How Can Anyone Support the Owners?

Outlaw Heroes

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I keep seeing a number of posters posing the same question: "How can anyone support the owners?"

I have a simple response: "Because the owners' interests here are largely aligned with those of the fans."

Don't believe me? As a thought experiment, try to answer the following question: "if I really wanted to ruin fan interest in the game of professional football, what changes would I make?"

I'll tell you the first change I would make. I'd get rid of the salary cap. Presto. Just like that I'd infect the game with a number of the problems that are currently plaguing MLB. Within a few years there would be a two-tiered league. The first tier would consist of maybe five or six teams which, because of their far greater resources and ability to spend on the best talent, would be the only teams that would ever really have a chance at winning it all. Oh sure, every once in a while the stars might align just right for a small-market franchise (the NFL equivalent of the Oakland As of the early 2000s or today's Tampa Devil Rays) allowing it to crash the big boys' party for a few years. But for the most part the same 5 or 6 teams would be winning Superbowls by outspending everyone else.

Some of you might even think that all of this sounds pretty cool. After all, the Cowboys are the NFL equivalent of the Yankees. It's reasonable to suppose that no team generates more revenues and therefore that no team would be able to spend on talent like the Cowboys. Maybe it's just me, but that's not the way I want to see my team win. I'd rather know that the Cowboys are beating teams on a level playing field. I'd rather beat them with scouting and drafting, coaching and preparation and not by spending more money than them.

In any event, I'm pretty sure that fans of the 26 or 27 teams in the "have-not" markets wouldn't think that this was an improvement to the game, even if the odd Cowboy or Giants fan might.

But I digress. Do you want to know what else I'd do if I really wanted to ruin the game? I'd get rid of the draft. That would ensure that no small market team could make up for its competitive disadvantage in terms of resources through scouting and shrewd drafting. Nope. From the moment they left college, players would be free to go to the highest bidder.

In fact, I suppose if I really wanted to ruin the game I'd get rid of any concept of team ownership of player rights: not just draft rights, or things like the franchise player tag, but even any rights arising under player contracts. If the Commanders wanted to scoop a player from another team mid-season by offering to pay him more, I'd let them do it.

Now, for certain, I'd have ruined the competitive balance of the league and effectively killed the interest of fans in 26 or 27 markets. They wouldn't ever be able to rely on any of their good players sticking around for even a full season, so why form any attachments?

But you know what else I'd have done? I'd have created a perfectly free market for players' services. Make no mistake: the players would love my new league in concept (at least in the short term), since it would obviously maximize their freedom to choose where to work and under what circumstances, not to mention its effect on their pocket-books.

The upshot of all of this should be clear. Those of you arguing for player mobility and the right make whatever amount their services would command in a "free market" have overlooked the impact that this would have, taken to the extreme, on the competitive balance of the league. The NFL cannot be compared to most labor markets, where worker mobility and the lack of artificial constraints on wages are fundamental rights. At root, the NFL is an affiliated group of 32 businesses, each of which is in the business of selling a competitive spectacle. Keeping it competitive requires certain constraints on the rights of the players to move around and the rights of the owners to pay the players anything they want. Consequently, the players' don't operate in a "free market".

We, as fans, benefit from that because it allows the NFL to stage a more competitive spectacle than other leagues, like MLB. In that sense, our interests in these labor disputes are largely aligned with those of the owners, who maintain the competitive integrity of the league even as they benefit themselves financially by placing constraints on the players' rights as employees.

But don't worry. Ultimately, the players benefit just like the owners and the fans do. Indeed, the short-term constraints on their freedom and earning potential keeps interest in the game high, ensuring that butts are in seats and that the networks will pay those ridiculous amounts for TV contracts so that player salaries can can continue to rise at a mind-boggling rate over the long term.
 
I don't think the players have called for an elimination to the salary cap, nor complete freedom to choose where they play.

They have simply asked "why are we being asked to give you back 1 billion dollars"

Without that answer, there can't be a fair negotiation.

