How to calculate Tax Returns with Home Purchase

[Maikeru-sama]

Anybody know of a Website or a rough formula I could use to find out how much I would get back from Uncle Sam if I got a house?

My option period ends this Friday and I am going over my numbers with a fine toothe comb again to really make sure buying this house makes sense.

 

[theogt]

Anybody know of a Website or a rough formula I could use to find out how much I would get back from Uncle Sam if I got a house?

My option period ends this Friday and I am going over my numbers with a fine toothe comb again to really make sure buying this house makes sense.

It's so fact driven, I doubt you could find a calculator. It's a bit complicated because it depends on if you have other deductible items or if you've been taking the standard deduction.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

It's so fact driven, I doubt you could find a calculator. It's a bit complicated because it depends on if you have other deductible items or if you've been taking the standard deduction.

Yeah, I was reading this WSJ Article yesterday about how home ownership was not all it is cracked up to be. However, this portion of the article got my attention.

Tax Benefits

The tax breaks on home ownership are useful, but in many cases overstated.

To write off mortgage interest, you must itemize deductions. And that means forgoing the standard deduction that everybody gets, whether they rent, own, or live in a box.

For a couple filing jointly, the standard deduction is $10,900. That's about the same as the interest and property taxes on a $220,000 home (Assuming a 20% down payment, a mortgage at 5%, and 1% property taxes). So your tax breaks on home ownership are only valuable if the value of your home is above that.

If you're single, the picture is better because your standard deduction is just $5,450. The tax breaks on home ownership start to kick in on homes over maybe $110,000.

The story doesn't end there. The calculations also depend on what other itemized deductions you take, your state and local taxes, as well as your tax bracket, your property taxes and so on.

Low mortgage rates mean these breaks are actually worth less in comparative terms. You'll be paying less in interest and, thus, will have less to deduct from your taxes.

link

Obviously, I wouldnt see anything substantial anyway in 2009 because I would have only paid mortgage for 4 months.

I have about 10 spreadsheets that I have created. One of them shows a rough breakdown of Rent vs Buy for 6/09 - 1/10 and Renting is cheaper by only about $2500. However that is for the first year and it is artificially inflated on the Buy side because of the Tax Credit, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be paying another huge Downpayment.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Purchasing a home allows you to take so many more deductions than if you've been taking the standard deduction.

Prior to owning a home, you may have had a bunch of deductions, but they weren't above the standard deduction. Now with a home, you get to take those deductions in addition to the home deductions.

Some deductions post-home purchase
home office
real estate taxes
mortgage insurance
State sales tax (Texas-only and that's only until they expire after 2010, I think)
Charitable deductions
Miscellaneous deductions
Medical expenses (since I'm assuming you're a healthy dude, you won't qualify)

As to what you might or not get on your 2009 return, that's anybody's guess.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Purchasing a home allows you to take so many more deductions than if you've been taking the standard deduction.

Prior to owning a home, you may have had a bunch of deductions, but they weren't above the standard deduction. Now with a home, you get to take those deductions in addition to the home deductions.

Some deductions post-home purchase
home office
real estate taxes
mortgage insurance
State sales tax (Texas-only and that's only until they expire after 2010, I think)
Charitable deductions
Miscellaneous deductions
Medical expenses (since I'm assuming you're a healthy dude, you won't qualify)

As to what you might or not get on your 2009 return, that's anybody's guess.

Hmmm, I have always taken the Standard Deduction but even as a renter, I would qualify for alot of the stuff you posted (medical, charity etc etc).

While we are talking about taxes, has anybody here ever filed an Amended Tax Return using Turbo Tax Basic?

I was going to have Jackson-Hewitt do it, but they said since they didn't do my Taxes (I do my own taxes) it would be like doing the entire thing over again just to do an amendment and would be like $300.

A co-worker in the Budget Department convinced me that it is easy to do an Amended Tax Return. I believe the form is called a 1040X but I am not sure if Turbo Tax Basic makes these forms.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Hmmm, I have always taken the Standard Deduction but even as a renter, I would qualify for alot of the stuff you posted (medical, charity etc etc).

The question isn't whether you qualified. It's whether you had enough to itemize versus taking the standard. You may very well have or you may not have. If you had over 5,450 in deductions, then you could've itemized.

I had a client (I do taxes on the side) and I didn't think they'd have enough to itemize, but because they gave so much in charitable donations, they were able to itemize.

While we are talking about taxes, has anybody here ever filed an Amended Tax Return using Turbo Tax Basic?

I was going to have Jackson-Hewitt do it, but they said since they didn't do my Taxes (I do my own taxes) it would be like doing the entire thing over again just to do an amendment and would be like $300.

A co-worker in the Budget Department convinced me that it is easy to do an Amended Tax Return. I believe the form is called a 1040X but I am not sure if Turbo Tax Basic makes these forms.

I filed an amended return for someone through Turbo Tax. It's really easy. If you did your return through Turbo Tax, they give you the option to amend the return. After you select the amended return option, they re-open your return. All you have to do then is just make your changes to your return and follow the instructions.

You can't e-file an amended return, so you'll have to print the completed forms and then mail it to the address they give you.

