Hindsight question

big dog cowboy said:
Martyball in Dallas wouldn't have worked. I live near KC and I was thrilled when the Chiefs hired him. I knew that meant the Chiefs wouldn't ever win a super bowl with him. I was hoping he would stay their HC for 50 years or more. He wouldn't have been the missing piece in Dallas.
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I lived in KC for a year lol. Right by the airport.
 
At the time, Jerry was obsessed with Garrett…his perfect puppet of a head coach that he would create on his own. He was hired before Wade.

Phillips was actually the right choice at the time. His defense was perfect for the personnel that Parcells brought in…..they just needed to get it done before it blew up. BP knew what he was saying on the way out…”within two years, you won’t even know I was here…”

Look what happened. Jerry put his plan into place and wasted over a decade of all of our lives with the robotic puppet.

I can’t recall who the other candidates were. Maybe Mike Singletary? Wade was the right pick. Someone Jerry could easily push around after Parcells ruled the joint for five years. But….Jerry got his stayjum, his roster turned into one that could grab a one seed, oh and they found him a QB also. Jerry conveniently steps in and was like “Thanks I’ll take it from here,” then proceeded to destroy yet another roster built by a HOF coach.

Then we get to the postseason and dudes aren’t really thinking about football, and you’ve got Wade saying things like earning a bye is the same as winning a playoff game. They played sloppy enough to blow it.

Wade DID have that defense playing well later in the 2008 season, and even better in 2009….until they decided to pull the signature of the franchise and not show up for the divisional round game. He was the right choice, but it was never gonna work longer term, nor was it supposed to be that. Garrett was Jerry’s man, as we so very well know.
 
Marty Shottenheimer is very overrated around the league. Guy was a slightly above average coach with a historically bad track record in the playoffs. Coached 21 years and had 5 playoff wins. Mind blowing offensive decisions too. Hard pass.
 
fivetwos said:
At the time, Jerry was obsessed with Garrett…his perfect puppet of a head coach that he would create on his own. He was hired before Wade.

Phillips was actually the right choice at the time. His defense was perfect for the personnel that Parcells brought in…..they just needed to get it done before it blew up. BP knew what he was saying on the way out…”within two years, you won’t even know I was here…”

Look what happened. Jerry put his plan into place and wasted over a decade of all of our lives with the robotic puppet.

I can’t recall who the other candidates were. Maybe Mike Singletary? Wade was the right pick. Someone Jerry could easily push around after Parcells ruled the joint for five years. But….Jerry got his stayjum, his roster turned into one that could grab a one seed, oh and they found him a QB also. Jerry conveniently steps in and was like “Thanks I’ll take it from here,” then proceeded to destroy yet another roster built by a HOF coach.

Then we get to the postseason and dudes aren’t really thinking about football, and you’ve got Wade saying things like earning a bye is the same as winning a playoff game. They played sloppy enough to blow it.

Wade DID have that defense playing well later in the 2008 season, and even better in 2009….until they decided to pull the signature of the franchise and not show up for the divisional round game. He was the right choice, but it was never gonna work longer term, nor was it supposed to be that. Garrett was Jerry’s man, as we so very well know.
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I agree, and like I said, I'm not trying to besmirch Wade in any way. He did a good job for us. I just think that maybe Marty might have been a better move since he could have been helpful to Garrett, if that makes sense. But yeah, Wade might have been the right choice. Just felt it was an interesting question, you know?
 
RustyBourneHorse said:
I agree, and like I said, I'm not trying to besmirch Wade in any way. He did a good job for us. I just think that maybe Marty might have been a better move since he could have been helpful to Garrett, if that makes sense. But yeah, Wade might have been the right choice. Just felt it was an interesting question, you know?
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I don’t recall Marty ever being mentioned as a candidate. Was he even still coaching at that point?

I’m not defending Wade, but wherever he went (essentially everywhere), his defenses were good. When he worked for the old man, those Oilers defenses were badass.

The problem with Wade as HC was that it was basically like when Switzer was here…..the team was presumed to be talented enough that it essentially can run without strong leadership, but ends up running amuck within two years.

See Jerry’s deal? Hire a HOF coach to build you a championship caliber roster, then replace them with a puppet of a HC and “have fun again.” He truly believes that coaching doesn’t matter…just make your roster talented enough. Small problem in the cap era, but Jerry wants his utopia and figures he is entitled to that, and/or anything else he wants.
 
The real answer is that Garrett was the guy Jerry wanted to hire as HC -- he'd been obsessed with Garrett since Jason carried Troy's clipboard and was the son of one of his favorite scouts -- but he couldn't quite bring himself to do it. So he hired Wade because Wade 1) was a great DC, 2) had a pretty good HC record at Buffalo, and 3) would agree to let Garrett pretty much have free rein over the offense.

