Gurode or Johnson?

[WarC]

I choose Aldre Gurohnson.

Yeah, there we go...Transplant Al's head onto Gurode's body! Franken-Center is born.

 

[DCDave]

Neither have I.

Insane hyperbole aside, don't you think the reasons Drew had no time may have also been named Rob Pettiti and Torrin Tucker?

It may be hyperbole, but only by a little. The reason our tackles gave up sacks so regularly in 2005 was because when ends got the corner on them the qb had no place to step up. And the reason (in addition to Bledsoe's immobility) was the fact that Johnson consistently got knocked backward into the backfield. Now, he wasn't alone in the backfield -- Rivera was getting jackhammered backward right there with him. But IMO Al was a big part of the problem.

And Gurode is almost impossible to drive back like that. Now, granted, Gurode doesn't always block the right guy. But when he does, he blocks the hell out of him. And he has always done better assignment-wise at center than guard (I frankly have no idea why Parcells moved him). And he actually played pretty well this year. Better than average. In trying to decide between the two, remember that Gurode didn't become the starter this year by bathing in the annointing oil. There was a competition in which he beat Al out. And beat him out pretty decisively I thought. So, if we have to choose, why not bring back the guy who's played the best?

 

[Aikbach]

Keep both if you can.

 

[ghst187]

I must be missing the toughness of this question. Best of luck to you Al on whatever team you play on next year.

agreed!

 

[Woods]

Keep Gurode.

And as I understand, the Cowboys are trying to sign him to a long term contract.

 

[AdamJT13]

It may be hyperbole, but only by a little. The reason our tackles gave up sacks so regularly in 2005 was because when ends got the corner on them the qb had no place to step up. And the reason (in addition to Bledsoe's immobility) was the fact that Johnson consistently got knocked backward into the backfield. Now, he wasn't alone in the backfield -- Rivera was getting jackhammered backward right there with him. But IMO Al was a big part of the problem.

According to STATS, our tackles allowed 28 sacks in 2005, and Al Johnson allowed 1.25. How many of those 28 sacks allowed by the tackles were because Johnson got "consistently knocked backward"? One? Two? More than two? How about giving an example of one?

In 2006, according to STATS, our tackles allowed 12 sacks, and Andre Gurode allowed four.


SACKS ALLOWED, 2005
Rob Petitti, 13.5 (most in league)
Torrin Tucker, 12.5 (tied for second-most in league)
Marco Rivera 3.25
Larry Allen 2.5
Marion Barber 2.5
Flozell Adams 2.0
Julius Jones 2.0
Jason Witten 1.5
Al Johnson 1.25
Lousaka Polite 1.0
Andre Gurode 0.5
Keyshawn Johnson 0.5
Unblocked/unassigned 6.0
Total 49.0




SACKS ALLOWED, 2006
Flozell Adams 7.5
Kyle Kosier 5.0
Marc Colombo 4.5
Andre Gurode 4.0
Marco Rivera 3.5
Marion Barber 2.0
Julius Jones 1.5
Unblocked/unassigned 9.0
Total 37.0

 

[LatinMind]

The new coach (and/or Jason Garrett) will decide what type of offensive line we need and which one we'll keep -- if we keep one.

i think norv will be making that call. and norv loves them big mauling type OL. gurode is the center for dallas.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

i think norv will be making that call. and norv loves them big mauling type OL. gurode is the center for dallas.

yeah, like Norv knows how to choose his players

 

[LatinMind]

According to STATS, our tackles allowed 28 sacks in 2005, and Al Johnson allowed 1.25. How many of those 28 sacks allowed by the tackles were because Johnson got "consistently knocked backward"? One? Two? More than two? How about giving an example of one?

In 2006, according to STATS, our tackles allowed 12 sacks, and Andre Gurode allowed four.

maybe because in 2005 the weakness was the outside. while in 06 the weakness was clearly the guard play. rivera was a washout, and kosier just doesnt have the strength to hold up to the blitzing treams piled up in the middle on dallas.

