Griner sentenced to 9 years

[Hoofbite]

First off, I was countering your example of WHY you were labeling it a dictatorship there - if Russia is a dictatorship for holding foreigners more accountable than their own citizens, then the US and nearly every country on Earth is a dictatorship.

But to be technical here, no, Russia is not a "dictatorship". You can talk about Russia being corrupt, but they hold elections and they vote people into power. Whether those elections are rigged, well, sufficient evidence would be needed to determine this and I don't think the US or anyone on this board (including me) can determine that.

Again, I wasn't saying Griner is what makes them a dictatorship. I was saying they actually are a dictatorship and this is why you don't travel and break laws in a country that is ruled by a dictator. Punishing those who break your laws does not make you a dictatorship, but they are literally a dictatorship so the consequences will be whatever they need to be in order to achieve a single person's end goals.

Do you need them to send out a formal announcement to world that they are dictatorship? Of course they're going to pretend like they aren't and hold "elections". Putin and the oligarchs run that country and they don't have to worry about any opposition to their goals. Putin is believed to secretly be the worlds wealthiest person and if you have any doubt about that then just google "Putin's Palace". How does he get that money? By force, that's how. He permits the oligarchs to exploit the entirety of the Russian populace in exchange for a hefty slice of their spoils.

It's an internet joke that anyone who opposes him is going to fall out of a window, but it actually happens. Look what happened to the last guy that challenged Putin publicly. He was poisoned with a nerve agent that they saturated his underwear with. He survived and now he's in a Russian prison rotting away.

As an American, that is a country I would never set foot in and if I were forced to go there for whatever reason, I definitely wouldn't be crossing the border with anything. I've heard there's some beautiful sights in St. Petersburg and whatnot, but I would never go.

 

[Haimerej]

American teacher gets 14 years in Russia for the same crime.

Dude needs a better PR agent.

 

[terra]

I don't disagree about authoritarian, but the simple fact is, the majority of the citizens in Russia agree and vote for this authoritarianism. I think people in the US just need to realize that a good majority of Russia simply likes Putin.

Support or scared to oppose him?
Or so used to dictatorship they see no real reason to do anything about it?
There are many other possibilities then your claim they are so happy he is running things.
To be blunt though it is up to the people to demand change but they do not.
Like in Mexico and many other countries that are in terrible condition. In the end either due to fear or apathy or whatever the people ALLOW it but probably do not LOVE it.
Supposedly some polls show that a significant number of Russians want someone like Stalin running things. What does that tell you?

 

[terra]

American teacher gets 14 years in Russia for the same crime.

Dude needs a better PR agent.

I have absolutely no sympathy for stupid people.

 

[mattjames2010]

Support or scared to oppose him?
Or so used to dictatorship they see no real reason to do anything about it?
There are many other possibilities then your claim they are so happy he is running things.
To be blunt though it is up to the people to demand change but they do not.
Like in Mexico and many other countries that are in terrible condition. In the end either due to fear or apathy or whatever the people ALLOW it but probably do not LOVE it.
Supposedly some polls show that a significant number of Russians want someone like Stalin running things. What does that tell you?

Scared to oppose him? It's voting, dude. He still gets an overwhelming amount of votes, so many that it goes beyond being "rigged". He's obviously not rounding up the people who vote against him.

I have issues with people who view Russia as a country on the level of North Korea - it's not, that's US bias. I know a lot of people in Russia, I've done business with people in Russia. I have a friend right now that has her entire schooling paid for, she doesn't have to give out a single penny for it. You don't have large amount of 20 something year olds there crying about student loan debt. I'd say, in many ways, the average Russian is taken care of far better than the average US person is. There are many reasons for Russian citizens to be happy with their current government. There is also a stronger sense of being patriotic and nationalist in Russia as well.

They don't have guns to their heads and being forced into a voting booth and to vote one way. That's just not how it works, and frankly, the fact people THINK that is what is going on tells you how sensationalist western media is (I'm not even suggesting Russian media doesn't have it's own bias)

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Scared to oppose him? It's voting, dude. He still gets an overwhelming amount of votes, so many that it goes beyond being "rigged". He's obviously not rounding up the people who vote against him.

I have issues with people who view Russia as a country on the level of North Korea - it's not, that's US bias. I know a lot of people in Russia, I've done business with people in Russia. I have a friend right now that has her entire schooling paid for, she doesn't have to give out a single penny for it. You don't have large amount of 20 something year olds there crying about student loan debt. I'd say, in many ways, the average Russian is taken care of far better than the average US person is. There are many reasons for Russian citizens to be happy with their current government. There is also a stronger sense of being patriotic and nationalist in Russia as well.

