CFZ Has Dan Quinn become Wade Phillips?

[Bobhaze]

I like Dan Quinn. No matter what anyone thinks of his defense’s atrocious performance against Green Bay in the playoffs, Dan Quinn rescued the Cowboys defense from the “Worst defense in team history” in 2020 to becoming a more than adequate unit the last 2-3 seasons.

In his defense - this year he was not exactly given a great set of LBs to work with, he lost his top CB to a knee injury, and the team’s 2023 #1 draft pick was a major disappointment in year one. (Can’t give up on Mazi yet but he did not have a good first year) Not making excuses, it’s just true that DQ‘s defensive gun was missing a bullet or two. No matter what, he is clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator IMO.

But I do wonder: Has Dan Quinn basically become Wade Phillips? A great defensive coordinator who should not be a head coach? We Cowboys fans watched the Wade Phillips years as our head coach with great pain. We saw a roster that Bill Parcells had molded into a top shelf #1 seed by 2007, only to watch in horror as that #1 seed in the NFC choked it all away in the divisional round vs the giants. And by 2010, after 3 and a half frustrating seasons with one wild card win, the team had quit on Wade.

Sadly, Wade Phillips was clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator. He eventually won a SB ring with Denver in 2015 as their defensive coordinator. Despite 3 tours of duty as an NFL head coach, Wade Phillips made it clear, he was a better coordinator than he was a HC. Is that true about Dan Quinn? I don’t know.

What’s sad for Dan Quinn is no matter what happens - if he’s hired by Washington tomorrow for example, he has clearly NOT been their first choice or they would have already hired him. If he is not offered the job in Washington has be become a second tier option like eventually Wade became? Again, if Washington really wanted Dan Quinn as their HC, they would have already hired him.

Either way, no matter what happens DQ does not look like the “hot commodity” coach in waiting but rather the second tier retread that’s available if a team can’t get who they wanted. That’s ultimately what Wade Phillips became. But to Wade’s credit, he also sports something very few other coaches have- a Super Bowl ring. Not as a HC but as a coordinator.

Time will soon tell if Dan Quinn is a HC again. Or the next Wade Phillips.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

Dan Quinn seems to be respected, something I didn't see in Marshmellow man. Wade Phillips was a yes man, and it was sad how the Cowboys and Garrett did him in.

 

[xwalker]

I like Dan Quinn. No what anyone thinks of his defense’s atrocious performance against Green Bay in the playoffs, Dan Quinn rescued the Cowboys defense from the “Worst defense in team history” in 2020 to becoming a more than adequate unit the last 2-3 seasons.

In his defense - this year he was not exactly given a great set of LBs to work with, he lost his top CB to a knee injury, and the team’s 2023 #1 draft pick was a major disappointment in year one. (Can’t give up on Mazi yet but he did not have a good first year) Not making excuses, it’s just true that DQ‘s defensive gun was missing a bullet or two. No matter what, he is clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator IMO.

But I do wonder: Has Dan Quinn basically become Wade Phillips? A great defensive coordinator who should not be a head coach? We Cowboys fans watched the Wade Phillips years as our head coach with great pain. We saw a roster that Bill Parcells had molded into a top shelf #1 seed by 2007, only to watch in horror as that #1 seed in the NFC choked it all away in the divisional round vs the giants. And by 2010, after 3 and a half frustrating seasons with one wild card win, the team had quit on Wade.

Sadly, Wade Phillips was clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator. He eventually won a SB ring with Denver in 2015 as their defensive coordinator. Despite 3 tours of duty as an NFL head coach, Wade Phillips made it clear, he was a better coordinator than he was a HC. Is that true about Dan Quinn? I don’t know.

What’s sad for Dan Quinn is no matter what happens - if he’s hired by Washington tomorrow for example, he has clearly NOT been their first choice or they would have already hired him. If he is not offered the job in Washington has be become a second tier option like eventually Wade became? Again, if Washington really wanted Dan Quinn as their HC, they would have already hired him.

