Grizz: It's still about Bill

ethiostar

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I'm not a Parcells apologist either and i agree with Grizz, its time to move on.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/

by Grizz Sun May 20, 2007 at 01:03:15 PM EDT

Yesterday I was going to write one more article about Bill Parcells. I was going to lay out the insanity of the argument that New Orleans somehow exposed the blueprint on how to beat this defense. I admit; I was taken in by that argument during the end of the season when the Cowboys looked very inept. Then I thought about it some and tried to wrap my head around the argument.

The argument I’ve heard goes that Parcells’ scheme was so archaic, so utterly unchangeable, that it was a relic of 1980’s football and couldn’t win in the new millennium. But here’s the funny part, I guess opposing teams have been total idiots for over 20 years until the moment New Orleans and Sean Payton exposed the double-secret blueprint to beating a Parcells’ defense. It’s not like they didn’t have plenty of film on the Parcells’ 3-4 defense. I guess the Colts could’ve used that plan earlier in the season when Parcells’ archaic and useless 3-4 scheme held the high-powered Colts to 14 points and sent them to a loss. I guess the defense that had us 8-4 going into the final month of the season was a mirage.

Do I think Parcells and Zimmer could’ve made some adjustments down the stretch? Sure. And they did. We forget that the Cowboys used Bobby Carpenter as a spy on Mike Vick from the defensive tackle position in a game. We forget that for the Lions game we played a lot of 4-3 defense because we just weren’t generating enough of a pass rush without Greg Ellis. I guess the fact that they went on the road in a playoff game, held Seattle to 21 points and had the team ready for victory isn’t important.

The point is the players are just as responsible as any coach for the collapse at the end of the year. Yet, some players are unable to accept any personal responsibility for their own shortcomings. I’ve also noticed some of the biggest complainers are guys that Parcells placed a lot of faith in. He passed on Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones and drafted Julius Jones. He chose Marcus Spears in the first round. Maybe the crushing burden of expectations got to them.

Or more probably, they, along with some other players just tired of Parcells’ style. It wasn’t the scheme; it was the constant needling, the limited carrot and the unlimited stick that Parcells used to get production that may have worn thin. But it’s easier to say the failings were because the coach used them wrong, instead of saying they couldn’t handle the abrasive style of a demanding coach or that their game wasn’t up to par.

There’s probably a lot more in the equation than we know. But to boil it all down to Bill Parcells’ scheme and his inability to win with it in the "new age" of football is hard to believe. I mean, if it was so easy to beat this archaic scheme, why did it take until New Orleans beat the crap out of us for other teams to catch on?

I’m not a Parcells apologist; he made some mistakes while here. For sure. But I also find the argument that his scheme is somehow responsible for our failure to win big an over-simplistic cop-out meant to absolve the players of responsibility. And we as fans want to absolve them from responsibility because they will be here in 2007 and Bill Parcells won’t. So if we are rolling-out the same basic roster this year, we need to believe that they can win, and the easy way to convince ourselves is to lay the blame of last year at Parcells’ feet. Too simplistic for me.

And let’s not forget, our young and talented QB didn’t exactly play that well over the last month, either. I have faith that Romo will become a franchise QB, but he certainly had some growing pains over the last month of the season that we didn’t see in his first month. But the offense was generally very good last year, so I won’t try to push it all off on that. Collectively, as a team, the Cowboys failed over the last month when they had succeeded pretty well up to that point, playing the same scheme that Parcells has employed forever.

But here’s the good part, Wade Phillips is here and maybe his approach will rejuvenate the players. Maybe his attacking style will improve the defense and create big plays and big opportunities. And if that happens, I’m sure we’ll here more of the "it was Parcells fault, see, here’s the proof." Again, a simplistic approach to a complex problem.

Which leads me to the reason I wrote this even though I decided to pass on it yesterday, an article by Gil LeBreton that takes on the issue of bashing Parcells by the Cowboys.
It's all about the disrespect. For most modern, underachieving athletes, it's all about passing the blame and teeing up the head coach, whenever possible, as the scapegoat.
We media love this. When there's a change at head coach, we trawl, trawl, trawl the locker room for dissenters, hoping to find the slightest answer that smacks of previous dissatisfaction with Life Under Bill.
It’s true; the media does search for juicy quotes that it can plaster on its pages to up its readership. And some Cowboys have taken the bait.
 

