Greg Ellis Thread (Repost?)

[windward]

I can't recall another player who 's come back from such a career threatening injury and been as effective so fast. Especially at a position where pushing off with power and speed is everything.

It ended Dan Marino's career and he never even moved in the pocket.

The year after Takeo blew his out he was a shell of his former self. The Bills just let him walk because they felt he was doomed to be average. He's bounced back with the Eagles but it took him well over two years.

Marino played six more seasons after his achilles injury in 1993.

 

[tunahelper]

You think Ware has anything to do with Ellis getting those sacks?

He doesnt get a pass for his B.S. games he played.

 

[Wood]

Greg has played well...but Wade attacking scheme and Ware have something to do with Ellis sack total. The beauty is....I see Ellis playing at high level for a few more years because Spencer can rotate with him. Just wait until next year when Spencer, Ware and Ellis have a year under their belt with new scheme...they will be virtually unstoppable.

 

[Crown Royal]

Lot of people missing the point of the thread. I, too, complained about his whining and just wanted him to come and play. Lots of people even had founded question about whether he could come back and still be as effective.

It's the people who said he was NEVER all that good, just average, who have crow to eat. He had long been the only dynamic passrusher on the exterior line (LaRoi was good, but that doesn't really have much effect on an end), and is now made better by not being the only player to plan against.

 

[Rack]

Lot of people missing the point of the thread. I, too, complained about his whining and just wanted him to come and play. Lots of people even had founded question about whether he could come back and still be as effective.

It's the people who said he was NEVER all that good, just average, who have crow to eat. He had long been the only dynamic passrusher on the exterior line (LaRoi was good, but that doesn't really have much effect on an end), and is now made better by not being the only player to plan against.

And that was a completely legitimate concern.


And he WAS always just "average" before this season. Obviously the scheme had A LOT to do with that.


Go back and search posts I've made about Mike Zimmer and you'll see me make comment like "Zimmers makes good players average, average players bad, and bad players horrible" or something to that effect. Obviously he did as much to Greg Ellis. I'm just glad Ellis didn't have any lasting effects of Zimmeritis.

Remember Roy Williams as a rookie? I think he does - so far - have a lasting effect of Zimmeritis. He's not NEARLY as bad as people make him out to be, but he obviously isn't the same player he was as a rookie. Zimmer is a HUGE reason because of that.


How many of our early round defensive "Busts" would of been pretty good football players if not for Mike Zimmer?

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Just an FYI to everyone who has spent the last couple of seasons calling Ellis 'average' and not really worth keeping.

He has killed the monkey on his back with 10.5 sacks already this season (and recall that he didn't really start until late this year).

He is currently .5 sacks away from the league leader, Kampman.

I guess, after all, we DO need him. Alexander? Anyone? My normally vegetarian self has some crow baking in the oven.

Nice try but getting double digit sacks in your tenth season in the league doesn't excuse the fact he couldn't do it in his first 9 seasons. At the very least, he should have done this earlier in his career. He was the 8th overall pick and he just now got double digit sacks. There is no crow to be had. You are a moron for even bringing this up.

And you are missing the point entirely. No one said he was just average. Those are your words not ours. Everyone said he was a very good player but not worth the 8th pick. Would you draft a player with the 8th overall pick knowing in advance that he wouldn't register double digit sacks until his 10th season in the league....no I didn't think so.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Greg Ellis has been a monster...

 

[Crown Royal]

Nice try but getting double digit sacks in your tenth season in the league doesn't excuse the fact he couldn't do it in his first 9 seasons. At the very least, he should have done this earlier in his career. He was the 8th overall pick and he just now got double digit sacks. There is no crow to be had. You are a moron for even bringing this up.

And you are missing the point entirely. No one said he was just average. Those are your words not ours. Everyone said he was a very good player but not worth the 8th pick. Would you draft a player with the 8th overall pick knowing in advance that he wouldn't register double digit sacks until his 10th season in the league....no I didn't think so.

That's completely untrue, if you'd like for me to do a search and find the posts, let me know and I will do so.


As far as the prior paragraph, still not correct. Even consistently obtaining 8 sacks is slightly above average, the average NFL end doesn't do that well. And people can scream 'scheme' all they want, but when another pass rusher was added to this team, Ellis went off. It happened last year pre-injury, even WITH Zimmer here, and it is happening now again in full force.

 

[Alexander]

I guess, after all, we DO need him. Alexander? Anyone? My normally vegetarian self has some crow baking in the oven.

I'll give him credit. And I'll happily eat the crow. He's done well and his recovery has been remarkable.

But as far as "need", I don't believe Spencer was an exceptional step down, particularly in pass coverage. He never received much of an opportunity.

Lost in all the appreciation for Greg Ellis, of course, is the step up that Demarcus Ware has taken. He no longer has the hot and cold spells he had in his first two years. He's been a consistent performer every single game, Ellis or not.

 

[Alexander]

Shame on those that made all those statements. I saw lots of posters make ugly comments about Ellis...but now all is quiet. They are probably busy defending Roy Williams coverage skills i guess. Just man up, or woman up and say you were wrong.

As soon as those hysterics who kept saying Terrell Owens was not worth the bother, I'd be happy to.

 

[superpunk]

He's playing very well this year. He takes well to that strongside Merriman position. He spent most of the beginning of the year getting DeMarcus' cleanup sacks, but recently he's been shredding.

I would question how that proves that claims of him being average in years past were false, though. If something were to suddenly click with Julius Jones, and he went for 1500 and 12 TDs, would that change analysis of his play in prior seasons? No.

 

[Crown Royal]

I'll give him credit. And I'll happily eat the crow. He's done well and his recovery has been remarkable.