Either way, no matter what happens DQ does not look like the “hot commodity” coach in waiting but rather the second tier retread that’s available if a team can’t get who they wanted. That’s ultimately what Wade Phillips became. But to Wade’s credit, he also sports something very few other coaches have- a Super Bowl ring. Not as a HC but as a coordinator.

Time will soon tell if Dan Quinn is a HC again. Or the next Wade Phillips.

Quinn only failed once as an NFL HC.
- Belichick failed in Cleveland...

Side Note: The Rams made it to the SB for the 2018 season with Wade as DC. Didn't win but still impressive for very late in his career.

Differences in Quinn and Wade:
Wade would never turn down an HC job like Quinn did last year.

Press conferences. It only took 1 to see that Wade shouldn't be a Head Coach.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

Quinn only failed once as an NFL HC.
- Belichick failed in Cleveland...

Side Note: The Rams made it to the SB for the 2018 season with Wade as DC. Didn't win but still impressive for very late in his career.

Differences in Quinn and Wade:
Wade would never turn down an HC job like Quinn did last year.

Press conferences. It only took 1 to see that Wade shouldn't be a Head Coach.

What job did Quinn turn down?

 

[GoCowboysGo]

Well…he did lead ATL to a SB appearance…and a crushing second half collapse.

It’s hard to believe WAS would hire him, I thought they were looking to change their culture, a new direction with a younger coach. But instead, it seems like retread-ville for them, which kinda makes me a little sad, because I miss the days of a real rivalry that meant something with them, and my hope that it would at least push the Jones’ to keep up.

 

[Kingofholland]

I think you have to consider this isn't Quinn's first time with a defense melting down so I understand the hesistancy from teams. Some coaches are just better coordinators than head coaches where they just have to focus on one side of the ball. Maybe Quinn will fit into that camp, but if he does get the Washington job I just can't see that playing out well for him beyond a few years.

I like Quinn too, I just think his gameplan and scheme got exposed against Green Bay and when the offense isn't performing well the aggressive nature of his defense gets them in a hole. Doesn't mean he won't adapt in 24, but I think his in game adjustments are subpar when the gameplan doesn't work. At this point I'm of the mindset its ok if Quinn leaves, there's many talented pieces on defense now and change can rejuvinate with the right replacement. I'm also thinking if for some reason McCarthy doesn't get it done but the defense is still playing well is Quinn the clear heir for the head coaching job if he's here? I don't know how I would feel about that either

 

[cowboys5xsbs]

Wade Phillips was still a good DC. He had some really good years after leaving Dallas. He was just never cut out for head coaching. His soft culture has permeated this team ever since he was the head guy. Camp cupcake was one of the worst things to ever happen.

 

[HotDog37]

The real issue with Dan Quinn is really that we all saw this type of collapse before in the Superbowl when he was HC of the Falcons. I think that fact coupled with the collapse of the D this year in such an important game for the Cowboys gave Seattle - and is now also giving Washington pause. I do not think he gets the Washington HC job. In fact, he would be lucky to get the DC job there IMO. It all has to do with the Superbowl collapse and the epic collapse against the Packers this year. Not to mention - playing safeties at LB and the mishandling of other positions. His defense is very high risk with potential high reward.

 

[Reality]

I like Dan Quinn. No what anyone thinks of his defense’s atrocious performance against Green Bay in the playoffs, Dan Quinn rescued the Cowboys defense from the “Worst defense in team history” in 2020 to becoming a more than adequate unit the last 2-3 seasons.

In his defense - this year he was not exactly given a great set of LBs to work with, he lost his top CB to a knee injury, and the team’s 2023 #1 draft pick was a major disappointment in year one. (Can’t give up on Mazi yet but he did not have a good first year) Not making excuses, it’s just true that DQ‘s defensive gun was missing a bullet or two. No matter what, he is clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator IMO.

But I do wonder: Has Dan Quinn basically become Wade Phillips? A great defensive coordinator who should not be a head coach? We Cowboys fans watched the Wade Phillips years as our head coach with great pain. We saw a roster that Bill Parcells had molded into a top shelf #1 seed by 2007, only to watch in horror as that #1 seed in the NFC choked it all away in the divisional round vs the giants. And by 2010, after 3 and a half frustrating seasons with one wild card win, the team had quit on Wade.