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ethiostar;1504798 said:
I'm not a Parcells apologist either and i agree with Grizz, its time to move on.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/

by Grizz Sun May 20, 2007 at 01:03:15 PM EDT

Yesterday I was going to write one more article about Bill Parcells. I was going to lay out the insanity of the argument that New Orleans somehow exposed the blueprint on how to beat this defense. I admit; I was taken in by that argument during the end of the season when the Cowboys looked very inept. Then I thought about it some and tried to wrap my head around the argument.

The argument I’ve heard goes that Parcells’ scheme was so archaic, so utterly unchangeable, that it was a relic of 1980’s football and couldn’t win in the new millennium. But here’s the funny part, I guess opposing teams have been total idiots for over 20 years until the moment New Orleans and Sean Payton exposed the double-secret blueprint to beating a Parcells’ defense. It’s not like they didn’t have plenty of film on the Parcells’ 3-4 defense. I guess the Colts could’ve used that plan earlier in the season when Parcells’ archaic and useless 3-4 scheme held the high-powered Colts to 14 points and sent them to a loss. I guess the defense that had us 8-4 going into the final month of the season was a mirage.
Up until his stint with the Cowboys, Parcells didn't control the defense -- Belicheck did. He wrote the playbook and called the plays. Belicheck isn't here. So Grizz's argument here doesn't float at all. But in every year with the Cowboys, when Parcells is in control of the defense, it has started out like gangbusters and finished the season with a whimper.
 

superpunk

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theogt;1504813 said:
Up until his stint with the Cowboys, Parcells didn't control the defense -- Belicheck did. He wrote the playbook and called the plays. Belicheck isn't here. So Grizz's argument here doesn't float at all. But in every year with the Cowboys, when Parcells is in control of the defense, it has started out like gangbusters and finished the season with a whimper.

Odd how that's the same trend we've always had with Zimmer.

Hmmmm....the two realms of thought for criticism of Parcells' coaching style are contradictory. That he owes all his success to his assistants, and that he won't let them breathe. Did he just decide to change and control the defense when he got to Dallas? Or is it more likely that this same read and react cover two was the same defense Zimmer's always ran, just out of a new alignment?

Excellent article by Grizz, BTW. Somehow this archaic defense wasn't figured out till the Saints. What changed? The defense? Or it's execution? It's time to wake up and smell the coffee on these players.
 

theogt

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superpunk;1504821 said:
Odd how that's the same trend we've always had with Zimmer.

Hmmmm....the two realms of thought for criticism of Parcells' coaching style are contradictory. That he owes all his success to his assistants, and that he won't let them breathe. Did he just decide to change and control the defense when he got to Dallas? Or is it more likely that this same read and react cover two was the same defense Zimmer's always ran, just out of a new alignment?

Excellent article by Grizz, BTW. Somehow this archaic defense wasn't figured out till the Saints. What changed? The defense? Or it's execution? It's time to wake up and smell the coffee on these players.
Good point. Never thought about it that way. It was certainly a hybrid of Bill's and Zimmer's, much like any other situation with an HC and DC.
 

Dhragon

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ethiostar;1504798 said:
I'm not a Parcells apologist either and i agree with Grizz, its time to move on.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/

by Grizz Sun May 20, 2007 at 01:03:15 PM EDT

Yesterday I was going to write one more article about Bill Parcells. I was going to lay out the insanity of the argument that New Orleans somehow exposed the blueprint on how to beat this defense. I admit; I was taken in by that argument during the end of the season when the Cowboys looked very inept. Then I thought about it some and tried to wrap my head around the argument.

The argument I’ve heard goes that Parcells’ scheme was so archaic, so utterly unchangeable, that it was a relic of 1980’s football and couldn’t win in the new millennium. But here’s the funny part, I guess opposing teams have been total idiots for over 20 years until the moment New Orleans and Sean Payton exposed the double-secret blueprint to beating a Parcells’ defense. It’s not like they didn’t have plenty of film on the Parcells’ 3-4 defense. I guess the Colts could’ve used that plan earlier in the season when Parcells’ archaic and useless 3-4 scheme held the high-powered Colts to 14 points and sent them to a loss. I guess the defense that had us 8-4 going into the final month of the season was a mirage.

