How important is pedigree?

Galian Beast

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You know most of us probably want to say it's not that important, but looking at super bowl winning teams, I just don't see that. They are usually littered with "first day" players, and quite a bit from the first round.

In 2009 our secondary was a strength and it was also littered with 1st day players. Newman and Jenkins were both 1st round draft picks. And Ken Hamlin was a 2nd round draft pick from the seahawks. Problem is when players either regressed or got too old, and injuries became a factor along with other things.

I'm excited to see us add some fresh pedigree to our defense with Claiborne, and to a lesser extent Crawford.
 
Galian Beast;4548780 said:
You know most of us probably want to say it's not that important, but looking at super bowl winning teams, I just don't see that. They are usually littered with "first day" players, and quite a bit from the first round.

In 2009 our secondary was a strength and it was also littered with 1st day players. Newman and Jenkins were both 1st round draft picks. And Ken Hamlin was a 2nd round draft pick from the seahawks. Problem is when players either regressed or got too old, and injuries became a factor along with other things.

I'm excited to see us add some fresh pedigree to our defense with Claiborne, and to a lesser extent Crawford.

This is just conflating pedigree with any of the factors (talent, work ethic, football intelligence, etc.) that might contribute to success in the NFL.

It's true that in absence of other information, draft status might be an indicator of the relative ability or likelihood of success. However, once you start to accumulate information from practices and games, that information explains away anything that draft status might have predicted.

Nevertheless, many observers want to continue to place emphasis on draft status even in the face of mountains of contradictory evidence.
 
Teams are built through the draft. It's not surprising that SB winning teams have several high round draft picks... that means they're drafting properly.
 
Well, pedigree is my pet agenda so I am hoping to really enjoy this thread.
 
Well the fans and media always want to bring up the Giants pass rush, but if you look at their secondary, it definitely has 'pedigree'.

Both of their starting safeties were 1st rounders, both starting CBs were 2nd rounders, and they had a 1st round rookie CB to develop. And 3 out of 4 guys who were starters in their secondary were drafted by the Giants.

Sure they had a good pass rush, but people really underestimate how much the secondary stepped up for that team, how many resources the Giants have spent there, and how they lived up to their 'pedigree'.
 
Very.

best-in-show-best-in-show-0012.jpg
 
the truth is only in perception is it important
 
I think your problem is the misuse of the word 'pedigree'. Pedigree and being drafted on the 1st day aren't really connected in any way.
 
Pedigree is bloodline, an assumption that the genes of the parent known for production are exhibited in the offspring. People who use pedigree in an NFL context substitute the uninformed opinion of self-appointed experts (usually media people) for bloodlines -- assuming those uninformed opinions trump actual production even after the opposite is proved.

I do not suggest that players of high draft status very often fail to produce (though more than a few may), but I do say NFL production is the only true measure of NFL pedigree and I have no patience with those who assume before an opportunity to produce in the NFL is afforded them that low-drafted or un-drafted players are inferior NFL material.

Tony Romo is a case in point.

:)
 
thanks angus for the defintion, i do believe it is the most misused term in todays nfl talk
 
I had hoped for a lot more input on this topic. As I said it is a particular favorite of mine. Pedigree in the strict sense of the term is bloodline. But sometimes a pedigree can be something else as it pertains to football.

In horse racing we've all heard of the great horse Secretariat. I am a huge horse racing fan and I happen to believe Williams Nack's Sports Illustrated article about the death of Secretariat is the finest sport article ever written. If anyone is curious let me know and I will sned you a link. Warning...it is incredibly long. But well worth the read. It is actually that article that inspired the movie about this great horse.

Secretariat's sire was a horse named Bold Ruler. He was perhaps the greatest stud horse of the times. But Bold Ruler's offspring did not win Triple Crown Races. His direct heirs only won three Triple Crown Races. All three by Secretariat in 1973.

The other race horses all had the same pedigree as Secretariat. Yet he was the only Champion sired by this great stud horse.

Why? Because all pedigree is in reality is an opportunity. Jason Garrett is looking for his "Right Kind of Guys" for this football team. I will argue with you that in a lot of ways, he is looking for pedigree. It can be accomplished in so many ways.

1. Son of a coach, scout, or former player. If Dad or Uncle or someone was involved in some way, chances are the kid has had a football environment around him giving him a pedigree. Is anyone going to tell me that Peyton Manning doesn't have a pedigree? Of course not. We all know about Archie. I noticed that Matt Johnson and Caleb McSurdy have some pedigree too. I consider this an opportunity. Just like Secretariat's siblings got to race, these kids have a shot. To win, they have to have more than pedigree.

2. Product of a system. You would have a hard time convincing me that Norm Chow doesn't give his QBs pedigree. Look at the products of his system from BYU, USC, and NC State. You think I won't be watching his QBs at Hawaii? I guarantee you I will. Sean Lee and Dan Connor have pedigree as Penn State LBs. Bill Nagy has pedigree as a Wisconsin O-Lineman. Being a product of a system doesn't guarantee you success either. It does open a door. Does anyone here honestly think NFL Scouts don't go to Boston College to look at OL? Of course they do. Wisconsin may have moved ahead of BC, but BC is still among the best places to scout for pieces to an OL puzzle. I will be watching Pittsburgh soon because Wisconsin's OC, Paul Chryst, took the HC job at Pittsburgh. That is pedigree.