IOW, Garrett was always the heir apparent, so much so that he almost got the HC job in 2007. A Marty Schottenheimer would have overseen the entire team and kept Garrett in line, but Jerry didn't want that -- he wanted his pet project to run his own ship. Same reason Jerry balked at Dan Reeves when Wade tried to bring him in to help Jason with the offense... which I have no doubt Garrett complained to Jerry about behind the scenes.
 
RustyBourneHorse said:
I know, this is digging a bit far into the past, but something in a previous thread someone else made got me thinking. And yes, we are in that point of the offseason haha. So, I have a hindsight question. Why didn't we hire Marty Schottenheimer in 2007?

I must preface this with two things. 1. I liked Wade as our coach and this is by NO means intended to be a slight against him. 2. I was in 8th grade for the 2007 season, so I genuinely don't know if he was even an option.

However, that being said, I must ask why we didn't hire Marty? Ironically, Wade was his DC. Obviously, nobody could have known we'd hire Marty's son about 20 years later. However, I still think it's an interesting question. Firstly, I think it's understood that Wade was there until Garrett was ready. But, we also had a young Romo at that time. I do not think that Marty would have been any more of a problem for Jerry than Wade was. Plus, I think, in hindsight, the WCO style that Marty ran would have been excellent for Romo. Plus, I think that would have made the transition to Garrett a lot easier. I think Marty would probably have been the coach for about as long as Wade was anyway, and I think he'd have been a good mentor for Garrett (who had previously in 2006 been on the Saban Dolphins staff).

So, to me, given that Romo was younger with Felix Jones, T.O., Crayton, Terry Glenn (RIP), and a young Witten (and Dware and others), it seems that Marty might have actually been a better choice. Plus, T.O. typically did well in WCO systems (he was electric in 07 with us, but I think Marty's system would have been more sustainable). I think Marty probably only would have stayed about 3 years anyway, but, he probably would have set us up for a better future.

Let's also not forget, prior to being sacked, he had made it to the division round before losing to a good Pats team in 06. So, it's not like he was coming off a bad season. And, ironically, we also probably would have, unwittingly, been training another future coach in our own building at the time.

Probably just offseason ramblings, but it genuinely makes me curious if we interviewed Marty. If not, why? I genuinely think a Marty Romo combination could well have been a SB combo, and might have even gotten Garrett into a better situation to become the next HC (since it was potentially inevitable when he got hired as I remember a magazine I had at the time tapped him as a future HC in the offseason leading into 07). So, the transition probably would have been cleaner imo. Plus, Parcells to Marty would have been interesting. Especially since we had quite the battle with Marty (we won) in 05.

So yeah, it's got me wondering if that might have been a better move. It's water 20 years under the bridge at this point (and it's probably in the ocean by now). But I am curious now.
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Wow all I got from that is you were in 8th grade in 2007..lol Dude I was in my mid 20s during these 90s Super Bowl runs..

Just skimming through your post this where they went wrong was Bill Parcells was **** **** And yes they blocked all what I called him and I meant it He purposely sabotaged Jerry Jones when he left because he did not tell and I know he knew in the back of his mind he was going to retire sooner and didn't tell anyone but he should have told Sean Payton this way round because he would have been next in line as the Dallas Cowboy head coach I think that missed opportunity changed a lot of the path of the Dallas Cowboys..

Can only imagine with a young Romo and that teen way it was being built to have Sean Payton coaching it And yes he was even young at the time it would have been similar to Jimmie Johnson in some ways i'm not saying that Super Bowls but just striking it at the right time with the right coach if Bill Parcells would have just told Sean to be patient and behind the scenes I am thinking of retiring next year or whatever stay here don't take the same job the job is yours when I leave because you know Jerry don't love Sean Payton and there was a mistake made..

Not blaming Jerry, Bill Parcells did it on purpose.. For whatever reason behind the scenes he didn't get what he wanted I believe he went to dairy and this is all just me remembering the what was going on at the time and it's hypothetical but it's my belief that he wanted to be the GM here he didn't wanna coach anymore he wanted to be a GM somewhere in the NFL and he thought that Gary should give him the GM job he would have elevated Sean Payton and that was his fan and when Jerry said no he sabotaged the team..
 
fivetwos said:
I don’t recall Marty ever being mentioned as a candidate. Was he even still coaching at that point?

I’m not defending Wade, but wherever he went (essentially everywhere), his defenses were good. When he worked for the old man, those Oilers defenses were badass.

The problem with Wade as HC was that it was basically like when Switzer was here…..the team was presumed to be talented enough that it essentially can run without strong leadership, but ends up running amuck within two years.

See Jerry’s deal? Hire a HOF coach to build you a championship caliber roster, then replace them with a puppet of a HC and “have fun again.” He truly believes that coaching doesn’t matter…just make your roster talented enough. Small problem in the cap era, but Jerry wants his utopia and figures he is entitled to that, and/or anything else he wants.
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I don't know honestly. I genuinely don't even know if he was an option. Maybe he was retired anyway. But if he was an option, I'm curious why he wasn't considered. You know?
 
blueblood70 said:
Wow all I got from that is you were in 8th grade in 2007..lol Dude I was in my mid 20s during these 90s Super Bowl runs..