Bill Belecheck's version was NOT the same version of the 3-4 Bill used here ( confirmed by Ferguson - a Bill Parcell's guy ) so this argument does not float. And Payton knew what the weak links were in our version since our version was all about winning individual matchups. Payton knew who couldn't consistently win their matchups. He exposed those players. Bill stuck with them even afterwards without changing the scheme which put them in the same positions to fail. He didn't seem to get that no one can have the best 11 guys at all positions ( some of your defense just will not have the tools/skill set to win their matchups all the time ) so a coach has to actually gameplan to offset those imbalances. Bill could not do so successfully.

Do I think Parcells and Zimmer could’ve made some adjustments down the stretch? Sure. And they did. We forget that the Cowboys used Bobby Carpenter as a spy on Mike Vick from the defensive tackle position in a game. We forget that for the Lions game we played a lot of 4-3 defense because we just weren’t generating enough of a pass rush without Greg Ellis. I guess the fact that they went on the road in a playoff game, held Seattle to 21 points and had the team ready for victory isn’t important.

It isn't important since it ended with a loss. The failure of the coaches to gameplan to attack the CBs hired off the street will always be the reason we lost that game IMO, not the bobbled FG attempt.

The point is the players are just as responsible as any coach for the collapse at the end of the year. Yet, some players are unable to accept any personal responsibility for their own shortcomings. I’ve also noticed some of the biggest complainers are guys that Parcells placed a lot of faith in. He passed on Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones and drafted Julius Jones. He chose Marcus Spears in the first round. Maybe the crushing burden of expectations got to them.

Could be that they had so much pressure they folded somewhat. But wasn't Bill SUPPOSED to be some kind of master psychologist who knew which buttons to push on players. He failed to do that here. Thus, one of his big plusses from the past became a big minus here with the Boys.

Or more probably, they, along with some other players just tired of Parcells’ style. It wasn’t the scheme; it was the constant needling, the limited carrot and the unlimited stick that Parcells used to get production that may have worn thin. But it’s easier to say the failings were because the coach used them wrong, instead of saying they couldn’t handle the abrasive style of a demanding coach or that their game wasn’t up to par.

It was the scheme - as well as the griping ( the old "he's no Gayle Sayers" bit to MBIII and the constant putting down of other players who did good to try and keep them grounded got old. ) No ONE thing was the fault, it was a combination of things INCLUDING scheme.

There’s probably a lot more in the equation than we know. But to boil it all down to Bill Parcells’ scheme and his inability to win with it in the "new age" of football is hard to believe. I mean, if it was so easy to beat this archaic scheme, why did it take until New Orleans beat the crap out of us for other teams to catch on?

Because good coaches are hard to find? Wish we'd have kept Payton and fired Bill a year earlier.

I’m not a Parcells apologist; he made some mistakes while here. For sure. But I also find the argument that his scheme is somehow responsible for our failure to win big an over-simplistic cop-out meant to absolve the players of responsibility. And we as fans want to absolve them from responsibility because they will be here in 2007 and Bill Parcells won’t. So if we are rolling-out the same basic roster this year, we need to believe that they can win, and the easy way to convince ourselves is to lay the blame of last year at Parcells’ feet. Too simplistic for me.

And yet Grizz goes simplistic the other way. It wasn't the scheme but the players? It was a combination of those plus even more factors. But to dismiss scheme to the extent Grizz does is just silly.

And let’s not forget, our young and talented QB didn’t exactly play that well over the last month, either. I have faith that Romo will become a franchise QB, but he certainly had some growing pains over the last month of the season that we didn’t see in his first month. But the offense was generally very good last year, so I won’t try to push it all off on that. Collectively, as a team, the Cowboys failed over the last month when they had succeeded pretty well up to that point, playing the same scheme that Parcells has employed forever.

Bill's teams always start off strong with us. It's the second half of the season we usually nosedive. For some reason it takes 8-10 games before other teams figure us out. But once they do, Bill sticks with the busted scheme the rest of the way anyway. And again - Bill's scheme here was NOT the same he's employed forever. Belecheck's defensive scheme was totally different according to Ferguson.

But here’s the good part, Wade Phillips is here and maybe his approach will rejuvenate the players. Maybe his attacking style will improve the defense and create big plays and big opportunities. And if that happens, I’m sure we’ll here more of the "it was Parcells fault, see, here’s the proof." Again, a simplistic approach to a complex problem.