They don't have guns to their heads and being forced into a voting booth and to vote one way. That's just not how it works, and frankly, the fact people THINK that is what is going on tells you how sensationalist western media is (I'm not even suggesting Russian media doesn't have it's own bias)

Now I know why I have you on ignore. Defending a dictator. I'm not surprised.

 

[mattjames2010]

Now I know why I have you on ignore. Defending a dictator. I'm not surprised.

Already been over the "dictator" word - you realize there are nearly 2,000 foreign observers for Russian elections, yes? There hasn't been sufficient evidence to even prove there is corruption that gets Putin into office, people are simply voting him in because they find him likeable. I have also said, yes, I believe Putin is certainly authoritarian or at least tries to be within what is legal in Russia (A lot of it is against anti-nationalism) - but guess what? Many Russian people support such authoritarianism. There is a difference between that and a dictatorship. If Russians wanted Putin gone, they could vote him out. They have simply chosen not to.

 

[terra]

Already been over the "dictator" word - you realize there are nearly 2,000 foreign observers for Russian elections, yes? There hasn't been sufficient evidence to even prove there is corruption that gets Putin into office, people are simply voting him in because they find him likeable. I have also said, yes, I believe Putin is certainly authoritarian or at least tries to be within what is legal in Russia (A lot of it is against anti-nationalism) - but guess what? Many Russian people support such authoritarianism. There is a difference between that and a dictatorship. If Russians wanted Putin gone, they could vote him out. They have simply chosen not to.

I guess those that suffered under communism for all those years supported it?
Of course then comes the question of why did they not fight?
Are you ignorant of why that was.

and your talk about voting. shows even more ignorance of the situation inside the country.

Their elections make old Chicago mayor Richard Daley look like the epitome of honesty and integrity.

 

[mattjames2010]

I guess those that suffered under communism for all those years supported it?
Of course then comes the question of why did they not fight?
Are you ignorant of why that was.

and your talk about voting. shows even more ignorance of the situation inside the country.

Their elections make old Chicago mayor Richard Daley look like the epitome of honesty and integrity.

I don't know how the elections when during soviet russia - but since you bring this up, you realize one of the many reasons Putin is well liked in Russia was his protest against the former regime (which he left himself) and being considered one of the reasons Russia is a player in the world stage now, yes? I'm not even saying Putin deserves such accolades, I'm saying that is how many people view Putin in Russia.

And of course I'm bringing up voting - the guy has won multiple elections and they've all been pretty much landslides. I'm not just going by the results themselves, but the fact that foreign observers have come to the conclusion that there is no sufficient evidence of rigging or corruption to the point it gets Putin elected. You could argue that state propaganda helps Putins seem likeable, but I'll say it's not too far off from the US with their chosen candidates - there is a reason lobbying and the elite take hold of power in the US, they have both money and media on their side.

If you have anything that proves 1. Russian people overwhelmingly dislike Putin 2. Sufficient evidence to prove there is enough corruption to get Putin into office, well, there are very many people who would love to have a reason to force Putin out of office - maybe send this information their way.

 

[dargonking999]

Just sayin..no matter how you wanna try and spin it. The truth is the truth.

 

[mattjames2010]

Just sayin..no matter how you wanna try and spin it. The truth is the truth.

What is being implied here?

 

[dargonking999]

What is being implied here?

If this wasn't a WNBA star, during a Russia - USA second cold war, then she would have already made it back home by now. She got 9 years, not because she "smuggled" .17 grams of THC in the country, but because she's a famous american who Russia can use to embarrass the US and leverage for some type of benefit.

 

[Montanalo]

Scared to oppose him? It's voting, dude. He still gets an overwhelming amount of votes, so many that it goes beyond being "rigged". He's obviously not rounding up the people who vote against him.

I have issues with people who view Russia as a country on the level of North Korea - it's not, that's US bias. I know a lot of people in Russia, I've done business with people in Russia. I have a friend right now that has her entire schooling paid for, she doesn't have to give out a single penny for it. You don't have large amount of 20 something year olds there crying about student loan debt. I'd say, in many ways, the average Russian is taken care of far better than the average US person is. There are many reasons for Russian citizens to be happy with their current government. There is also a stronger sense of being patriotic and nationalist in Russia as well.

