Hatcher/Potential on Defense

[Galian Beast]

I recall when we first got Hatcher, there was a lot of high hopes for him to be a pass rushing defensive end in the 3-4.

He really didn't show that under Phillips, but has really started to shine with Rob Ryan.

I wonder how many other players Rob Ryan could have saved from mediocrity.

I wonder how well Bowen would do here or Jason or Brandon Williams...

 

[theogt]

Wade did here, and has in every other place he's been, get the most out of his defensive players, PARTICULARLY his passrushers. If Hatcher didn't perform under Wade it's because Hatcher wasn't performing, not because of anything Wade did or didn't do. Sometimes the players are crappy because the players are crappy.

With respect to Hatcher, the guy was a beast from Week 1 in the preseason. By that point, how many days had he spent with Rob Ryan? 20? 30? Perhaps he can turn water into wine as well.

 

[Galian Beast]

Wade did here, and has in every other place he's been, get the most out of his defensive players, PARTICULARLY his passrushers. If Hatcher didn't perform under Wade it's because Hatcher wasn't performing, not because of anything Wade did or didn't do. Sometimes the players are crappy because the players are crappy.

With respect to Hatcher, the guy was a beast from Week 1 in the preseason. By that point, how many days had he been with Rob Ryan? 20? 30? Perhaps he can turn water into wine as well.

Yet Hatcher in two games has been great...

 

[Fletch]

I recall when we first got Hatcher, there was a lot of high hopes for him to be a pass rushing defensive end in the 3-4.

He really didn't show that under Phillips, but has really started to shine with Rob Ryan.

I wonder how many other players Rob Ryan could have saved from mediocrity.

I wonder how well Bowen would do here or Jason or Brandon Williams...

Hatcher is a Grambling University product whom I always thought had a ton of potential. With that said, I was watching the Pitt/ND game today and heard the announcer (after a 67 yd TD run by ND) say that it's not the scheme... it's the talent that makes the team.

When it comes to Hatcher, I believe he already had the talent, we just needed the scheme to make coaches and fans believers in #97. Rob Ryan is doing a great job of maximizing the guys we have and I think Hatcher will be key to the defense, not only Monday night, but this entire season.

 

[gimmesix]

I recall when we first got Hatcher, there was a lot of high hopes for him to be a pass rushing defensive end in the 3-4.

He really didn't show that under Phillips, but has really started to shine with Rob Ryan.

I wonder how many other players Rob Ryan could have saved from mediocrity.

I wonder how well Bowen would do here or Jason or Brandon Williams...

Sometimes, it just clicks on with players and sometimes, they just are fortunate enough to be put in the right position to succeed.

With Hatcher, it appears to be a little of both. Under Parcells and Phillips, he flashed potential, but never showed consistency. He looked a lot more consistent with his technique this preseason.

The "right position" for him seems to be his move to right end, typically the weak side of the offensive formation. Of course, it probably helps that that's "normally" the side DeMarcus Ware lines up on.

Maybe the fact that Stephen Bowen progressed faster than Hatcher reduced his opportunities to shine, but Hatcher's certainly taking advantage of his opportunity now. I've been most pleasantly surprised by his play against the run.

 

[shockandroll]

I recall when we first got Hatcher, there was a lot of high hopes for him to be a pass rushing defensive end in the 3-4.

He really didn't show that under Phillips, but has really started to shine with Rob Ryan.

I wonder how many other players Rob Ryan could have saved from mediocrity.

I wonder how well Bowen would do here or Jason or Brandon Williams...

He showed flashes when Wade was here. He was buried pretty deep in the rotation and did not get the same chances he's getting now. He also has commented on how hard he worked this off season and how much he studied.

I do think some of it is Ryan's scheme. I think a much of it is Hatch just busting his butt and finally reaching his potential.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think its unfair to put Hatchers lack of development on Wade. It starts with the players. So when a player under Wade played over his head he deserves credit but when he stunk its Wade's fault?