Just skimming through your post this where they went wrong was Bill Parcells was **** **** And yes they blocked all what I called him and I meant it He purposely sabotaged Jerry Jones when he left because he did not tell and I know he knew in the back of his mind he was going to retire sooner and didn't tell anyone but he should have told Sean Payton this way round because he would have been next in line as the Dallas Cowboy head coach I think that missed opportunity changed a lot of the path of the Dallas Cowboys..

Can only imagine with a young Romo and that teen way it was being built to have Sean Payton coaching it And yes he was even young at the time it would have been similar to Jimmie Johnson in some ways i'm not saying that Super Bowls but just striking it at the right time with the right coach if Bill Parcells would have just told Sean to be patient and behind the scenes I am thinking of retiring next year or whatever stay here don't take the same job the job is yours when I leave because you know Jerry don't love Sean Payton and there was a mistake made..

Not blaming Jerry, Bill Parcells did it on purpose.. For whatever reason behind the scenes he didn't get what he wanted I believe he went to dairy and this is all just me remembering the what was going on at the time and it's hypothetical but it's my belief that he wanted to be the GM here he didn't wanna coach anymore he wanted to be a GM somewhere in the NFL and he thought that Gary should give him the GM job he would have elevated Sean Payton and that was his fan and when Jerry said no he sabotaged the team..
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I can second this. And there's certainly a lot of moving parts at that time, and I don't think Parcells left favourably. Then again, he was a Giants legend before he got here. Maybe that sullied the waters for Marty (if he was potentially going to be an option).
 
Chocolate Lab said:
The real answer is that Garrett was the guy Jerry wanted to hire as HC -- he'd been obsessed with Garrett since Jason carried Troy's clipboard and was the son of one of his favorite scouts -- but he couldn't quite bring himself to do it. So he hired Wade because Wade 1) was a great DC, 2) had a pretty good HC record at Buffalo, and 3) would agree to let Garrett pretty much have free rein over the offense.

IOW, Garrett was always the heir apparent, so much so that he almost got the HC job in 2007. A Marty Schottenheimer would have overseen the entire team and kept Garrett in line, but Jerry didn't want that -- he wanted his pet project to run his own ship. Same reason Jerry balked at Dan Reeves when Wade tried to bring him in to help Jason with the offense... which I have no doubt Garrett complained to Jerry about behind the scenes.
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That's probably true, but maybe that keeping in line would have been what Garrett needed. Rather than running the offense and learning how to playcall, he might have done better with Marty as the HC and learning from him. Besides, ironically (before he likely would have gone to the Jets if everything else stayed on pattern), we probably would have also had Brian in training too lol. That would have been fascinating.
 
RustyBourneHorse said:
I don't know honestly. I genuinely don't even know if he was an option. Maybe he was retired anyway. But if he was an option, I'm curious why he wasn't considered. You know?
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I suppose. I just remember being alright with that hire, mostly because we had 34 personnel on a good defense. I remember not wanting to try the square peg thing. This is when Jerry figured he could put the staff in place himself, based on who he liked, who was signed already, etc. To date, he has zero respect for coaching.

Either way, it was already clear the position was about being a placeholder. Not many head coaches would have accepted an OC that they didn’t know at all forced on them. Marty probably fell into that category. He didn’t win in the playoffs, but he was no pushover of a man. I think your answer might lie right there. Not what Jerry wanted after Parcells. He freely admitted that he “wanted to have fun again.” Marty wasn’t going to go for Jerry holding court outside the locker room immediately after games, among a long list of other things.

Remembering things like this remind me of exactly how badly Jerry Jones ruined this once proud and very upstanding franchise with his philandering ways and his obsessive need to be liked.

If he is truly doing much less behind the scenes these days, first of all…great! Less of him just might make itself obvious on the field.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
The real answer is that Garrett was the guy Jerry wanted to hire as HC -- he'd been obsessed with Garrett since Jason carried Troy's clipboard and was the son of one of his favorite scouts -- but he couldn't quite bring himself to do it. So he hired Wade because Wade 1) was a great DC, 2) had a pretty good HC record at Buffalo, and 3) would agree to let Garrett pretty much have free rein over the offense.

IOW, Garrett was always the heir apparent, so much so that he almost got the HC job in 2007. A Marty Schottenheimer would have overseen the entire team and kept Garrett in line, but Jerry didn't want that -- he wanted his pet project to run his own ship. Same reason Jerry balked at Dan Reeves when Wade tried to bring him in to help Jason with the offense... which I have no doubt Garrett complained to Jerry about behind the scenes.
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Yep yep.
 
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