How did the Washington defense confuse the Dallas offense?

[Stsinaz12]

I'm a Skins fan, but I'd love to get some insight from "the other side". There is a famous book on military strategy by Hart, The Other Side of the Hill, where he interviewed German generals and got their perspective on which Allied generals were good/not (Patton better than Monty), which servicemen were braver (English better than Americans), etc.

Now of course fans are interested in how their players did (not the opposition). So the norm on fan sites is to read about "how our guys messed up" in a loss. This is the same for y'all, for Commanders, for the Browns, etc. And nothing wrong with that. Of course that is your focus.

But still, I'm curious what your impressions of the Skins defense were, from "the other side of the hill". It's perplexing to me how they were able to stymie Dallas, which has an explosive offense, when the Skins were down several starters (DT Allen, S Kurl, C BSJ (and Jackson before that), LB Davis and Bostic (and Holcomb before that).

We are very excited by Howell (and maybe there should be an analysis on why/how you didn't abuse him). But it seems like the victory was much more about the defense than the offense. A pick six, two turnovers on downs (one in punt defense), a fumble recovery in punt defense, and only 6 points conceded. Also, they seemed to stop both the run and the pass (from yardage totals).

Was there something schematic that Washington did to confuse Dak/Moore? Or some standard defense that matches well against them (might be repeated by other opponents)?

Just from snap counts, it looked like our normal "no base", with 4-2-5 (nickel) 80% of snaps, with a small amount of 5-1-5 (we call it "cinco", but it's really just a 3-4 front in nickel--one-two of the DEs standing up like an OLB in 3-4, and one MLB missing) and 4-1-6 (dime). So, our normal packages that we've run all year at least (not some strange Belichick thing). [I guess the one thing I heard was that for SS they switched a lot...tried to sub in Reeves, a coverage liability, on run downs and Butler on pass downs.]

Of course, I don't know how the DBs were deployed or how the line played their gaps. Hard to evaluate for a non-expert, watching live broadcast.

Obviously some aspects are luck (the punter sack), but others like the pick six seem more non-flukey. Fuller was in position for that two plays in a row. He also had a very similar pick six against the (other) Texans a few weeks ago.

Anyhow, just appreciate your thoughts. Was it all luck (or Dallas poor play) or was there something schematic (or even personnel strengths) of Washington that affected the outcome?

P.s. Off topic, but we really enjoy the Vanilla Gorilla. Just something funny about his attitude or how he looks. And he does some to shed well, to make tackles before they even get to the next level, in run defense.

MM directed Moore to be bland. He told the starters play a half and a series and I will get you out BUT this is the NFL and the teams are so close now that if you take your foot off the gas even a little you can half this type of performance. This had a preseason type feel. Remember Brad Sham said they would be trying things and remember coming out of half they said they wanted to pull players. It didnt workout like that. MM wanted tbay and he got them now prepare for it. You better have some changeups like moving Micah around AND up the middle hitting the weakest link. Tom Brady needs to have someone in his face just watch cinnci and the saints game. Hit their weakest links on D too.

 

[Syron]

MM directed Moore to be bland. He told the starters play a half and a series and I will get you out BUT this is the NFL and the teams are so close now that if you take your foot off the gas even a little you can half this type of performance. This had a preseason type feel. Remember Brad Sham said they would be trying things and remember coming out of half they said they wanted to pull players. It didnt workout like that. MM wanted tbay and he got them now prepare for it. You better have some changeups like moving Micah around AND up the middle hitting the weakest link. Tom Brady needs to have someone in his face just watch cinnci and the saints game. Hit their weakest links on D too.

But why? The Bills had nothing to play for, and they didn't throw out a JV offensive attack. Nor the Vikings, Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, Chiefs. Even the Giants, with their rested starters and nothing to play for, didn't start a preseason offensive strategy. Winning teams want to win. They don't ever want to establish a culture of losing. You think Jimmy Johnson, Parcels, Bellick would have been happy with the team's performance? And even if there was a plan, go out there and experiment for 1-2 qtrs. Try trick plays. Line up and run around in a circle before coming to the line. Try the Philly special. Etc. Plenty of ways to show the team and fanbase you are just gearing up for the Playoffs.