 

[theogt]

He showed flashes when Wade was here. He was buried pretty deep in the rotation and did not get the same chances he's getting now. He also has commented on how hard he worked this off season and how much he studied.

I do think some of it is Ryan's scheme. I think a much of it is Hatch just busting his butt and finally reaching his potential.

He never looked like this really. Not even flashes. And he had opportunities (about 16 snaps per game last year). He's getting what he's getting now because of how he performed in preseason. He basically outperformed everyone to the point where it was impossible to sit him.

 

[birdwells1]

Wade did here, and has in every other place he's been, get the most out of his defensive players, PARTICULARLY his passrushers. If Hatcher didn't perform under Wade it's because Hatcher wasn't performing, not because of anything Wade did or didn't do. Sometimes the players are crappy because the players are crappy.

With respect to Hatcher, the guy was a beast from Week 1 in the preseason. By that point, how many days had he spent with Rob Ryan? 20? 30? Perhaps he can turn water into wine as well.

If anyone thinks it's just a light has been turned on then they are sadly mistaken. Hatcher has always had this potential but the scheme he played in under Wade did not call for the DEs to be playmaker only to occupy blockers.

I'm a big Ryan fan because he's unpredictable and will attack the QB with anyone of the 11 on the field and it's a beautiful thing to watch.

 

[cml750]

If anyone thinks it's just a light has been turned on then they are sadly mistaken. Hatcher has always had this potential but the scheme he played in under Wade did not call for the DEs to be playmaker only to occupy blockers.

I'm a big Ryan fan because he's unpredictable and will attack the QB with anyone of the 11 on the field and it's a beautiful thing to watch.

I agree! The scheme matters and Wades scheme was not set up for the DE's to pass rush. They were supposed to stuff the run and occupy blockers.

 

[CATCH17]

Yet Hatcher in two games has been great...

Yeah he's playing elite.

 

[adbutcher]

I agree! The scheme matters and Wades scheme was not set up for the DE's to pass rush. They were supposed to stuff the run and occupy blockers.

It really is a combination of the two. You cannot take a mediocre player and make him elite with a scheme but you can make him more effective. Likewise, a poor scheme can diminish the effectiveness of an elite player.

The good coaches are always looking for ways to put their best players on the field and to put them in the best and most comfortable way for the players to make plays.

Coaches that are one trick ponies that constantly try to put square pegs into round holes don't win in today's NFL.

 

[FLcowboy]

..........................

The "right position" for him seems to be his move to right end, typically the weak side of the offensive formation. Of course, it probably helps that that's "normally" the side DeMarcus Ware lines up on..................................

You make a very good point. I would imagine Ware occupies the Left Tackle's attention more than Hatcher. It seems when he backed up Spears' left side, he was fighting off the tight end as well. It's also easy to assume he is growing as a player. Sometimes small school players need time to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

 

[shockandroll]

He never looked like this really. Not even flashes. And he had opportunities (about 16 snaps per game last year). He's getting what he's getting now because of how he performed in preseason. He basically outperformed everyone to the point where it was impossible to sit him.

Agreed, he never looked like this really, that's why I said he showed flashes and not that he looked just like this. He did show flashes, he had a 3 tackle 1 sack game against the Lions last year for example. I know that's really far off from his 4 tackle 2 sack performance last week, but it is a flash.

He did not get the same type of opportunities because he is not only playing more now, he's playing in more consecutive snaps. It's harder to get it done when you are in and out of the game all the time like was was under Wade.

I agree he earned the spot this year but let's not forget how bad Igor was and that Spears was hurt. He had a chance to get the playing time in the preseason and took advantage of it.

I think he improved in the off season both physically and mentally. I don't think it's fair to compare the chances he's been given this year to what he got when Wade was here. Wade did not sit starters and brought them back after injury even if the guy behind them was playing well. Hatch also had to compete with Bowen for snaps until this year.