Have we become so used to Jerry that anytime he does bare minimum we praise him?

[LouBrown]

If you can't stop the run, there is no need to worry about a pass rush. You would think we learned that lesson.

Pass defense matters more than run defense.

 

[Chasing6]

Pass defense matters more than run defense.

Do you not recall us having a great pass rush with Micah and getting blown out giving 200 yards on the ground?

 

[LouBrown]

Do you not recall us having a great pass rush with Micah and getting blown out giving 200 yards on the ground?

Doesn't matter.

In the Green Bay playoff game, for instance, the pass defense was considerably worse than the run defense. The pass rush wasn't great and the corner play was horrific.

Yardage totals without any context don't matter.

 

[Chasing6]

Doesn't matter.

In the Green Bay playoff game, for instance, the pass defense was considerably worse than the run defense. The pass rush wasn't great and the corner play was horrific.

Yardage totals without any context don't matter.

You understand when you can't stop the run and your DB's are leading the team in tackles, and the have to cheat up to stop the run it effects the pass defense.

There is a reason crappy running teams do not do a lot of play action.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Do you not recall us having a great pass rush with Micah and getting blown out giving 200 yards on the ground?

This is my point. One of my biggest beers with Quinn was that we had no beef in the middle. Imagine if we had Quinnen Williams when Micah was still here. We might have actually been able to BOTH rush the passer AND stop the run more efficiently. Plus, Micah probably wouldn't have worn down later in the seasons from a lack of front 4 support.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Not really.

You can hide a poor run defender at edge. You can't hide a poor passrusher at edge.

Patriots lost the SB because they couldn’t stop the run.

 

[LouBrown]

You understand when you can't stop the run and your DB's are leading the team in tackles, and the have to cheat up to stop the run it effects the pass defense.

There is a reason crappy running teams do not do a lot of play action.

That's not what happened against GB, for instance.

There's no correlation between run success and play action success.

 

[Chasing6]

This is my point. One of my biggest beers with Quinn was that we had no beef in the middle. Imagine if we had Quinnen Williams when Micah was still here. We might have actually been able to BOTH rush the passer AND stop the run more efficiently. Plus, Micah probably wouldn't have worn down later in the seasons from a lack of front 4 support.

This was a problem well before Quinn. It was a GM problem who believed the NFL was a 7 on 7 passing league.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Doesn't matter.

In the Green Bay playoff game, for instance, the pass defense was considerably worse than the run defense. The pass rush wasn't great and the corner play was horrific.

Yardage totals without any context don't matter.

You do realise part of the issue was that we had no beef on the dline right? There's a reason Parsons always wore down late in the season....in part because Mazi was useless. If we actually had a NT worth a damn that could actually clog the middle, we might have actually been able to keep Parsons fresh. At least now, our dline has a lot more beef. An oline can't double team Williams, Clark, AND Otito. Someone is going to get free and force the QB to move right into the LB arms. Or, if in that situation the QB tries to throw it, that should give Bland a chance to get a pick 6 like he did a lot in 2023.

 

[LouBrown]

You do realise part of the issue was that we had no beef on the dline right?

Doesn't matter.

You don't need to eat doubles to have a good run defense.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

This was a problem well before Quinn. It was a GM problem who believed the NFL was a 7 on 7 passing league.

I agree, but still worth mentioning. It's not an either or in my view. We should be able to be good at both. Imo, stopping the run and pass are both just as important. I may be wrong, and please correct if so as I am 33 lol. But I believe that the 90s Cowboys were good at stopping both. And that's what we need to be now too.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Doesn't matter.

You don't need to eat doubles to have a good run defense.

If you can eat doubles at the front, then your linebackers are able to shoot through and down the back behind the line. So, yes, it does matter. And it keeps your pass rushers fresh so that they're not constantly battling 300+ pound olineman as the DTs are doing the dirty work for them. Imo, that's why Parsons would wear down during the season. We had nobody to take the oline off of him.

 

[LouBrown]

If you can eat doubles at the front, then your linebackers are able to shoot through

Sure but you don't need to do that.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Sure but you don't need to do that.

I think we do. If we want our pass rush to be able to succeed and our run d to succeed, then we do need it in my view. And I'm glad we finally have that.

 

[Chasing6]

I agree, but still worth mentioning. It's not an either or in my view. We should be able to be good at both. Imo, stopping the run and pass are both just as important. I may be wrong, and please correct if so as I am 33 lol. But I believe that the 90s Cowboys were good at stopping both. And that's what we need to be now too.

You are correct, but I doubt it was Quinn's fault. Jerry for years did not believe in the value of DT's.

 

[LouBrown]

I think we do. If we want our pass rush to be able to succeed and our run d to succeed, then we do need it in my view. And I'm glad we finally have that.

For a passrush to succeed you need players who win 1-1 battles or blitz to numbers.
For a run defense to succeed you just need numbers advantages and LBers who can be gap disciplined to play half a man.

You don't need a space eating doubles in either scenario. It is a way to do it, but it's not necessary. Good LBers don't need to run free, they need to defeat blocks. If your LBs are just constantly running free, they might as well be corners.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

You are correct, but I doubt it was Quinn's fault. Jerry for years did not believe in the value of DT's.

That may be, but Quinn seemed to be more of a finesse and stunt style. But maybe that's what Jerry forced him into. I wanted our defence to be much more physical. I want to be clear that I do not like the Eagles lol. But one of the reasons they were successful (along with the Seahawks) is that they are physical. The Ravens in their prime were physical. I wanted that from our defence, and I'm glad to see we are trying to finally do that.

 

[Chasing6]

I think we do. If we want our pass rush to be able to succeed and our run d to succeed, then we do need it in my view. And I'm glad we finally have that.

If the Dline can collapse the pocket, it is much easier for the DE/OLB to get to home to the QB.

This is why we are willing to keep Steele at RT he can get beat to the outside and Dak can step up in the pocket comfortably with Smith/Bebee/Booker - plus Ferguson will babysit Steele frequently, again.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

For a passrush to succeed you need players who win 1-1 battles or blitz to numbers.
For a run defense to succeed you just need numbers advantages and LBers who can be gap disciplined to play half a man.

You don't need a space eating doubles in either scenario. It is a way to do it, but it's not necessary. Good LBers don't need to run free, they need to defeat blocks. If your LBs are just constantly running free, they might as well be corners.

If you can force the QB to roll out into the arms of your linebackers, that's just as valuable. Or, if we can get Justin Houston and Eze to collapse the QB to the middle,then they're forcing the QB right into the arms of Quinnen Williams. That's a bad catch 22 for the opponent. Not to mention that Quinnen, Clark, and Otito should be able to help Overshown be able to beat any remaining blocks. Let's not forget, he was still recovering from an injury last season. He should be fully healthy this year. With the dline we should have this year, he should be able to feast, and our DBs should be able to mop up the rest.

 

[LouBrown]

If you can force the QB to roll out into the arms of your linebackers, that's just as valuable. Or, if we can get Justin Houston and Eze to collapse the QB to the middle,then they're forcing the QB right into the arms of Quinnen Williams. That's a bad catch 22 for the opponent. Not to mention that Quinnen, Clark, and Otito should be able to help Overshown be able to beat any remaining blocks. Let's not forget, he was still recovering from an injury last season. He should be fully healthy this year. With the dline we should have this year, he should be able to feast, and our DBs should be able to mop up the rest.

I don't really get what you're saying.

QBs don't "roll out into the linebackers."

I don't know if you're talking about run or pass d.