Sadly, Wade Phillips was clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator. He eventually won a SB ring with Denver in 2015 as their defensive coordinator. Despite 3 tours of duty as an NFL head coach, Wade Phillips made it clear, he was a better coordinator than he was a HC. Is that true about Dan Quinn? I don’t know.

What’s sad for Dan Quinn is no matter what happens - if he’s hired by Washington tomorrow for example, he has clearly NOT been their first choice or they would have already hired him. If he is not offered the job in Washington has be become a second tier option like eventually Wade became? Again, if Washington really wanted Dan Quinn as their HC, they would have already hired him.

Either way, no matter what happens DQ does not look like the “hot commodity” coach in waiting but rather the second tier retread that’s available if a team can’t get who they wanted. That’s ultimately what Wade Phillips became. But to Wade’s credit, he also sports something very few other coaches have- a Super Bowl ring. Not as a HC but as a coordinator.

Time will soon tell if Dan Quinn is a HC again. Or the next Wade Phillips.

I think it's less about being Wade Phillips and more about being a defensive coach.

A head coach usually has an offensive OR defensive background, but not both, at least not at the NFL level.

That means, whichever background they have, they were likely hired for that reason and they can impact their team on that side of the ball.

The problem is that defensive coaches are at a disadvantage because fans and teams love scoring points more than they like keeping games close or the scores low.

Fans want to see their teams score 25+ points per game because the more points you score, the more teams you can compete with.

Sports media spends most of their time talking about the biggest offensive players of the last week. Sure, they have segments on how some defensive player got X sacks or a team's defense is impressive, but most of their talk is going to be on offensive players when they talk about specific players.

Holding teams to less-than-20 points is the sign of a good defensive team, but even the best defenses are going to give up more than 20 points in some games due to special teams blunders, interceptions/turnovers from your offense, blown plays, etc.

If you look around the league, what teams are playing late in the season? Chiefs, 49ers, Bills, Ravens, Dolphins, Cowboys, Lions, Eagles, Packers. While some of those teams have good defenses, they all have solid offenses that can win games in spite of their defense.

For example, here are the head coaches of some of the playoff teams along with their background focus ..

Reid (Offense), Shanahan (Offense), McDermott (Defense), Harbaugh (Offense), McCarthy (Offense), Campbell (Offense), Sirianni (Offense), LaFleur (Offense)

As you can see, most of the playoff coaches have offense backgrounds.

I think the NFL has shifted away from defense due to rule changes and protections given to offensive players, especially quarterbacks, so winning in the NFL favors offenses.

Any NFL team hiring a defensive coach as their head coach will be at a disadvantage because it will lead to one of two scenarios.

Either their offensive coordinator will be bad and the defensive-minded head coach will be unable to fix the offense on-the-fly during the season .. OR .. their offensive coordinator will be great and they will be hired away by another team after one or two good seasons and they will have to be replaced.

 

[eromeopolk]

Nope. He will have DTs in Washington that has not fired Eric Bienemy as OC. I think they should give the job to Bienemy. But just like Garrett, Dan Quinn was sabotaging the Big Blue M&M or all of a sudden went defensive construction brain dead. They could not stop the run all year for obvious reasons.

Dan Quinn knows you cannot win games on defense without winning the trenches first (he was a DL coach). He made Micah a LB into a DE in a 4/3 and had Mazi a NT lose weight. Get real. Legion of Boom was a 4-3 single high safety defense. Name the great 13-14 sack per season DEs on that team? He had a bunch of run stoppers that could rush the passer after stopping the run sprinkled in Bruce Irvin/Frank Clark, 6-0+ CBs that could hit and catch, and a great FS (Earl Thomas that could cover up any leaks and make big plays. At Atlanta he had a Pro Bowl DT teamed with a sack artist in John Abraham.

Again, remember the Legion of Boom was not Dan Quinn's creation. He was the DL coach of a bunch of hard hitting DL run stoppers that earn the right to pass rush. The DB coach was Kris Richards who we had as a co-DC that should have been kept as DC. The nickname Legion of Boom was for the secondary. Later it was given to the entire Super Bowl era Seahawk defense.