 

[burmafrd]

Gurode clearly beat out Al Johnson at camp this year. He had to have had a definite edge or BP would not have started him. He cut way down on his mental errors this year and was very solid. Al Johnson has had 4 years to learn leverage/whatever to do the job well and has not. What makes anyone think he will do better now? Its not a question.

 

[The Realist]

i think norv will be making that call. and norv loves them big mauling type OL. gurode is the center for dallas.

Stepnoski was tiny for a modern-era center.

285 max.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Stepnoski was tiny for a modern-era center.

285 max.

more like 260

 

[LatinMind]

Stepnoski was tiny for a modern-era center.

285 max.

but step was strong as well. and he had some great guards playing next to him. al playing with these 2 guards would have gotten destroyed.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

but step was strong as well. and he had some great guards playing next to him. al playing with these 2 guards would have gotten destroyed.

I don't care how strong you are, if you're getting outweighed by 50+ lbs., you're getting dominated, Step succeeded because he was short and mastered the art of leverage

 

[AdamJT13]

Gurode clearly beat out Al Johnson at camp this year. He had to have had a definite edge or BP would not have started him. He cut way down on his mental errors this year and was very solid. Al Johnson has had 4 years to learn leverage/whatever to do the job well and has not. What makes anyone think he will do better now? Its not a question.

Parcells wanted Gurode's size. Johnson doesn't have the same size or strength, but he's still a good player and one that probably will be starting somewhere next season. A team that utilizes smaller, more mobile linemen would fit Johnson better.

 

[burmafrd]

Point is that Norv has ALWAYS been a big OL guy. He has always wanted the bigger, stronger guys. That makes Gurode the favorite.

 

[The Realist]

but step was strong as well. and he had some great guards playing next to him. al playing with these 2 guards would have gotten destroyed.

All I gotta say for the "Al gets pushed straight back into the QB every play" people is did you prefer the Julius back then or now?

If Gurode could nail down RG could save us a high pick after we cut Rivera.

 

[LatinMind]

All I gotta say for the "Al gets pushed straight back into the QB every play" people is did you prefer the Julius back then or now?

If Gurode could nail down RG could save us a high pick after we cut Rivera.

i dont think gurode is suited to play guard. he's clearly better playing center. switching him back and forth is what messed up head in the first place. that was all aprcells doing. i think dallas picks up one of these bigtime guards in FA. dielman or steinbach. or dont even be suprised to see leonaqrd davis moved to guard. could happen. thats when he was at his best playing guard

 

[burmafrd]

BP even admitted that switiching Gurode to guard was a mistake and thats why he brought Gurode back to get one last shot at center.

 

[DCDave]

According to STATS, our tackles allowed 28 sacks in 2005, and Al Johnson allowed 1.25. How many of those 28 sacks allowed by the tackles were because Johnson got "consistently knocked backward"? One? Two? More than two? How about giving an example of one?

Off the top of my head, I seem to recall during the game against the Kansas City Chiefs when Jared Allen went around Tucker, and Bledsoe stepped up, right into Johnson's back. But of course, I can't catalogue how many times Johnson got driven back into the quarterback's lap. You're right, I don't know what the exact stats are on how many sacks each has given up. But it is definitely my sense and impression, having watched all the games, that Johnson got driven back, causing the pocket to collapse, alot. More than Gurode. Much more. And I think that this clearly led to a bunch of sacks and/or broken plays. I don't know if most people perceived it the same way (though I suspect Parcells did, given who wound up with the job.)

And, helpful stats notwithstanding, you haven't actually disagreed with anything I've said. So I say that Johnson got pushed back into the qb's lap alot, multiple times during most games, and Gurode almost never did. Thus, when Gurode played, the qb had more time, even when the outside protection wasn't what it should have been. Do you agree or disagree?