Heisman committee: No disrespect for Harrell, just numbers

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3763162

Heisman committee: No disrespect for Harrell, just numbers
ESPN.com news services

Updated: December 11, 2008, 9:51 PM ET
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LUBBOCK, Texas -- Graham Harrell won't be at the Heisman Trophy ceremony in New York on Saturday. He's taken it relatively well. His coach, Mike Leach, hasn't.

The Heisman committee, for its part, says it's no different from how invitees were determined in the past.

Harrell said perennially strong programs hold the edge.

"Those things are going to get the benefit of the doubt when all things are equal," Harrell said from Orlando, Fla., where he was attending The Home Depot/ESPNU College Football Awards on Thursday night. "Sometimes you're going to get recognition, sometimes you're not."

So it goes for Harrell, who has thrown for 4,700-plus yards this season, but didn't get a ticket to the Heisman ceremony. Harrell had more passing yards than Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy of Texas and defending Heisman winner Tim Tebow of Florida. He also led his team to the same 11-1 record those three quarterbacks engineered.

Bradford, McCoy and Tebow are the only three players slated to be at the ceremony.

Leach said Wednesday that "if Graham is not invited to the Heisman, they ought to quit giving out the award. It is a shameless example of politics ruling over performance."

The Heisman committee has chosen as many as six finalists in the past. But there's no definitive method to determine how many are invited to New York.

"It's not a mathematical formula that determines the number of invitees. It's just wherever there is a natural breaking point in the voting," coordinator of Heisman Trophy Trust Tim Henning told ESPN's Joe Schad.

"We invite three to six candidates and the highest vote earners before the natural breaking point are invited. It's not an economic decision on our part at all," Henning said. "The nine members of the Heisman Trust approve the recommended number of invitees made by our accounting firm. We've not overridden that recommendation this year or in the past."

Harrell said perennially strong programs hold the edge.

"Programs' reputations have a lot to do with that," he said, according to The Dallas Morning News. "Texas Tech has never been a big-name program. Hopefully this year, winning as many big games as we have, Texas Tech can build on that."

Harrell this week picked up the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award and is one of three finalists for the Davey O'Brien Award. He passed for 4,747 yards and needs two more touchdown passes to break the national career record of 131 set by Hawaii's Colt Brennan last year.

Information from The Associated Press is included in this report

 

[Danny White]

Like I said in the other thread, this makes perfect sense. This is a three-way race where all three guys are neck-and-neck.

Harrell is a DISTANT 4th and may not even finish that high.

Right now, http://www.stiffarmtrophy.com/ projections (based on actual, announced votes) have:

Bradford getting 1687 points
McCoy getting 1516 points
Tebow getting 1446 points

and Harrell getting 66 points

Next closest is Shonn Green with 56 projected points, so you can see how far the field is behind the top three.

I really like Leach and admire him for sticking up for his guy, but the Heisman committee is doing the right thing here.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Like I said in the other thread, this makes perfect sense. This is a three-way race where all three guys are neck-and-neck.

Harrell is a DISTANT 4th and may not even finish that high.

Right now, http://www.stiffarmtrophy.com/ projections have:

Bradford getting 1687 points
McCoy getting 1516 points
Tebow getting 1446 points

and Harrell getting 66 points

Next closest is Shonn Green with 56 projected points, so you can see how far the field is behind the top three.

I really like Leach and admire him for sticking up for his guy, but the Heisman committee is doing the right thing here.

I guess I don't see much difference between this and the whole Big 12 championship scenario. If your going to say that Bradford should be there based on numbers and results, then there is no reason Harrell should not be considered but hey, that's just me.

 

[Danny White]

I guess I don't see much difference between this and the whole Big 12 championship scenario. If your going to say that Bradford should be there based on numbers and results, then there is no reason Harrell should not be considered but hey, that's just me.

First of all, he is being considered, everyone is considered... it's just that no one is voting for him.

The ceremony is for Heisman Trophy contenders and, apparently, according to the voters, Harrell isn't a contender.

If no one is voting for him then why should he be at the ceremony?

Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy were invited to the ceremony because people are voting for them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

First of all, he is being considered, everyone is considered... it's just that no one is voting for him.

The ceremony is for Heisman Trophy contenders and, apparently, according to the voters, Harrell isn't a contender.

If no one is voting for him then why should he be at the ceremony?

Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy were invited to the ceremony because people are voting for them.

