Has the template for building a D changed?

[CouchCoach]

For years, the template was build from front to back, the theory being a better front helps the back end and I used to buy into that but my thinking has been shifting and it started with watching Belichick keep trying to draft CB's, sign high end CB's and spend more than he usually does for positions with that back end. He had some good DL but his emphasis was on that back end. And he was willing to part with a good DL a lot quicker than a DB.

When that template was in place, the QB's were mostly pocket passers and the WR's were smaller. The CB's were not asked to cover as long because in theory, the pass rush would force the QB to either release the ball or get tackled.

Today, the QB's are more mobile, throw on the move buying time with their feet or they throw the quick release passes, basically negating the pass rush. And the game has shifted to a passing game.

The WR's are as fast but bigger and stronger and harder to cover and even the TE's are becoming XL WR's.

So, should the emphasis be on the back end working forward or should it still be the old template.

The Cowboys were terrible against the run but I am not letting that sway me because I think that was more new system and being in the right place than talent and tackling. I do believe the talent in this front 4 is better than that stat. They picked the wrong year to change D systems. The objective is to fool the opposing offenses, not themselves, and far too many times this resembled that Rob Ryan defense of dysfunction.

So, what do you think, has it changed. Should our emphasis be on the back 4 or front 4?

 

[CATCH17]

Look at it like this.

If you were playing QB.. Would you rather bet on yourself to make a pass into tight windows or would you rather try to get rid of the ball quick because guys are in your face hitting you over and over.

Pressure busts pipes.

Pressure can also force the best QB's into making stupid mistakes.






As far as the modern day QB goes.

They are just tough to stop.. I still want guys who get after the QB because I still think giving the QB less time is what wins at the end of the day but as time goes on my opinion may change.

I honestly think the bend don't break style of defense is probably the best way to defend for the majority of teams who don't have absolute freaks on their DL.

I think the goal for the majority of defenses should be to stop the run, don't give up big pass plays, and hope a turnover falls in your lap.

 

[Bullflop]

An ideal defensive plan is one that provides the highest degree of run stoppage with the best secondary coverage available. That's always the ideal template to shoot for. Demands on the team to select the best one available varies from one year to the next. The best GMs will see to that.

 

[charron]

Either, both. But do it well. The key is to build a really good to elite group not just a singular elite guy in the group. Financially its cheaper to pay 2 top CB's than 2 elite DL. We do not have much to build either way and they are going to want to use more resources to prop up a 40 million dollar QB.

 

[Diehardblues]

For years, the template was build from front to back, the theory being a better front helps the back end and I used to buy into that but my thinking has been shifting and it started with watching Belichick keep trying to draft CB's, sign high end CB's and spend more than he usually does for positions with that back end. He had some good DL but his emphasis was on that back end. And he was willing to part with a good DL a lot quicker than a DB.

When that template was in place, the QB's were mostly pocket passers and the WR's were smaller. The CB's were not asked to cover as long because in theory, the pass rush would force the QB to either release the ball or get tackled.

Today, the QB's are more mobile, throw on the move buying time with their feet or they throw the quick release passes, basically negating the pass rush. And the game has shifted to a passing game.

The WR's are as fast but bigger and stronger and harder to cover and even the TE's are becoming XL WR's.

So, should the emphasis be on the back end working forward or should it still be the old template.

The Cowboys were terrible against the run but I am not letting that sway me because I think that was more new system and being in the right place than talent and tackling. I do believe the talent in this front 4 is better than that stat. They picked the wrong year to change D systems. The objective is to fool the opposing offenses, not themselves, and far too many times this resembled that Rob Ryan defense of dysfunction.

So, what do you think, has it changed. Should our emphasis be on the back 4 or front 4?

I think if you look deeper into Belichicks tactic he continuously drafted DL. And used FA to go after DB if needed.

Seems like Ksboys in recent years had a good thread or posts on this. He doesn’t always use his 1st round picks on DL but used several picks for a strong rotation.

My opinion based on what I’ve read and heard is regardless who you have in secondary that without the disruption and pressure up front it won’t be enough.

And if you have that disruption at LOS it will support lesser talent in secondary. Sounds logical to me.