Remember, the owners are the ones who backed out of the current CBA, attempted to utilize "lockout insurance," via negotiating in bad faith with the TV networks and use your tax dollars to build stadiums which only THEY realize profits.
 
Like blindzebra said ...... I hope the owners go after a percentage of the players endorsement deals.
 
SkinsHokieFan;3873710 said:
I don't think the players have called for an elimination to the salary cap, nor complete freedom to choose where they play.

They have simply asked "why are we being asked to give you back 1 billion dollars"

Without that answer, there can't be a fair negotiation.

Remember, the owners are the ones who backed out of the current CBA, attempted to utilize "lockout insurance," via negotiating in bad faith with the TV networks and use your tax dollars to build stadiums which only THEY realize profits.



its not just the owners who get a profit from the stadiums, look around at the things that move, their called humans.
 
Wouldn't the players insane endorsement deals be a pretty big sign that people want to watch stars?

And contrary to popular CZ belief people wouldnt pay too watch scrubs?
 
I support the owners. It's their frickin money. The players are well paid. They don't like it...go find another source of income for your talents
 
No matter what side you fall on, the OP is just a great post.
 
SkinsHokieFan;3873710 said:
I don't think the players have called for an elimination to the salary cap, nor complete freedom to choose where they play.

They have simply asked "why are we being asked to give you back 1 billion dollars"

Without that answer, there can't be a fair negotiation.

Remember, the owners are the ones who backed out of the current CBA, attempted to utilize "lockout insurance," via negotiating in bad faith with the TV networks and use your tax dollars to build stadiums which only THEY realize profits.
They decertified and are suing, so they are indeed looking to change the system.
 
speedkilz88;3873720 said:
They decertified and are suing, so they are indeed looking to change the system.

It is by far the biggest leverage they have.

The current CBA was working plenty well for the NFL. Highest ratings ever, highest watched Superbowl, competitive balance, you name it, the thing worked well. This wasn't the NHL 2004, NBA 2011 or MLB 1994

The owners left the deal early-that is a fact

The owners took the American needle case all the way to the Supreme Court for the purpose of becoming a single entity- that is a fact

The owners negotiated in bad faith on the last TV deal so they were able to acquire 4 billion dollars in "lockout insurance"- that is a fact

Every single stadium built since 1990, with the exception of FedEx Field, has had tax payer funds subsidize them. Every single stadium that has been built, with the exception of Fed Ex Field, has charged a "personal seat licence" for fans to have the right to purchase seats- that is a fact

In all honesty, if the owners were taken out of the NFL, and all teams were run like the Green Bay Packers, i.e fans as shareholders who then elected a board, would the NFL suffer at all?

The owners to me just appear to be nothing more then unnecessary overhead which inflate the cost of watching football
 
SkinsHokieFan;3873723 said:
It is by far the biggest leverage they have.

The current CBA was working plenty well for the NFL. Highest ratings ever, highest watched Superbowl, competitive balance, you name it, the thing worked well. This wasn't the NHL 2004, NBA 2011 or MLB 1994

The owners left the deal early-that is a fact

The owners took the American needle case all the way to the Supreme Court for the purpose of becoming a single entity- that is a fact

The owners negotiated in bad faith on the last TV deal so they were able to acquire 4 billion dollars in "lockout insurance"- that is a fact

Every single stadium built since 1990, with the exception of FedEx Field, has had tax payer funds subsidize them. Every single stadium that has been built, with the exception of Fed Ex Field, has charged a "personal seat licence" for fans to have the right to purchase seats- that is a fact

In all honesty, if the owners were taken out of the NFL, and all teams were run like the Green Bay Packers, i.e fans as shareholders who then elected a board, would the NFL suffer at all?

The owners to me just appear to be nothing more then unnecessary overhead which inflate the cost of watching football
And still it is the players who are going to the courts to try and change the system.
 
speedkilz88;3873726 said:
And still it is the players who are going to the courts to try and change the system.

That is false.

The players are going to court to get an injunction to prevent a lockout, and operate under the previous rules.