It's a good excuse, but that would imply the coaching staff actually had a plan. They do not.

More likely then not, the team was just ill prepared, saw a third string QB on a team with nothing to play for, and just was caught looking ahead to TB.

 

[NotForLong]

P.s. Off topic, but we really enjoy the Vanilla Gorilla. Just something funny about his attitude or how he looks. And he does some to shed well, to make tackles before they even get to the next level, in run defense.

This guy

 

[cmoney23]

I'm a Skins fan, but I'd love to get some insight from "the other side". There is a famous book on military strategy by Hart, The Other Side of the Hill, where he interviewed German generals and got their perspective on which Allied generals were good/not (Patton better than Monty), which servicemen were braver (English better than Americans), etc.

Now of course fans are interested in how their players did (not the opposition). So the norm on fan sites is to read about "how our guys messed up" in a loss. This is the same for y'all, for Commanders, for the Browns, etc. And nothing wrong with that. Of course that is your focus.

But still, I'm curious what your impressions of the Skins defense were, from "the other side of the hill". It's perplexing to me how they were able to stymie Dallas, which has an explosive offense, when the Skins were down several starters (DT Allen, S Kurl, C BSJ (and Jackson before that), LB Davis and Bostic (and Holcomb before that).

We are very excited by Howell (and maybe there should be an analysis on why/how you didn't abuse him). But it seems like the victory was much more about the defense than the offense. A pick six, two turnovers on downs (one in punt defense), a fumble recovery in punt defense, and only 6 points conceded. Also, they seemed to stop both the run and the pass (from yardage totals).

Was there something schematic that Washington did to confuse Dak/Moore? Or some standard defense that matches well against them (might be repeated by other opponents)?

Just from snap counts, it looked like our normal "no base", with 4-2-5 (nickel) 80% of snaps, with a small amount of 5-1-5 (we call it "cinco", but it's really just a 3-4 front in nickel--one-two of the DEs standing up like an OLB in 3-4, and one MLB missing) and 4-1-6 (dime). So, our normal packages that we've run all year at least (not some strange Belichick thing). [I guess the one thing I heard was that for SS they switched a lot...tried to sub in Reeves, a coverage liability, on run downs and Butler on pass downs.]

Of course, I don't know how the DBs were deployed or how the line played their gaps. Hard to evaluate for a non-expert, watching live broadcast.

Obviously some aspects are luck (the punter sack), but others like the pick six seem more non-flukey. Fuller was in position for that two plays in a row. He also had a very similar pick six against the (other) Texans a few weeks ago.

Anyhow, just appreciate your thoughts. Was it all luck (or Dallas poor play) or was there something schematic (or even personnel strengths) of Washington that affected the outcome?

P.s. Off topic, but we really enjoy the Vanilla Gorilla. Just something funny about his attitude or how he looks. And he does some to shed well, to make tackles before they even get to the next level, in run defense.

Washington has invested a lot of time and capital in their front 4. That group DOMINATED the game, especially in the run game. That group outplayed out 'makeshift" offensive line, again, especially in the run game. Our offense is predicated on the run game. It sets up everything we do.

Additionally, Moore, when he's got us rolling, draws up a lot of plays to get guys open, when we struggle it's usually due to a lack of effective play action and trying to throw into zones. You compound that struggle with the mistakes and you get what we got yesterday.

 

[cmoney23]

Be careful with crazy evidence like this. The common excuse around here seems to be that the WRs can't get open.

Who is open here? Not the guys circled. Shultz is the only one open and he's backside of this read.

 

[Praxit]

...what I saw yesterday. Was a Dallas team playing down to competition. Wash had nothing to play for.

Dallas on other hand, we're outside looking in, metaphorically. They're fate rested in other teams.

As to where they could possibly land in seeding column. By halftime, Philly was 16-0 on NYG. Fate was sealed.

Dallas funk continued. But give props to Washington front 7. They brought momentum, Dallas could not match.