But as far as "need", I don't believe Spencer was an exceptional step down, particularly in pass coverage. He never received much of an opportunity.

Lost in all the appreciation for Greg Ellis, of course, is the step up that Demarcus Ware has taken. He no longer has the hot and cold spells he had in his first two years. He's been a consistent performer every single game, Ellis or not.

And I haven't lost focus on Ware. I still think he is the better all around linebacker, and probably a notch better pass rusher. He certainly challenges Newman for best defensive player on this team.

 

[Crown Royal]

He's playing very well this year. He takes well to that strongside Merriman position. He spent most of the beginning of the year getting DeMarcus' cleanup sacks, but recently he's been shredding.

I would question how that proves that claims of him being average in years past were false, though. If something were to suddenly click with Julius Jones, and he went for 1500 and 12 TDs, would that change analysis of his play in prior seasons? No.

The difference, to me at least, is that I don't really see much difference in his overall play from this year to years past. The only difference I see is that he is consistently one on one with either an LT, TE or RB, instead of getting protection slides his way. Teams would be silly not to focus on Ware, which leaves ellis open to wreak havoc, something he wasn't able to do previously.

I think it works both ways - I think that both Ware and Ellis are equally benefited by the presence of one another.

 

[jterrell]

Not to take anything away from what he has accomplished, but.......

Do you think teams game plan Ellis or Ware?

They gameplan for both if they have any sense.

Do you think we'd ignore Strahan just because Osi is a better pass rusher at this point?

What you are trying to is exactly what you said you weren't... taking something away from his 10.5 sacks in a partial season.

As the resident Greg Ellis apologist I am surely not going to allow that to happen without at least being called out

If Ellis somehow ends the season as the NFL's leading sack man you think Jerry will feel sad he gave him more money? lol.

NFL's leading sack man making 3 mil? that's a one heck of a bargain!

 

[EPL0c0]

Just an FYI to everyone who has spent the last couple of seasons calling Ellis 'average' and not really worth keeping.

He has killed the monkey on his back with 10.5 sacks already this season (and recall that he didn't really start until late this year).

He is currently .5 sacks away from the league leader, Kampman.

I guess, after all, we DO need him. Alexander? Anyone? My normally vegetarian self has some crow baking in the oven.

I think several things have come into alignment for Ellis.

1) DeMarcus Ware. Having a legit pass rusher opposite him has helped a lot. They compliment each other very well b/c Ellis is also providing the same for Ware.

2) Health. I think physically he's as healthy and fit as we've seen him. He's doing things now that I don't think he was capable of doing when he was a heavy DE.

3) Contract done. Peace of mind is a nice thing.

4) Scheme and coaching. I think Brian Stewart has been an unsung hero in all of this season's success. It's easy to forget he's there because we think of this as Phillips' defense/defensive scheme. Well it is..and Stewart's executing it well with the talent on hand.

I liked Greg Ellis but was one of those thinking maybe he'd be best gone... darn glad I was WRONG! Hand me my humble pie

 

[jterrell]

Nice try but getting double digit sacks in your tenth season in the league doesn't excuse the fact he couldn't do it in his first 9 seasons. At the very least, he should have done this earlier in his career. He was the 8th overall pick and he just now got double digit sacks. There is no crow to be had. You are a moron for even bringing this up.

And you are missing the point entirely. No one said he was just average. Those are your words not ours. Everyone said he was a very good player but not worth the 8th pick. Would you draft a player with the 8th overall pick knowing in advance that he wouldn't register double digit sacks until his 10th season in the league....no I didn't think so.

moron?
pretty talk tough for someone who was so bitterly wrong in every area of this conversation.

It has been proven at least 100 times that the 8th pick is not guarantee of even a plus starter much less a starter with a 10 year career.

How many times has Greg Ellis not been the leading sack man for the Dallas Cowboys in a season where he played a full season?

Ellis was the 3rd DE taken in his draft and has been by far the best DE of the bunch. It was a great pick. Doesn't mean Randy Moss "might" not have worked out even better but to call Ellis anything other than a good pick is "moronic" to the tee.

Ellis may not have had double digit sacks previously but he was always amongst the most effective overall DE's in the league with his run stopping and pass rush ability.

Any team in this league would spend the 8th pick in a heartbeat on a guy who could be a top 30 DE for them for 10 years. If you do not realize that then moron is really too nice a word.

 

[Alexander]

I think it works both ways - I think that both Ware and Ellis are equally benefited by the presence of one another.

That is an assumption that has next to no facts to back it up.

We already have seen what Ellis can do without a strong presence opposite him. He might have been our best pass rusher for years, but he never was a difference maker. He's a complementary piece now, and always has been. On a bad defense, like in the past, he's an MVP. Now, he's an important piece, but not indispensible if there is another legitimate pass rusher available.

Ware is the opposite. He is a catalyst that teams have to account for or pay the price. Ware got the majority of his sacks last year without Greg Ellis in the lineup (six of his 11.5 came post-Ellis injury).

Ware is a special talent that can't be controlled when he is on top of his game. He beats the best and has results.

As the Washington game can attest, if even a marginal effort is paid to negating Ellis, he can be rendered invisible. He also isn't facing the team's best pass blocker on a regular basis as Ware does almost weekly.

That is the difference between the two.

 

[Mr. Marti]

Just an FYI to everyone who has spent the last couple of seasons calling Ellis 'average' and not really worth keeping.

He has killed the monkey on his back with 10.5 sacks already this season (and recall that he didn't really start until late this year).

He is currently .5 sacks away from the league leader, Kampman.

I guess, after all, we DO need him. Alexander? Anyone? My normally vegetarian self has some crow baking in the oven.

hahahaha, i know what you mean man. Even I was frustrated with him but damn he has really stepped up his game this season and earned everyones respect.