Here's the Patriots drafts. I think when KS presented his post was when he had several drafts where he drafted DT and DE in top 3 rounds for several years in a row. If you scroll down a couple years you see this. Heavy focus overall on defense in draft. On both DL and secondary.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

 

[john van brocklin]

For years, the template was build from front to back, the theory being a better front helps the back end and I used to buy into that but my thinking has been shifting and it started with watching Belichick keep trying to draft CB's, sign high end CB's and spend more than he usually does for positions with that back end. He had some good DL but his emphasis was on that back end. And he was willing to part with a good DL a lot quicker than a DB.

When that template was in place, the QB's were mostly pocket passers and the WR's were smaller. The CB's were not asked to cover as long because in theory, the pass rush would force the QB to either release the ball or get tackled.

Today, the QB's are more mobile, throw on the move buying time with their feet or they throw the quick release passes, basically negating the pass rush. And the game has shifted to a passing game.

The WR's are as fast but bigger and stronger and harder to cover and even the TE's are becoming XL WR's.

So, should the emphasis be on the back end working forward or should it still be the old template.

The Cowboys were terrible against the run but I am not letting that sway me because I think that was more new system and being in the right place than talent and tackling. I do believe the talent in this front 4 is better than that stat. They picked the wrong year to change D systems. The objective is to fool the opposing offenses, not themselves, and far too many times this resembled that Rob Ryan defense of dysfunction.

So, what do you think, has it changed. Should our emphasis be on the back 4 or front 4?

Be nice if it was both!

 

[CATCH17]

I think if you look deeper into Belichicks tactic he continuously drafted DL. And used FA to go after DB if needed.

Seems like Ksboys in recent years had a good thread or posts on this. He doesn’t always use his 1st round picks on DL but used several picks for a strong rotation.

My opinion based on what I’ve read and heard is regardless who you have in secondary that without the disruption and pressure up front it won’t be enough.

And if you have that disruption at LOS it will support lesser talent in secondary. Sounds logical to me.

I was about to say the same thing..

Belichick likes to buy DB's and draft pass rush guys.

Seattle had a great defense but I always think of their DB's when I think of the legion.

Now San Fran last year had a great pass rush.

 

[Diehardblues]

I was about to say the same thing..

Belichick likes to buy DB's and draft pass rush guys.

Seattle had a great defense but I always think of their DB's when I think of the legion.

Now San Fran last year had a great pass rush.

Their secondary received more hoopla but it was that DL around Bennett that actually delivered the Boom. And once he left and DL was broke up was when their defense begun to decline.

 

[ondaedg]

For years, the template was build from front to back, the theory being a better front helps the back end and I used to buy into that but my thinking has been shifting and it started with watching Belichick keep trying to draft CB's, sign high end CB's and spend more than he usually does for positions with that back end. He had some good DL but his emphasis was on that back end. And he was willing to part with a good DL a lot quicker than a DB.

When that template was in place, the QB's were mostly pocket passers and the WR's were smaller. The CB's were not asked to cover as long because in theory, the pass rush would force the QB to either release the ball or get tackled.

Today, the QB's are more mobile, throw on the move buying time with their feet or they throw the quick release passes, basically negating the pass rush. And the game has shifted to a passing game.

The WR's are as fast but bigger and stronger and harder to cover and even the TE's are becoming XL WR's.

So, should the emphasis be on the back end working forward or should it still be the old template.

The Cowboys were terrible against the run but I am not letting that sway me because I think that was more new system and being in the right place than talent and tackling. I do believe the talent in this front 4 is better than that stat. They picked the wrong year to change D systems. The objective is to fool the opposing offenses, not themselves, and far too many times this resembled that Rob Ryan defense of dysfunction.

So, what do you think, has it changed. Should our emphasis be on the back 4 or front 4?

I read an article recently that discussed how the Pats have focused more resources on the DBs. The numbers don't lie though and since 2010 the top teams each and every season are usually the teams who take the ball away the most. The idea that you NEED a great defensive line to force turnovers is dying away slowly and KC and the Pats are perfect examples. As good as Brady and Mahomes are they have been gifted a ton of takeaways by their defenses. A good defensive line with great DBs are the way to go along with a scheme that isn't predictable. Is that too much to ask for?

 

[Diehardblues]

It’s always a combination of both. As always balance is the key.