The voting process is the problem. The Heismam people and the people who vote are not disconnected. They are the same body of work.

It's a shame, IMO, to say that because he's not getting the votes, he doesn't get to be included. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting the votes IMO. What does that say about the voters and if you take that a step further, what does that say about the whole arguement on why it was the right thing to do in the Big 12? It's not head to head, it's a three team thing right? You can't just not include Tech even if the voters are not voting them high enough in the poles for them to have a chance at a NC Game, or so the arguements went.

It's BS. Harrell out performed all QBs in the Heisman race. He posted just as good a record. He should be included and the fact that he's not just exposes this whole thing for what it is.

 

[joseephuss]

The voting process is the problem. The Heismam people and the people who vote are not disconnected. They are the same body of work.

It's a shame, IMO, to say that because he's not getting the votes, he doesn't get to be included. There is no reason he shouldn't be getting the votes IMO. What does that say about the voters and if you take that a step further, what does that say about the whole arguement on why it was the right thing to do in the Big 12? It's not head to head, it's a three team thing right? You can't just not include Tech even if the voters are not voting them high enough in the poles for them to have a chance at a NC Game, or so the arguements went.

It's BS. Harrell out performed all QBs in the Heisman race. He posted just as good a record. He should be included and the fact that he's not just exposes this whole thing for what it is.

They system is broke. I don't doubt that at all.

If I had a vote I would not put Harrell at the top. He would be 4th on my list.

I can't judge Harrell soley on his numbers because they are boosted because of the system he plays in and the fact that Leach will keep throwing the ball late in games. Bradford too plays in a pass happy system, but even it is not as pass oriented as Leach's system. He attempted 126 more passes than Bradford(in one less game) and 193 more passes than McCoy.

Without looking at the final totals I look at how well he played. I think he did great. I just think the other guys did better.

In the game Texas lost, McCoy struggled for a while, but got it together and almost led Texas to a win.

In the game OU lost, Bradford threw for 5 TDs. He was not the reason the team lost.

In the game Tech lost, Harrell was not that great. His defense sucked, but he also had one of his worse performances.

I don't think McCoy and Bradford are light years better than Harrell, but I do think they played better.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They system is broke. I don't doubt that at all.

If I had a vote I would not put Harrell at the top. He would be 4th on my list.

I can't judge Harrell soley on his numbers because they are boosted because of the system he plays in and the fact that Leach will keep throwing the ball late in games. Bradford too plays in a pass happy system, but even it is not as pass oriented as Leach's system. He attempted 126 more passes than Bradford(in one less game) and 193 more passes than McCoy.

Without looking at the final totals I look at how well he played. I think he did great. I just think the other guys did better.

In the game Texas lost, McCoy struggled for a while, but got it together and almost led Texas to a win.

In the game OU lost, Bradford threw for 5 TDs. He was not the reason the team lost.

In the game Tech lost, Harrell was not that great. His defense sucked, but he also had one of his worse performances.

I don't think McCoy and Bradford are light years better than Harrell, but I do think they played better.

If your talking about who I believe deserves it, I think it's McCoy. He does more for his team then anybody else. If your saying that Bradford should get it, then the discussion has to be on the basis of statistics because head to head, he lost to McCoy and that's usually the deciding factor on a Heisman candidate. The only reason it's not this year is because of what has happened to Texas in the Big 12 Championship thing. So, if your going to say that it's because of the stats, then you have to say that Harrell belongs. The fact that he is not getting votes is clearly a voters bias more then anything. Heck, Harrell played in the same conference, against the same compatition and the results produced are clearly superior on behalf of Harrell. I agree that he plays in a more pass happy offense but on the other hand, Bradford also plays with a lot more talent then does Harrell. The fact that voters are not voting for him suggests that all things are not being considered evenly IMO.

 

[joseephuss]

If your talking about who I believe deserves it, I think it's McCoy. He does more for his team then anybody else. If your saying that Bradford should get it, then the discussion has to be on the basis of statistics because head to head, he lost to McCoy and that's usually the deciding factor on a Heisman candidate. The only reason it's not this year is because of what has happened to Texas in the Big 12 Championship thing. So, if your going to say that it's because of the stats, then you have to say that Harrell belongs. The fact that he is not getting votes is clearly a voters bias more then anything. Heck, Harrell played in the same conference, against the same compatition and the results produced are clearly superior on behalf of Harrell. I agree that he plays in a more pass happy offense but on the other hand, Bradford also plays with a lot more talent then does Harrell. The fact that voters are not voting for him suggests that all things are not being considered evenly IMO.

