What happened to Philly?
They sprung leaks over the last few years. 2017 was a debacle with Tyron out. 2018 our pass blocking really struggled with Looney and XSF at OC and LG. 2019 I thought was steadier, however Frederick wasnt Frederick.Listening to some pundits this morning, and I hear the "well QB-X does not have Dak's offensive line" statement for the ump-teenth time, I start to think:
I get that Dak has had the benefit of a really good offensive line, but I think it is completely overblown on how good the line is.
Here's my thoughts:
LT - Smith
All-Pro caliber player, but often injured and has never played all 16 games since Dak has been a Dallas Cowboy. The guy has missed 3 games EVERY year since 2016. His replacements? Well one was absolutely terrible, and the others have been mediocre at best. Arguably the most important position on the offensive line has not been as consistent as one would think the past 4 years.
LG - Leary, Cooper, Williams
Leary is probably the best in this group, but was a borderline Pro-Bowler at best and outside 2013, was unable to start 16 games a season. Cooper, despite being a pet-cat of mine during the 2013 NFL draft, he suffered a broken leg during his rookie preseason and never really lived up to expectations. He was not terrible for the Cowboys his lone season, but was not great either. Then Williams is devisive to say the least, so I will leave it at that. In all 3 cases, the most game started by these 3 in a season is Cooper's 13 in the lone year as a Cowboy.
C - Frederick, Looney
I do not have a single negative thing to say about Fredbeard's 2016 and 2017 seasons. He was arguably the best C in the NFL those two years. Then came the illness and Fredbeard was out a whole season and was clearly not the same in 2019. I don't blame him, as stuff happens. Looney seemed to do good, but as it has been pointed out, Looney was given a lot of help too. While I expect Looney to complete for the C spot post-Fredbeard, I would not expect him to win despite starting all 16 games 2018. I will be interesting to see.
RG - Martin
All-Pro, one of the best in the NFL. Outside of a 2 game stint where he rested at the end of 2018 for a knee injury, nothing to complain about here. If he NEEDED to play those two games, I think he would have played and still been better than most NFL OGs.
RT - Free, Collins
Personally, I think Free was better than what he was given credit for, but he was never a top OT in the NFL. In 2016, his 9th and final year in the league, he manned the spot and was about average before finally retiring in the offseason. Then there is Collins. If we had 2019 Collins in 2017 and 2018, then I don't think there would be much of a gripe with him, but man was he inconsistent his first two years at RT.
So I have no issues with anyone saying that 2016 line of Adams-Leary-Frederick-Martin-Free was great. Free was probably the weakest link that year, and again, he was not nearly as bad as he was accused of being.
But after 2016? Ya, the lack of availability and/or ability started to hurt virtually every spot except RG. Again, still better than some teams out there, but hardly the "best oline in the league" material. Hell, they may have not been the best oline in the NFC East, but we don't hear much about that.
I apologize in advance when this thread morphs into a Dak debate thread. I hope this stays on target about the offensive line for the past few years, but I would almost be willing to bet a house I do not own on it will not stay that way for long.
The OL has not had a plus season since 2016.
OL coach Bill Callahan created a scheme that allowed Doug Free to be functional. He had Martin cheat closer to Free which allowed Free to over-set to the outside without a big worry of getting beat inside. In the run game they schemed to have Free blocking LBs and used other methods to block the DE. If Free did have to run block vs a DE it would be wall-off blocks where Free just had to get in the way to delay the DE.
Free gave up 9 sacks in 2016 but he had the knowledge of the scheme from being coached by Callahan who departed after 2014. Once Free and Leary departed after 2016, 3/5ths of the Callahan coached players were gone.
The best lineup since the Nineties was the 7 games in 2014 when Jermey Parnell started at RT. That included 2 playoff games. They had Leary at LG and the 3 All-Pros. Parnell allowed a total of 1 sack in his 7 starts and was a dominant power run blocker.