But if history tells us anything it always begins up front. It did with Doomsday 1 and II. Fearsome foursome , Purple People Eaters, Iron Curtain, Legions of Boom. Tampa’s defense , Bears defense. The list goes on .

I’m trying to think of a generational defense that didn’t begin up front?

 

[Haimerej]

So, should the emphasis be on the back end working forward or should it still be the old template.

Games are won up front. When you can't control the line of scrimmage, you see historically bad defense- like this year.

The Cowboys were terrible against the run but I am not letting that sway me because I think that was more new system and being in the right place than talent and tackling. I do believe the talent in this front 4 is better than that stat. They picked the wrong year to change D systems. The objective is to fool the opposing offenses, not themselves, and far too many times this resembled that Rob Ryan defense of dysfunction.

It was the talent not being able to function in the new system. Every guy they wanted to 2 gap simply couldn't do it. That's why they had to simplify so guys could play faster. I don't think this is something these guys can improve on either. I just don't see anyone with that skillset.

The biggest brightside is who? Gallimore? How much of an impact was he making? For all the talk of, "improvement," from the defense over the last few weeks they were still giving up 139 rushing yards per game over 6 of their last 7- adding that 7th game (BAL) takes it to 161 yards per game.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I think both need to be at least good in order to have a good defense. That being said, I think you are better off with an elite secondary. No matter how good your pass rush is you still need to cover or the qb can just get the ball out quick.

 

[jazzcat22]

As in all sports. You’re build up the middle.
In football you build from the trenches. On defense from the front to the back and from the inside to the outside.

so we need big run stuffing DTs that can also get upfield and penetration. Bust up the OL and allow the DE’s to contain and sack the QB. This frees up the LBs to do their job allowing the secondary do theirs.

yes this is obvious but can’t be stated enough. We need DTs which we may have a few but need more. We also need 2 more LBs and a S actually 2, and another CB.

all this can be addressed in the draft with a few depth and stop gap types in FA. See what we have and get the rest next year.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

You make some good points CouchCoach. The league is more passing oriented, and CB play is more important. I also think very good CB's are hard to find. That being said, I still think the DL is the foundation of the defense. If the DL is improved, the CB's look better. While the opposite is also true, it is to a lesser extent.

Without a solid DL, offenses can use a punishing rushing attack. It doesn't really matter how good your LB's are, if offensive lineman are reaching the second level, or the LB's are consistently facing RB's with a full head of steam. The Cowboy's horrific run defense this past season was far more a result of poor line play, than poor LB play.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

My opinion based on what I’ve read and heard is regardless who you have in secondary that without the disruption and pressure up front it won’t be enough.

Exactly. Even an average NFL QB given unlimited time will pick you apart.

 

[Proof]

In a vacuum you go DL 99/100 times. In reality it’s working with what’s available when you draft and potentially FA.

Stephen Gilmore was just defensive player of the year, and I doubt he gets taken in the top 20 of an all defensive player redraft

 

[big dog cowboy]

Which position applies more pressure on a QB to hurry throws or make bad throws?

DL

 

[TequilaCowboy]

You still have to strengthen your front first. A great dominating front, kind of like WFT has done, makes your average DBs better. Even a Deion Sanders could not cover receivers forever with lack of pressure. i remember irvin used to torch Sanders sometimes when he was a 49er. And with the rules stricter now, it is even more difficult. It will be interesting how WFT does the second contract on the front four but you have to begin there. Your LB and DB look better when you have that pressure on the QB.

 

[kskboys]

I was about to say the same thing..

Belichick likes to buy DB's and draft pass rush guys.

Seattle had a great defense but I always think of their DB's when I think of the legion.

Now San Fran last year had a great pass rush.

SEA's D started w/ the deepest DLine rotation in the NFL. When they lost that, their D took a major step backward. The DB's just got the press. Sorta like the triplets got the press, but the OLine was the most important factor.

 

[ultron]

The Eagles won a super bowl with a backup QB with a dominant DLine, OLine, but very mediocre WRs and DBs - so yea if we can somehow keep Aldon, and Randy - develop Gallimore into a beast and add another pro bowl level DT to pair with DLaw, things could really change FAST in big D. The Washington team made the playoffs with basically just a good Dline so I think we’ll dominate this division for the next decade if we nail this offseason.