I don't think Bradford plays with more talent except at running back. The offensive line for Tech is pretty good this season. OU does not have anyone as good as Michael Crabtree. I also think #17, I can't remember his name is pretty good at receiver for Tech.

Like I said, I think it is close for all three. If Harrell comes in 3rd in a majority of votes then a gap starts to develop. I think he is getting consideration, but not enough 1st or 2nd place votes.

 

[Danny White]

I don't think Bradford plays with more talent except at running back. The offensive line for Tech is pretty good this season. OU does not have anyone as good as Michael Crabtree. I also think #17, I can't remember his name is pretty good at receiver for Tech.

Like I said, I think it is close for all three. If Harrell comes in 3rd in a majority of votes then a gap starts to develop. I think he is getting consideration, but not enough 1st or 2nd place votes.

Unfortunately I don't think he's getting many votes at all.

According to survey from that site I mentioned, he's only gotten 13 total votes (first, second or third) from almost 200 ballots they've identified. And of those 13 votes, only one of them was for first and two were for second.

I think a lot of it has to do with media hype, but he's just not getting any love.

 

[Doomsday101]

I know this has nothing to do with the Heisman but out of all of these QB's who do you guys see as the most likely to succeed as a QB in the NFL? Myself I give the edge to Bradford with McCoy right behind him. I think Tebow is a very good college player but not sure his style will carry him through the NFL.

 

[Rampage]

Colt should win cause he's done more with less.

 

[Danny White]

I know this has nothing to do with the Heisman but out of all of these QB's who do you guys see as the most likely to succeed as a QB in the NFL? Myself I give the edge to Bradford with McCoy right behind him. I think Tebow is a very good college player but not sure his style will carry him through the NFL.

I don't think Tebow is going to be a QB in the pros... then again, I'm no NFL talent evaluator.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't think Bradford plays with more talent except at running back. The offensive line for Tech is pretty good this season. OU does not have anyone as good as Michael Crabtree. I also think #17, I can't remember his name is pretty good at receiver for Tech.

Like I said, I think it is close for all three. If Harrell comes in 3rd in a majority of votes then a gap starts to develop. I think he is getting consideration, but not enough 1st or 2nd place votes.

I do. I think that Tech's OL is good, especially at home, but I don't think there as good or anywhere near as deep as OU's is. I think OU's WRs are much deeper and much better, with the exception of Crabtree (but that is a pretty big difference) and I think OU is much better at TE then is Tech. Defensively, I don't think there is any question. OU is better then Tech IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I know this has nothing to do with the Heisman but out of all of these QB's who do you guys see as the most likely to succeed as a QB in the NFL? Myself I give the edge to Bradford with McCoy right behind him. I think Tebow is a very good college player but not sure his style will carry him through the NFL.

Hard to say how good Bradford might be. He's pretty small and he really has not taken a lot of hits. In the NFL, he's not going to have the kind of time he has at OU so really, it's hard to say how good he can be. He's very accurate but he doesn't have much escapablility IMO. Really hard to say IMO.

 

[Dallas]

Hard to say how good Bradford might be. He's pretty small and he really has not taken a lot of hits. In the NFL, he's not going to have the kind of time he has at OU so really, it's hard to say how good he can be. He's very accurate but he doesn't have much escapablility IMO. Really hard to say IMO.

6 Ft 4 inches and 215 lbs as a Sophmore.

Oh yeah - he is WAY small.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

Bradford did a similar thing to McCoy, adding muscle to his frame between seasons.

Although he looked a bit fragile his frosh year, he's seemed to of made good strides to improve this, and I'll assume he'll only improve that between "now-n-then".

Conversely, I'd be interested to see how he does though a full-season, having to endure a few more hits especially in a scrambling situation, before I'm sold.

Honestly, I have the same feelings regarding McCoy.

Until this season, I held my breath every time he tucked and ran, and still wonder if he can string together two seasons without an injury that effects the outcome of a game.

 

[Danny White]

I'm pretty sure Bradford is gonna win it.

 

[CATCH17]

If Bradford wins over McCoy than its a crime.

 

[Route 66]

If Bradford wins over McCoy than its a crime.

I heard the votes are going for Bradford 45-35.

 

[ajk23az]

I'm pretty sure Bradford is gonna win it.

He damn near broke the single season TD record. He's going to win it and as he should.