What's really funny about all this is the glorifying of Looney and Filo and the bashing of Williams!!!Fans won't believe it, but Connor Williams was probably the 3rd best player on the OL last season before he was out injured.
Fans want to see Larry Allen over-whelming power from OLinemen and don't appreciate great technical play. Only a few fans appreciated Stepnoski back in the day.
La'el has the physical ability to over-power defenders which fans love, but he was still making a large number of mistakes in run blocking last season.
Frederick in 2019
- Frederick was definitely off. His power seemed good but he often just couldn't get to the spot in time and even seemed to have slower reactions mentally.
- On some plays he still looked like his old self but there was a fairly extreme lack of consistency from a guy that had been one of the most consistent football players ever.
- He was still better than Looney in 2018. Even if Looney played at the same level as Frederick in 2019, Looney didn't make the other players better like Frederick has always done.
- Frederick's ability to make the calls and be like and on-field coach were as good as it gets. Like Zeke said, "Frederick is the smartest guy in the building".
- I took Zeke's comments to mean that he thought Frederick was smarter than the coaches.
Connor Williams
- Connor Williams was a little inconsistent for the first 3 games but he was playing very well after that.
- His angles/timing in getting out to run block on the 2nd level were terrific.
- His ability to pick up and pass off stunting DL and bllitzers was also terrific.
- He tended to steer pass rushers wide much like an OT and fans think that means he was getting beat.
- In reality if the pass rusher never comes within 2 yards of the QB then CW has done his job.
- His lack of power is also over-blown by fans and pseudo-media. When he can block from a balanced position, he has decent power even goal-line/short-yardage.
- The lack of bulk/power was just an issue when he had to reach out from a non-ideal body position.
- Tyron can reach out and toss a defender to the ground with 1 hand even when he is off-balance and reaching far outside his body. Most mortals can't do that.
Listening to some pundits this morning, and I hear the "well QB-X does not have Dak's offensive line" statement for the ump-teenth time, I start to think:
I get that Dak has had the benefit of a really good offensive line, but I think it is completely overblown on how good the line is.
But after 2016? Ya, the lack of availability and/or ability started to hurt virtually every spot except RG. Again, still better than some teams out there, but hardly the "best oline in the league" material. Hell, they may have not been the best oline in the NFC East, but we don't hear much about that.
I apologize in advance when this thread morphs into a Dak debate thread. I hope this stays on target about the offensive line for the past few years, but I would almost be willing to bet a house I do not own on it will not stay that way for long.
Well, the olines was ranked between 2nd and 4th best overall last year.Frederick was way off of his usual last season.
Not sure if it was a pure strength loss thing.
Martin seemed to take a step back also.
To be clear I mean in run blocking, pass protection was fine.
I dont know, the severe predictability could have had something to do with it.
We have some high potential guys, but the interior OL being dominant in run blocking is no longer a slam dunk...for now anyway.
Tyron was playing at an all-pro level last year before his 40 million dollar QB shattered his ankle. Even with him rushing back into the line-up before he was healed he still finished as the 3rd best LT in the NFC. The first 3 games back from injury where rough (medicore game grades and lots of penalites) but he finished with high game grades in his last 6 games and only had a combined 1 holding penalty in those final 6 games (he basically started and ended the season at an extremely high level)
Williams finally had a good 2 game stretch but of course got injured again (3rd straight season of knee surgery, his 4th knee surgery total in those 3 years). I really don't understand the draft hype on him
Frederick did okay but is gone. Zack Martin finished 1st team all-pro AGAIN and ironically the only 2 all-pro worthy players at his position (Yanda and Brooks) aren't playing in 2020 so expect Martin to make all-pro team again for the 7th straight year
Collins was arguably the most controversial/mixed emotion of the 4 extensions last off-season but he played the best of the four. Great season
Whose rank was this?