Wade's defense should definitely be fun to watch. We'll undoubtfully give up more big plays but we should also generate more big plays ourself.


Which leads me to the reason I wrote this even though I decided to pass on it yesterday, an article by Gil LeBreton that takes on the issue of bashing Parcells by the Cowboys.
It's all about the disrespect. For most modern, underachieving athletes, it's all about passing the blame and teeing up the head coach, whenever possible, as the scapegoat.​

We media love this. When there's a change at head coach, we trawl, trawl, trawl the locker room for dissenters, hoping to find the slightest answer that smacks of previous dissatisfaction with Life Under Bill.​
It’s true; the media does search for juicy quotes that it can plaster on its pages to up its readership. And some Cowboys have taken the bait

No argument here - reporters can be scum in some of their tactics.
.

Dhragon
 

Dhragon

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superpunk;1504821 said:
Odd how that's the same trend we've always had with Zimmer.

Hmmmm....the two realms of thought for criticism of Parcells' coaching style are contradictory. That he owes all his success to his assistants, and that he won't let them breathe. Did he just decide to change and control the defense when he got to Dallas? Or is it more likely that this same read and react cover two was the same defense Zimmer's always ran, just out of a new alignment?

Excellent article by Grizz, BTW. Somehow this archaic defense wasn't figured out till the Saints. What changed? The defense? Or it's execution? It's time to wake up and smell the coffee on these players.

If Bill changed the defense to a 3-4 then handed it over to a coach who has NEVER coached it before in Zimmer then that right there is a bigger indictment on Bill's judgement than anything else. To NOT control all aspects of the defense when you are the only one with any experience with it is stupid. So we got two choices:

a) Bill controlled the defense himself. He did a lousy job late in the season every year. Thus, he failed.

b) He installed his 3-4 then handed it over to a coach who never coached it before. That coach then failed with it - predictably. Again, that failure falls on Parcells for being so stupid in the first place in letting Zimmer run it.
 

superpunk

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Dhragon;1504837 said:
If Bill changed the defense to a 3-4 then handed it over to a coach who has NEVER coached it before in Zimmer then that right there is a bigger indictment on Bill's judgement than anything else. To NOT control all aspects of the defense when you are the only one with any experience with it is stupid. So we got two choices:

a) Bill controlled the defense himself. He did a lousy job late in the season every year. Thus, he failed.

b) He installed his 3-4 then handed it over to a coach who never coached it before. That coach then failed with it - predictably. Again, that failure falls on Parcells for being so stupid in the first place in letting Zimmer run it.

Bill put the defense in the charge of a coordinator who was trusted in the league, had proved himself to do good work with bad talent. Likely Bill should have looked for a 3-4 guy to get some fresh ideas in there. But, something about Zimmer made Bill trust him. That payed off for most of last year.

Then the players fell on their faces. Lost all their confidence. Hopefully Wade brings that back.
 

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zeromaster;1504852 said:
Just an off-topic question: why is it so important to use this font in your replies? It is possible to get an even clearer indication with something like this:
yada
vB code is your friend...:D

Don't know how to quote pieces of another posting. I'll try that VB Code link you put up.
 

Dhragon

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Wow, what a mess of a description ( for me anyway ). I'll gladly use the partial quoting of another post if someone can tell me how in plain english. Otherwise it's THIS
 

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Dhragon;1504936 said:
Wow, what a mess of a description ( for me anyway ). I'll gladly use the partial quoting of another post if someone can tell me how in plain english. Otherwise it's THIS

just use the code you see when you quote the post.

[quote ]<<<<<(without the space) begins the quote and [/quote] ends it.
 

Dhragon

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superpunk;1504840 said:
Bill put the defense in the charge of a coordinator who was trusted in the league, had proved himself to do good work with bad talent. Likely Bill should have looked for a 3-4 guy to get some fresh ideas in there. But, something about Zimmer made Bill trust him. That payed off for most of last year.

Then the players fell on their faces. Lost all their confidence. Hopefully Wade brings that back.

Since Zimmer was so great in your eyes, would you have put him in charge of the offense as well? He had as much experience with the offensive side of the ball as he did the 3-4. It was idiotic of Bill to expect Zimmer, no matter how good he may or may not have been, to entrust him to run a defense he didn't know very well.