3. Product of a dream. I would argue with you that Tony Romo has NFL pedigree for a couple of reasons. One is that Mike Shanahan and Sean Payton were both QBs at Romo's Alma Mater. He has pedigree from that, but he has it because it is a dream. I want to make this distinction. Not his fantasy. Dreams are something you doggedly pursue. Fantasies are something you hope for. Tony Romo is living his dream because he gives it all he has. Some kids can have all the talent in the world and do you know what they want to do with that talent? Get Paid. So they get paid, get laid, live the high life, and their careers never get off the ground. They might be a product of a highly successful program, but if it is not something driving them, if money is the only thing driving them, then their pedigree got them their shot and some money, but that's it. These players are usually the ones who are bankrupt despite earning millions in their careers. When money is your dream, there is no other drive.

That is what pedigree is to me, an inside look that opens a door. Pedigree without drive is Bold Lad. He was an heir of Bold Ruler and even a champion as a 2 year old colt. But he never was anything with the big boys. Pedigree with drive, is the Right Kind of Guy.

One last thing, I believe Tyrone Crawford is a Right Kind of Guy. He has some pedigree. It isn't because his Dad was a football star. It isn't because Boise State produces DEs that tear up the NFL. It isn't even about Boise State at all. He has pedigree because he saw how hard his Mom worked to give him his opportunities and it drives him to succeed. It opened his door. Opened it right up to the Dallas Cowboys, America's Team. How perfect is it that Chad Henning introduced his name with that nickname and in his interview he repeated that nickname and branded it? I'll tell you how perfect it is. He knows the opportunity in front of him and the price it will take. He knows it because this isn't his fantasy. it's his dream. It is what drives him.

That's pedigree.

To answer the question the thread raises. How important is pedigree? Not worth a damn if you aren't driven. priceless if you are and for the right reasons.
 
I'll pull a Stephen A. Smith and say this,

Pedigree is pertinent but not necessarily relevant. Aptitude, or lack thereof, can be attributed to a pedigree. Peyton Manning may have taught Eli the nuances of being an NFL caliber quarterback but it's ultimately up to Eli to take that wisdom and integrate it into his game.

Now, an only child with no link to the NFL can transcend the game because he invested in his craft and pushed the envelope.

And this one is at you Hos, I completely and utterly... 100% agree. Drive develops "pedigree." But pedigree can't develop drive. Name doesn't mean spit and won't amount to anything more than urine sample if you're not up to the challenge that being in your position brings.

Skilled or no. Heritage or no.

Having a Mercedes Benz doesn't get you to the supermarket. Putting your foot on the gas does.

Hos, great post.
 
Modus;4549973 said:
I'll pull a Stephen A. Smith and say this,

Pedigree is pertinent but not necessarily relevant. Aptitude, or lack thereof, can be attributed to a pedigree. Peyton Manning may have taught Eli the nuances of being an NFL caliber quarterback but it's ultimately up to Eli to take that wisdom and integrate it into his game.

Now, an only child with no link to the NFL can transcend the game because he invested in his craft and pushed the envelope.

And this one is at you Hos, I completely and utterly... 100% agree. Drive develops "pedigree." But pedigree can't develop drive. Name doesn't mean spit and won't amount to anything more than urine sample if you're not up to the challenge that being in your position brings.

Skilled or no. Heritage or no.

Having a Mercedes Benz doesn't get you to the supermarket. Putting your foot on the gas does.

Hos, great post.
:bow:
 
Galian Beast;4548780 said:
You know most of us probably want to say it's not that important, but looking at super bowl winning teams, I just don't see that. They are usually littered with "first day" players, and quite a bit from the first round.

In 2009 our secondary was a strength and it was also littered with 1st day players. Newman and Jenkins were both 1st round draft picks. And Ken Hamlin was a 2nd round draft pick from the seahawks. Problem is when players either regressed or got too old, and injuries became a factor along with other things.

I'm excited to see us add some fresh pedigree to our defense with Claiborne, and to a lesser extent Crawford.

Didn't read all the post to see if anyone already brought this up, but pedigree and 1st round talent are two different things.

Pedigree is a reference to the family a player comes from. For instance, Clay Matthews comes from a family of football players. He comes from a good football pedigree. Same is true of Eli and Peyton. The same was also true of Phil Simms son, Chris Simms. The same is true of Saalim Hakim, the newest addition to the Cowboy's undrafted free agent class.

Pedigree is generally referred to right before the draft. Pedigree is one of the reason's the Cowboys mucked up their 1st round pick with Bobbie Carpenter. Sometimes pedigree has an impact. Other times it's the reason a player got drafter higher than they should be. Either way, it has nothing to do with winning Super Bowls.
 
Sorry, but every time I hear talk of a player's pedigree I shudder. It just seems politically incorrect.
 
SDCowboy85;4548797 said:
None. This isn't a dog show. It's football.

It's such a stupid concept that has been puked all over this board for years. Romo, Ratliff, Austin, et cetera have effectively put it to rest though. Over the years, the definition has changed. Even then, it's still about as dumb as it was when the concept for "began" on CZ.
 

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