Collins was arguably the 4th or 5th best RT in the entire league. Martin was the only offensive lineman that played better. D-law and Jaylon weren't even top 10 at there positions and Zeke was probably on par with Collins with Collins having the higher upside and the more team friendly contract (Collins contract was easily the best of the four)Collins was far from the "best of the 4". He was the 4th or 5th best OLineman. He made many mistakes in run blocking.
Wrong.Collins was arguably the 4th or 5th best RT in the entire league. Martin was the only offensive lineman that played better. D-law and Jaylon weren't even top 10 at there positions and Zeke was probably on par with Collins with Collins having the higher upside and the more team friendly contract (Collins contract was easily the best of the four)
They sprung leaks over the last few years. 2017 was a debacle with Tyron out. 2018 our pass blocking really struggled with Looney and XSF at OC and LG. 2019 I thought was steadier, however Frederick wasnt Frederick.
I think we are in good shape though. We have actively added talent over the last few drafts. We have 3 draft picks that are going to compete for two positions in camp (along with Looney). I think thag bodes well
It's an elite offensive line that has suffered from a lack of offensive diversity and the inability to get out of playcalls and into the right ones at the line of scrimmage.Listening to some pundits this morning, and I hear the "well QB-X does not have Dak's offensive line" statement for the ump-teenth time, I start to think:
I get that Dak has had the benefit of a really good offensive line, but I think it is completely overblown on how good the line is.
Here's my thoughts:
LT - Smith
All-Pro caliber player, but often injured and has never played all 16 games since Dak has been a Dallas Cowboy. The guy has missed 3 games EVERY year since 2016. His replacements? Well one was absolutely terrible, and the others have been mediocre at best. Arguably the most important position on the offensive line has not been as consistent as one would think the past 4 years.
LG - Leary, Cooper, Williams
Leary is probably the best in this group, but was a borderline Pro-Bowler at best and outside 2013, was unable to start 16 games a season. Cooper, despite being a pet-cat of mine during the 2013 NFL draft, he suffered a broken leg during his rookie preseason and never really lived up to expectations. He was not terrible for the Cowboys his lone season, but was not great either. Then Williams is devisive to say the least, so I will leave it at that. In all 3 cases, the most game started by these 3 in a season is Cooper's 13 in the lone year as a Cowboy.
C - Frederick, Looney
I do not have a single negative thing to say about Fredbeard's 2016 and 2017 seasons. He was arguably the best C in the NFL those two years. Then came the illness and Fredbeard was out a whole season and was clearly not the same in 2019. I don't blame him, as stuff happens. Looney seemed to do good, but as it has been pointed out, Looney was given a lot of help too. While I expect Looney to complete for the C spot post-Fredbeard, I would not expect him to win despite starting all 16 games 2018. I will be interesting to see.
RG - Martin
All-Pro, one of the best in the NFL. Outside of a 2 game stint where he rested at the end of 2018 for a knee injury, nothing to complain about here. If he NEEDED to play those two games, I think he would have played and still been better than most NFL OGs.
RT - Free, Collins
Personally, I think Free was better than what he was given credit for, but he was never a top OT in the NFL. In 2016, his 9th and final year in the league, he manned the spot and was about average before finally retiring in the offseason. Then there is Collins. If we had 2019 Collins in 2017 and 2018, then I don't think there would be much of a gripe with him, but man was he inconsistent his first two years at RT.
So I have no issues with anyone saying that 2016 line of Adams-Leary-Frederick-Martin-Free was great. Free was probably the weakest link that year, and again, he was not nearly as bad as he was accused of being.
But after 2016? Ya, the lack of availability and/or ability started to hurt virtually every spot except RG. Again, still better than some teams out there, but hardly the "best oline in the league" material. Hell, they may have not been the best oline in the NFC East, but we don't hear much about that.
I apologize in advance when this thread morphs into a Dak debate thread. I hope this stays on target about the offensive line for the past few years, but I would almost be willing to bet a house I do not own on it will not stay that way for long.