Dan Quinn showed you that he could coach a team to a Super Bowl but will blow a 25 point lead. So he is better Head Coach than Winnie the Pooh/Son of a Bum in that respect.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Differences in Quinn and Wade:
Wade would never turn down an HC job like Quinn did last year

This ^^^^^^ he never hid his desire to be a head coach, that's for sure. (lol) In fact, I think his constant self-promotion turned off owners and league insiders.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I feel for him.......I'm sure he's disappointed after being passed over 7/8 times but I don't think the door is closed. Still think he will have other opportunities IF he can lead his D on a deep playoff run.

 

[Cowboyny]

I like Dan Quinn. No what anyone thinks of his defense’s atrocious performance against Green Bay in the playoffs, Dan Quinn rescued the Cowboys defense from the “Worst defense in team history” in 2020 to becoming a more than adequate unit the last 2-3 seasons.

In his defense - this year he was not exactly given a great set of LBs to work with, he lost his top CB to a knee injury, and the team’s 2023 #1 draft pick was a major disappointment in year one. (Can’t give up on Mazi yet but he did not have a good first year) Not making excuses, it’s just true that DQ‘s defensive gun was missing a bullet or two. No matter what, he is clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator IMO.

But I do wonder: Has Dan Quinn basically become Wade Phillips? A great defensive coordinator who should not be a head coach? We Cowboys fans watched the Wade Phillips years as our head coach with great pain. We saw a roster that Bill Parcells had molded into a top shelf #1 seed by 2007, only to watch in horror as that #1 seed in the NFC choked it all away in the divisional round vs the giants. And by 2010, after 3 and a half frustrating seasons with one wild card win, the team had quit on Wade.

Sadly, Wade Phillips was clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator. He eventually won a SB ring with Denver in 2015 as their defensive coordinator. Despite 3 tours of duty as an NFL head coach, Wade Phillips made it clear, he was a better coordinator than he was a HC. Is that true about Dan Quinn? I don’t know.

What’s sad for Dan Quinn is no matter what happens - if he’s hired by Washington tomorrow for example, he has clearly NOT been their first choice or they would have already hired him. If he is not offered the job in Washington has be become a second tier option like eventually Wade became? Again, if Washington really wanted Dan Quinn as their HC, they would have already hired him.

Either way, no matter what happens DQ does not look like the “hot commodity” coach in waiting but rather the second tier retread that’s available if a team can’t get who they wanted. That’s ultimately what Wade Phillips became. But to Wade’s credit, he also sports something very few other coaches have- a Super Bowl ring. Not as a HC but as a coordinator.

Time will soon tell if Dan Quinn is a HC again. Or the next Wade Phillips.

In fairness to Quinn, his Atlanta team was a half away from winning a Super Bowl. In my opinion, he is a good DC, but should of been fired after that playoff performance against the Packers. This day in age, it's all about the modern day offenses, makes little sense to me to hire a defensive HC.

 

[quickccc]

I like Dan Quinn. No what anyone thinks of his defense’s atrocious performance against Green Bay in the playoffs, Dan Quinn rescued the Cowboys defense from the “Worst defense in team history” in 2020 to becoming a more than adequate unit the last 2-3 seasons.

In his defense - this year he was not exactly given a great set of LBs to work with, he lost his top CB to a knee injury, and the team’s 2023 #1 draft pick was a major disappointment in year one. (Can’t give up on Mazi yet but he did not have a good first year) Not making excuses, it’s just true that DQ‘s defensive gun was missing a bullet or two. No matter what, he is clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator IMO.

But I do wonder: Has Dan Quinn basically become Wade Phillips? A great defensive coordinator who should not be a head coach? We Cowboys fans watched the Wade Phillips years as our head coach with great pain. We saw a roster that Bill Parcells had molded into a top shelf #1 seed by 2007, only to watch in horror as that #1 seed in the NFC choked it all away in the divisional round vs the giants. And by 2010, after 3 and a half frustrating seasons with one wild card win, the team had quit on Wade.