PS.....that old saying came to mind. "When it rains, it pours".

 

[atlantacowboy]

Here's the deal. For whatever reason, our offense was very vanilla yesterday. We hardly ran any motion and could not run the ball. That puts the offense on Daks shoulders which is never a good thing. You put him under pressure and his accuracy goes right out the window. He is not has never been good under pressure.

The team is also 1-4 on grass. Jerry has spoiled these guys so much that without turf, they don't play the same.

 

[TheCoolFan]

 

[Runwildboys]

Washington played hard, and Dallas played soft. When Turpin muffed the punt I knew it was gonna be one of those games. I lost count of how many times Washington started inside the 30. Was it 3, plus the pick 6?

 

[Spurdog]

Be careful with crazy evidence like this. The common excuse around here seems to be that the WRs can't get open.

And in that pic the ball should already be damn near to the WR and he is still holding the ball. The deepest WR are 20 yds down the field so he's had at least 3 seconds post snap. And the TE on the L is completely uncovered.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm a Skins fan, but I'd love to get some insight from "the other side". There is a famous book on military strategy by Hart, The Other Side of the Hill, where he interviewed German generals and got their perspective on which Allied generals were good/not (Patton better than Monty), which servicemen were braver (English better than Americans), etc.

Now of course fans are interested in how their players did (not the opposition). So the norm on fan sites is to read about "how our guys messed up" in a loss. This is the same for y'all, for Commanders, for the Browns, etc. And nothing wrong with that. Of course that is your focus.

But still, I'm curious what your impressions of the Skins defense were, from "the other side of the hill". It's perplexing to me how they were able to stymie Dallas, which has an explosive offense, when the Skins were down several starters (DT Allen, S Kurl, C BSJ (and Jackson before that), LB Davis and Bostic (and Holcomb before that).

We are very excited by Howell (and maybe there should be an analysis on why/how you didn't abuse him). But it seems like the victory was much more about the defense than the offense. A pick six, two turnovers on downs (one in punt defense), a fumble recovery in punt defense, and only 6 points conceded. Also, they seemed to stop both the run and the pass (from yardage totals).

Was there something schematic that Washington did to confuse Dak/Moore? Or some standard defense that matches well against them (might be repeated by other opponents)?

Just from snap counts, it looked like our normal "no base", with 4-2-5 (nickel) 80% of snaps, with a small amount of 5-1-5 (we call it "cinco", but it's really just a 3-4 front in nickel--one-two of the DEs standing up like an OLB in 3-4, and one MLB missing) and 4-1-6 (dime). So, our normal packages that we've run all year at least (not some strange Belichick thing). [I guess the one thing I heard was that for SS they switched a lot...tried to sub in Reeves, a coverage liability, on run downs and Butler on pass downs.]

Of course, I don't know how the DBs were deployed or how the line played their gaps. Hard to evaluate for a non-expert, watching live broadcast.

Obviously some aspects are luck (the punter sack), but others like the pick six seem more non-flukey. Fuller was in position for that two plays in a row. He also had a very similar pick six against the (other) Texans a few weeks ago.

Anyhow, just appreciate your thoughts. Was it all luck (or Dallas poor play) or was there something schematic (or even personnel strengths) of Washington that affected the outcome?

P.s. Off topic, but we really enjoy the Vanilla Gorilla. Just something funny about his attitude or how he looks. And he does some to shed well, to make tackles before they even get to the next level, in run defense.

Its very very simple. Your front 4 stopped the run and our dumb coaches continued to feature a washed up Zeke which played right into your hands. Even into the 3rd Quarter we refused to go hurry up and pass the ball more. So it was always 3rd and long and then you guys did a great job of going into nickel and covering our guys.

Your Dline destroyed our Oline. Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

 

[Cmac]

I immediately see an OL beaten.......beaten immediately......and 4 DL breaking down 5 OL, and Gallup open and perhaps Shultz too.