And sure it paid off the majority of last year, except for when it truly counted - late in the regular season and the playoffs.
 

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Dhragon said:
Let us see
Another option is to just select the text you want to quote within the post and then click this option
quote.gif
. It will put the quote tags around it for you.


And if you want to continue testing, try the Site Info and Support forum AKA Support Zone.
 

superpunk

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Dhragon;1504944 said:
Since Zimmer was so great in your eyes, would you have put him in charge of the offense as well?

Don't be ridiculous. I'm trying to have a discussion here.

And sure it paid off the majority of last year, except for when it truly counted - late in the regular season and the playoffs.

So what changed? Zimmer's defense has been around for a decade almost. Parcells' for several decades. What happened? All of a sudden, did some league-wide light come on, and everyone knew how to beat it?

Or is it far more likely that the players were screwing up, had lost their confidence and were reeling? The defense stayed the same, in principle. The coaching staff tried different things to stop the bleeding. It was too late for a complete defensive scheme overhaul. The players needed to step up, and keep playing at the level they had been. They didn't, and we fell (although sddenly the defense was much more effective in the playoffs. Did the Seahawks not get the "Here's how to beat Bill's archaic defense" memo? Or did our players just stepp it up and rise to the occasion?)
 

Dhragon

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Zimmer's defense is a 4-3 not a 3-4 so he wasn't playing the defense he was used to for the last decade.

Bill's 3-4 with us was not the same 3-4 he played for 20 years or so with Bellicheck as his def coordinator per Jason Ferguson.

So that argument don't fly.

And in case you didn't notice, EVERY year the light comes on with opponents during the last half of the season with Bill in charge. Why is that you suppose? The players just happen to keep screwing up, losing confidence, etc EVERY YEAR around the same time?

As to why the defense was better in the playoffs - just maybe because the team we were playing was not very good at all. The Seahawks were struggling on offense for most of the year. I doubt very many defenses would have let that offense score much at that time. No stepping up by players was required.
 

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Dhragon;1504978 said:
Zimmer's defense is a 4-3 not a 3-4 so he wasn't playing the defense he was used to for the last decade.

The alignment is less than important. We ran Zimmer's defense out of a new alignment. That's it.

Bill's 3-4 with us was not the same 3-4 he played for 20 years or so with Bellicheck as his def coordinator per Jason Ferguson.

So that argument don't fly.

And in case you didn't notice, EVERY year the light comes on with opponents during the last half of the season with Bill in charge. Why is that you suppose? The players just happen to keep screwing up, losing confidence, etc EVERY YEAR around the same time?

Of course it wasn't the same. In New England and New York he had Bellichick. Here he had Zimmer. The head coach trusts his assistants.

As to why the defense was better in the playoffs - just maybe because the team we were playing was not very good at all. The Seahawks were struggling on offense for most of the year. I doubt very many defenses would have let that offense score much at that time. No stepping up by players was required.

The same Seahawks who scored 24 against the league's best defense the very next week. That's a potent offensive team, and we controlled them for the most part, because our defense (read: players) stepped up big time. Our run game was effective for the first time in weeks, and we played well as a team, on the field. The scheme didn't just magically become more dynamic. The players executed it better.
 

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ethiostar;1504798 said:
The point is the players are just as responsible as any coach for the collapse at the end of the year. Yet, some players are unable to accept any personal responsibility for their own shortcomings. I’ve also noticed some of the biggest complainers are guys that Parcells placed a lot of faith in. He passed on Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones and drafted Julius Jones. He chose Marcus Spears in the first round. Maybe the crushing burden of expectations got to them.

I am sure the coaching staff bears its responsibility. The collapse and lack of adjustment were maddening, but the players ultimately bear the load. This was an outstanding point by the author.

These players in particular have been called underachievers before. And Coach Parcells did put a great deal of fatih in the both of them.

If my suspicions are correct, we will get some benefit from Phillips style initially, but once the novelty wears off, we are back to the same personalities again, along with the same issues. The schematic change and kid gloves cannot cure everything, even though that's the story right now.
 

Alexander

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superpunk;1504994 said:
The scheme didn't just magically become more dynamic. The players executed it better.

It is always about execution. No amount of talent or coaching can beat it.

The great teams often do the most simple things and just execute them perfectly. Achieve that level of nirvana, you lose fewer football games.
 
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