Sadly, Wade Phillips was clearly an outstanding defensive coordinator. He eventually won a SB ring with Denver in 2015 as their defensive coordinator. Despite 3 tours of duty as an NFL head coach, Wade Phillips made it clear, he was a better coordinator than he was a HC. Is that true about Dan Quinn? I don’t know.

What’s sad for Dan Quinn is no matter what happens - if he’s hired by Washington tomorrow for example, he has clearly NOT been their first choice or they would have already hired him. If he is not offered the job in Washington has be become a second tier option like eventually Wade became? Again, if Washington really wanted Dan Quinn as their HC, they would have already hired him.

Either way, no matter what happens DQ does not look like the “hot commodity” coach in waiting but rather the second tier retread that’s available if a team can’t get who they wanted. That’s ultimately what Wade Phillips became. But to Wade’s credit, he also sports something very few other coaches have- a Super Bowl ring. Not as a HC but as a coordinator.

Time will soon tell if Dan Quinn is a HC again. Or the next Wade Phillips.

The question to ask with ANY of the three top coaches, ..whether HC ..OC … DC …
Do you expand and evolve ?
Do you have extensions and constant showing and adding new to your scheme ?

-That’s what could make you difficult to counter scheme against. That’s what makes you less predictable.
That’s what makes you tougher to compete against.

- You watch the Chiefs, and of course they have the most elite QB in the NFL in Mahomes – but watch their actual play design- play call and scheme and they are ALWAYS giving opposing teams different looks and formations, shifting & moving parts pre-snap, and they are constantly come at you ..at all angles, pass or run, mass misdirection – and they get everyone involved.

- Most times it’s difficult to figure out their tendencies and it’s not matter who Reid’s OC has been ( ala Nagy, Eric Bienemy)
Ditto with the Kyle Shanahan, .. Sean McVey.. Ben Johnson …

- Ditto for DC’s – an old school like Marinelli is set in stone, not flexible and very simple to counter scheme .
Wade Phillips one gap 3-4 is more pass rush oriented designed than most traditional 3-4 schemes – but for whatever reasons, teams can
eventually exploit it, as it’s more a quick fix, than a long-term plan, and a Wade does not evolve or know any other flexible way, and it eventually wears thin.

- Mazi ? Dunno what the new plan/new DC will be for him developmental wise. I’d be interested to see what change in staff would be with DT coaches will be, becuz a vast lot will depend upon Mazi’s coaches new or same.

- 2nd place, 2nd return interview does not always mean failure. I’m sure these others like Cincy, Buffalo, Detroit had others in mind before their eventual HC hires.

- Big thing for Quinn in Wash, will be the front office – just as it was for Detroit Lions, .. he just has to place his key assistants in place in all phases.
Just like he did in ATL during their SB run (ala Kyle Shanahan)

 

[Mark]

What job did Quinn turn down?

More accurately, he withdrew his name from consideration for any available HC job.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

More accurately, he withdrew his name from consideration for any available HC job.

He only did that cause positions had been filled. He thought he was on his way to Denver. Then they pulled the rug out from underneath him.

 

[JBS]

Whether Quinn is first choice or not means absolutely nothing. What he does as the head coach of the commanders is all that matters

 

[Mark]

Whether Quinn is first choice or not means absolutely nothing. What he does as the head coach of the commanders is all that matters

Wonder if he'll continue to sports the sweats/backwards baseball cap look as HC in WAS. Of course, he'll have to stand out in the sideline elements for three-quarters of his games now, too.

But, seriously, he has his work cut out. Actually less pressure on him taking over a poor team in disarray, as opposed to a better team on the playoff brink.

 

[Captain-Crash]

Wade had two losers working against him. Do they need to be named?

 

[CCBoy]

Wade Phillips was still a good DC. He had some really good years after leaving Dallas. He was just never cut out for head coaching. His soft culture has permeated this team ever since he was the head guy. Camp cupcake was one of the worst things to ever happen.

Camp cupcake is being served up to Tyron Smith this whole last season...no practices.