 

[Stsinaz12]

But why? The Bills had nothing to play for, and they didn't throw out a JV offensive attack. Nor the Vikings, Bengals, Eagles, 49ers, Chiefs. Even the Giants, with their rested starters and nothing to play for, didn't start a preseason offensive strategy. Winning teams want to win. They don't ever want to establish a culture of losing. You think Jimmy Johnson, Parcels, Bellick would have been happy with the team's performance? And even if there was a plan, go out there and experiment for 1-2 qtrs. Try trick plays. Line up and run around in a circle before coming to the line. Try the Philly special. Etc. Plenty of ways to show the team and fanbase you are just gearing up for the Playoffs.

It's a good excuse, but that would imply the coaching staff actually had a plan. They do not.

More likely then not, the team was just ill prepared, saw a third string QB on a team with nothing to play for, and just was caught looking ahead to TB.

Parcells tanked games that meant nothing on purpose. Every year he did in preseason games to get his team fired up the next week. Mm and moore could have done it themselves if they wanted to. This game meant nothing! He wanted a wake up call he wanted tampa bay. He got what he wanted on all fronts!

 

[Stsinaz12]

Washington has invested a lot of time and capital in their front 4. That group DOMINATED the game, especially in the run game. That group outplayed out 'makeshift" offensive line, again, especially in the run game. Our offense is predicated on the run game. It sets up everything we do.

Additionally, Moore, when he's got us rolling, draws up a lot of plays to get guys open, when we struggle it's usually due to a lack of effective play action and trying to throw into zones. You compound that struggle with the mistakes and you get what we got yesterday.

Just get a qb thats all you need and a new owner

 

[ApolytonGP]

So it was always 3rd and long and then you guys did a great job of going into nickel and covering our guys.

Thanks for the feedback. FYI, we are in nickel (or more) 100% of the time. We run nickel more than 80% of the time and dime the remainder. We haven't played a single "base" (4 DBs) set in several games. So maybe we switched into dime (or at least nickel with Butler at SS instead of Reeves). But I doubt we had any base snaps in this game.

So it wasn't "switching into nickel". Somehow we were able to stop the run even already in nickel. Maybe Dallas should have switched into heavier formations (multiple TEs or even extra OLs).

 

[CowboyRoy]

Thanks for the feedback. FYI, we are in nickel (or more) 100% of the time. We run nickel more than 80% of the time and dime the remainder. We haven't played a single "base" (4 DBs) set in several games. So maybe we switched into dime (or at least nickel with Butler at SS instead of Reeves). But I doubt we had any base snaps in this game.

So it wasn't "switching into nickel". Somehow we were able to stop the run even already in nickel. Maybe Dallas should have switched into heavier formations (multiple TEs or even extra OLs).

Yes, its what makes your defense so difficult. You can do that because you are able to stop the run with just 4 lineman and 2 LBers. We mostly play nickel as well, however, we have trouble stopping the run most of the time.

 

[Syron]

Parcells tanked games that meant nothing on purpose. Every year he did in preseason games to get his team fired up the next week. Mm and moore could have done it themselves if they wanted to. This game meant nothing! He wanted a wake up call he wanted tampa bay. He got what he wanted on all fronts!

Right...well I guess we will see, wont we?

 

[IceStar-D7]

a mirror that's how. Dallas swore they were looking hot. Until the Commanders defense broke that mirror.

 

[Syron]

And in that pic the ball should already be damn near to the WR and he is still holding the ball. The deepest WR are 20 yds down the field so he's had at least 3 seconds post snap. And the TE on the L is completely uncovered.

That's Dak to a T. Holding onto the ball too long. Gallup should have had the ball already. No way 25 could have made a play on it with his back to the QB. Dak holds onto the ball and checks down the routes. But this puts a ton of pressure on the Oline and ultimate gives time for the DBs to caught up to the play.

Listen to most form WOs in the league and they will tell you being open is a step on the defender. Most of these guys have 5 yards of separation.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Y'ALL MEAN TO TELL ME A QB WHO CAN'T THROW, A RUNNING BACK THAT IS SLOWER than the head coach, WRs who can't catch or get open, an offensive coordinator who only calls curl routes and has everyone running deep which causes the QB to do the Scramble Drill! Not hard to stop!!!