They don't have guns to their heads and being forced into a voting booth and to vote one way. That's just not how it works, and frankly, the fact people THINK that is what is going on tells you how sensationalist western media is (I'm not even suggesting Russian media doesn't have it's own bias)

In the early days, Putin was almost universally revered by the everyday Russian for lifting the country out of the chaos of the Yeltsin years. Putin offered a Reagan-like view for restoring Russian honor and emperial power. Now, a significant portion of the population want someone else in power and, yet, Putin continues to win elections with 》 75% of the votes. So, while guns are not at their heads, there is a clear, implied expectation who gets the votes.

With regard to your comments about Russian education and quality of life, about the only group reasonably well taken care in Russia are the veterans. If your not part of the new rich, life is hard. Nothing is done without bribes and that includes education.

At one point, Russia had one of the better secondary and tertiary educations systems, particularly in the fields of math, science and engineering. Now, you can "buy" your grades and degree by simply paying the instructor... and, it is widespread.

 

[mattjames2010]

If this wasn't a WNBA star, during a Russia - USA second cold war, then she would have already made it back home by now. She got 9 years, not because she "smuggled" .17 grams of THC in the country, but because she's a famous american who Russia can use to embarrass the US and leverage for some type of benefit.

Oh, the account and the users under it are implying something else than what you are saying. I do agree that she is being used for Russia's gain (and I imagine they'll eventually get something out of this)

 

[mattjames2010]

In the early days, Putin was almost universally revered by the everyday Russian for lifting the country out of the chaos of the Yeltsin years. Putin offered a Reagan-like view for restoring Russian honor and emperial power. Now, a significant portion of the population want someone else in power and, yet, Putin continues to win elections with 》 75% of the votes. So, while guns are not at their heads, there is a clear, implied expectation who gets the votes.

With regard to your comments about Russian education and quality of life, about the only group reasonably well taken care in Russia are the veterans. If your not part of the new rich, life is hard. Nothing is done without bribes and that includes education.

At one point, Russia had one of the better secondary and tertiary educations systems, particularly in the fields of math, science and engineering. Now, you can "buy" your grades and degree by simply paying the instructor... and, it is widespread.

....like 35% of the people. It's not exactly an extremely small number, the numbers don't show he is loved by everyone. There are enough people that don't want him in power, are vocal about it, and vote against him.

The argument here is, he's a dictator and dictating it - the choice is still freely being made by the Russian people.

 

[Ghost12]

If this wasn't a WNBA star, during a Russia - USA second cold war, then she would have already made it back home by now. She got 9 years, not because she "smuggled" .17 grams of THC in the country, but because she's a famous american who Russia can use to embarrass the US and leverage for some type of benefit.

This is true. She is not a prisoner, she is a hostage (there's a difference). Her fame makes her a very valuable hostage. I can't help but laugh at all the twitter morons saying "if this was LeBron James or Tom Brady, they would be home by now." That statement is sheer idiocy because James or Brady would be even more valuable hostages, and thus be held out for more.

Of course, anyone who has a problem with what Russia is doing is free to petition the Kremlin for her release... good luck with that....

 

[dargonking999]

Oh, the account and the users under it are implying something else than what you are saying. I do agree that she is being used for Russia's gain (and I imagine they'll eventually get something out of this)

those probably play a role to but i think its more so just because she's a famous American that they can use.

But of course plenty of people in this thread have made it known they can care less, and she deserves unjust punishment because they don't like her. Its no wonder our own justice system is so crappy.

 

[Ghost12]

those probably play a role to but i think its more so just because she's a famous American that they can use.

But of course plenty of people in this thread have made it known they can care less, and she deserves unjust punishment because they don't like her. Its no wonder our own justice system is so crappy.

IMHO she doesn't deserve 9 years, but I sure don't want to trade a murderer/arms dealer for a basketball player.

 

[Flamma]

IMHO she doesn't deserve 9 years, but I sure don't want to trade a murderer/arms dealer for a basketball player.

Pays to keep a low profile. The girl that got 2 months and a fine was a nobody. The girl that got 9 years can be used as a bargaining chip.

 

[Haimerej]

Just sayin..no matter how you wanna try and spin it. The truth is the truth.

Well, the truth is that Ms. Lorber was released in 2019. Think what you will, but there was a guy in charge here at the time who is the only president this millennium that didn't see Russia invade another country.