a change after we have seen year after year of heartbreaking failures....and since we couldn't really change anything big, why not try to sell a scheme change on D.

The only difference between what I'm saying and what you are RS, is that I'm not taking this season as a far gone conclusion that it will go bad and be JG's fault....or that it will go bad at all. With some health, this is a good football team, and anything can happen unless you have a crystal ball and it always says something bad.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Right.

You get a positive spin from those sites. I'm not interested in spin. I want truth.

If the Cowboys had fired Kiffin and replaced him with Ryan, this guy would have found a similarly pointless military example to point at as to why that means it's all sunshine and rainbows from here.

He's a fan. This is his sales pitch. Go Cowboys and stuff.

I'm on record as being against the scheme switch. I praised the move to the 3-4 years ago. I praised the Ryan addition when it was made. I can't pretend I think differently simply because the team decided to go back to what I believe is an inferior scheme and being coached by a guy who's an all timer but may have lost his mind.

To me this move just serves as scapegoating and distraction from the real issues. This year it was Ryan. Next year it'll be Garrett. Neither was or is why this team can't compete.

These are my thoughts to a tee, including the 4-3 being an inferior scheme. I like Ryan and felt like he was a scapegoat last year. He definitely wasn't the problem and I thought he was one of the few bright spots on our coaching staff, which is why he went to New Orleans to coach with Payton, a much superior coach to Ronald McDonald.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Remember Wade was also a "line'em up and let's go" type of coach too. That's what made the hiring of Ryan and his style so appealing to Cowboys nation. Now we're going back to the more basic approach again. I like the hire of Kiffin but we'll see...

I can be won over if Kiffin gets them to play sound defense, cause some turnovers and play for 4 quarters. I do believe Lee and Carter can play in any scheme. Lee can be a pro-bowler next season if he can just stay healthy.

 

[jobberone]

Teams can run on the Tampa 2 and Kiffin and Marinelli know this. Which is why they are allegedly running a Seattle variant/hybrid. The NFL long ago figured out how to throw on the Tampa 2 but there are things you can do about that to protect against a WCO. We'll see. It all comes down to execution and recognition.

 

[bayeslife]

They both have won alot of Super Bowls.

Weak.

They haven't won Superbowls, but right now I'm looking for wins in January first, something those two teams are good at.

 

[jobberone]

We switched defenses and hired Kiffin and Marinelli primarily because this team has sucked at creating TOs for awhile. Also they felt they could generate more pressure with the 4-3 getting both Spencer and Ware rushing more plays. They may feel their secondary is better suited to Kiffin's schemes.

We'll see but they didn't go to all this trouble to blow smoke or create a diversion. Good Grief!

 

[rwalters31]

Well I can actually agree with most of this post, although its obvious your pointing the finger at Jerry....again.

I really believe the switch was just a smoke screen to get our attention away from the problems of the team. Had to have a change after we have seen year after year of heartbreaking failures....and since we couldn't really change anything big, why not try to sell a scheme change on D.

The only difference between what I'm saying and what you are RS, is that I'm not taking this season as a far gone conclusion that it will go bad and be JG's fault....or that it will go bad at all. With some health, this is a good football team, and anything can happen unless you have a crystal ball and it always says something bad.

Deep Freeze, I like where your heads at. The only issue I have is the crystal ball comment. I believe that the math adds up to identifying the problems that plaque this team. One issue is the injures that we can all see but have no solution to, the other is the trench warfare that we won back in the 90s but the GM fails to understand now. Sometimes 2+2 does add up to 4.

Sorry about the trench warfare comment.

 

[Zordon]

I was almost (but not quite) alone at one point verbally hating the guy. I was never a fan, but he did have his unit playing well last season early, when they were healthy.

But not liking a guy who was eventually dismissed for underperforming expectations is hardly unusual. Especially when the guy has a mouth on him like Rob Ryan does.

That mouth was a attractive trait to many just a few months ago and last year.

Plus if we're allowed to give injuries as an excuse for the overall team's performance and ultimately Jason Garrett's performance then why didn't Ryan deserve the same? Unless there is something we don't know behind the scenes, then I think the guy got a raw deal and people are just throwing him under the bus now to make themselves feel better about the future.

Also Idgit, I realize you are one of the few who has remained consistent on Ryan.

 

[kevm3]

Rob Ryan wasn't the problem last year. When most of his players were healthy, he had a top ten defense. Let's not even factor all the injuries. How about we talk about how the offense would be hard pressed to score in the first half of games. The fact that games were still in reach spoke a lot about the defense.

It'll be interesting to see where the defense goes this year, but if that offense doesn't start putting points on the board early, we will look a lot like we did last season.

 

[Alexander]

Bears and even Seahawks run similar schemes.

Similar but not the same.

We are certainly further away from the Seahawks, at least what they ran last season. They use different concepts that we appear to be interested in. They believe in waving a two/three deep defensive line with a strong centerfielder pairing with heavy press coverage with big cornerbacks.

I think if Kiffin tries to do this, it will difficult to do successfully as we do not have the free safety, nor the defensive line depth they had.

It is nice for Kiffin to say "watch them, that is what we will do". Now, it is what we will try until it is realized that we simply do not have the personnel types to make it work.

This like it is becoming far more in line with what Chicago did. Similar defensive construction, with a good starting line (little depth), good linebackers and average safeties at best. We will probably press the corners more than Chicago, but their strength was crisp execution and getting turnovers. That is the key.