If the players win in court, and get an injunction, we get an offseason with free agency and an NFL season.

Fans win
 
I just want football. I think both sides are greedy somewhat. I think the owners and players should all just be happy they make so much money in the first place.
 
SkinsHokieFan;3873727 said:
That is false.

The players are going to court to get an injunction to prevent a lockout, and operate under the previous rules.

If the players win in court, and get an injunction, we get an offseason with free agency and an NFL season.

Fans win


they shouldn't be going to court in the first place. I know that the owners should have acted a lot quicker in negotiations, but at the same time at least they wanted to keep talking, and the union wanted no part in that.
 
SkinsHokieFan;3873727 said:
That is false.

The players are going to court to get an injunction to prevent a lockout, and operate under the previous rules.

If the players win in court, and get an injunction, we get an offseason with free agency and an NFL season.

Um, no. The lockout injunction is only a short-term solution. The players' lawsuit claims that the entire NFL system violates antitrust laws ... the salary cap, the rookie pool, the draft, franchise tags, everything.
 
cboyd;3873735 said:
they shouldn't be going to court in the first place. I know that the owners should have acted a lot quicker in negotiations, but at the same time at least they wanted to keep talking, and the union wanted no part in that.

After 17 days, what is anymore "talking" going to do?

These jerks have been in downtown DC with 100s of media staking them out getting in my way on my walk to work for 2 weeks now.

Yet we are in the same spot as we were at the combine.

The litigation will actually get something going, much quicker. Hopefully we get an injunction and the lockout is blocked by judge Doty. That way we can have an NFL operating under the old rules while negotiations continue.
 
AdamJT13;3873739 said:
Um, no. The lockout injunction is only a short-term solution. The players' lawsuit claims that the entire NFL system violates antitrust laws ... the salary cap, the rookie pool, the draft, franchise tags, everything.

Interesting.

This is what I have seen thus far

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/11/AR2011031107057.html

Decertifying the NFL Players Association enabled the players to file antitrust litigation against the owners, which they did late Friday, with superstar quarterbacks Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees among the 10 named plaintiffs. Lawyers for the players also announced that they are seeking an injunction to prevent the lockout. The case is expected to end up before from Minneapolis-based U.S. District Judge David S. Doty, who has overseen the NFL's labor pact since 1993.

Now with your post (and knowing you are plugged in) I am very curious to see where this goes.

The American Needle Case does help the owners in regards to the draft, free agency, etc

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...lver-lining-could-help-nfl-in-antitrust-case/

At the tail end of the written ruling in American Needle resides language that would give the league a reasonable shot at winning an antitrust lawsuit on the merits. “The fact that NFL teams share an interest in making the entire league successful and profitable, and that they must cooperate in the production and scheduling of games, provides a perfectly sensible justification for making a host of collective decisions,” the Supreme Court wrote. “Other features of the NFL may also save agreements amongst the teams. We have recognized, for example,’that the interest in maintaining a competitive balance’ among ‘athletic teams is legitimate and important’ . . . . While that same interest applies to the teams in the NFL, it does not justify treating them as a single entity . . . when it comes to the marketing of the teams’ individually owned intellectual property. It is, however, unquestionably an interest that may well justify a variety of collective decisions made by the teams.”

And that comes from the SCOTUS
 
jumanji;3873717 said:
I support the owners. It's their frickin money. The players are well paid. They don't like it...go find another source of income for your talents

Can we also tell the owners if they don't like it, go own something else other than an NFL team?
 
tyke1doe;3873824 said:
Can we also tell the owners if they don't like it, go own something else other than an NFL team?
No, not unless the communist take over and take it away from them.
 
speedkilz88;3873827 said:
No, not unless the communist take over and take it away from them.

But you don't have a business without employees. So if the players don't want to play, then the owners will have to either hire a much inferior quality of workers or enter another business.
 
tyke1doe;3873829 said:
But you don't have a business without employees. So if the players don't want to play, then the owners will have to either hire a much inferior quality of workers or enter another business.
The owners can find more employees. There are hundreds of new ones available every year.
 

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