A friend of mine, just closed on her house, and filed an amended return. Her brother, who's handling it, said the IRS informed him they are severely backlogged, so she has no idea when she'll get the credit.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

The question isn't whether you qualified. It's whether you had enough to itemize versus taking the standard. You may very well have or you may not have. If you had over 5,450 in deductions, then you could've itemized.

I had a client (I do taxes on the side) and I didn't think they'd have enough to itemize, but because they gave so much in charitable donations, they were able to itemize.

I filed an amended return for someone through Turbo Tax. It's really easy. If you did your return through Turbo Tax, they give you the option to amend the return. After you select the amended return option, they re-open your return. All you have to do then is just make your changes to your return and follow the instructions.

You can't e-file an amended return, so you'll have to print the completed forms and then mail it to the address they give you.

A friend of mine, just closed on her house, and filed an amended return. Her brother, who's handling it, said the IRS informed him they are severely backlogged, so she has no idea when she'll get the credit.

That sucks but what else is new.

I cashed out my 401k, so I paid the Government. So I am worried that when I send the Amended Tax Form in that they will try to re-take the cash out of my Checking Account.

I know one thing, they are sure quick to take your money. When I mailed my Tax Form in a few months ago, they took the money out of my account like 3 days later :laugh2: .

 

[WoodysGirl]

That sucks but what else is new.

I cashed out my 401k, so I paid the Government. So I am worried that when I send the Amended Tax Form in that they will try to re-take the cash out of my Checking Account.

I know one thing, they are sure quick to take your money. When I mailed my Tax Form in a few months ago, they took the money out of my account like 3 days later :laugh2: .

Interesting...and don't hold me to this cuz I haven't really looked that hard into it. But if you use your 401k money to purchase a house, I didn't think you'd be penalized for it. It could be related to the timing of it all.

You should look into it just in case.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Interesting...and don't hold me to this cuz I haven't really looked that hard into it. But if you use your 401k money to purchase a house, I didn't think you'd be penalized for it. It could be related to the timing of it all.

You should look into it just in case.

Yes, but you had to do it before March or April (can't remember which month).

Chances are I will be signing on the dotted line on July 1st. I'm just getting cold feet even though I ran all of these numbers way before and I will be fine with my house note.

My Mortgage-to-Income a month ratio will be going up to 32% as opposed to my Rent-to-Income which is 19%, so that scares me a little.

 

[DFWJC]

You're received a lot of good advice/insight already regarding tax breaks for home purchase and other related deductions. WG made some good points relating to standard deduction thresholds.

The input you received for the article using home price breakeven points misses the point that once you surpass the standard deduction level and go to the long form, all sorts of deductions become available that would not have been there before.

Hopefully you're getting a great price on this house. Because obviously an underlying risk is that value keeps falling and you loose your equity within the first year. Timing-wise, I would think that you would be fairly safe as far as that goes. It could go down further, but that market may already be near bottom. Anyway, if you plan to live there 5+ years, you will be fine in that regard.

You'll also get to deduct in closing costs this 1st year.

If you withdrew funds from your 401K very recently, you may consider making that a "loan" from your 401K so you can use it penalty free (temporarily) for a home purchase. Otherwise, I'm not sure you can pull those funds without paying a penalty.

As far as the 32% ratio, that probably drops to about 20-25% after the deductions.

There are hidden costs to home ownership however. Expect 1% (maybe even 2% for older homes) of the home's value annually for upkeep, etc.

 

[theogt]

PM me your home price, interest, and tenor and I can calculate the interest you pay in the first year. Then if I have your property taxes and your marginal fed income tax rate, I can give you a roundabout # of tax savings, exclusive of any other deductions you can make.

As you know I recently bought a house as well. After the tax savings, I end up paying only about $200 more per month for the house over what my rent was, and the house is more than double the square footage of what I was renting.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

DFWJC, thanks for the post, some very interesting information.

The seller is paying all of my closing costs, so I don't get to deduct that right?

I was laid off in July 2008, so I just cashed out my 401k instead of rolling it into a Roth-IRA. I work in the Public Sector and they use TMRS and therefore rolling the 401k over wasn't an option.

As far as the house, the difference between original listing price and what I paid for it was about $8000. The Seller is paying all closing costs and giving me an allowance. The house was built in 2005 and the inspector told me the house was in great shape. Now there has been some talk about letting them stay for a month or two after closing so that means more money, but I doubt I will agree to that. The house is 15 minutes way from where I work and Murphy, TX is growing like crazy and have some pretty competitve property tax rates. One of the reasons why I have been hesistant is because I know I will be going back to the private sector, so I have to hope I can get something very close as I can't just up and leave like I can now.

I believe in some of the things Robert Kiyosaki says about Primary Residence. I view them as a liability and I look at it as a place where I will live forever (until marriage, kids etc etc), much like Warren Buffet staying in his house for 30 years. This is why I am thinking about buying points because I expect to be there for a long time. However, if I buy 2 points (assuming .125 per point), my break even is 10 years.

I don't own a business or anyting so the only thing I would be able to writeoff is interest paid on the house. I suspect that the Standard Deduction will be higher than the interest paid for 2009.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

PM me your home price, interest, and tenor and I can calculate the interest you pay in the first year. Then if I have your property taxes and your marginal fed income tax rate, I can give you a roundabout # of tax savings, exclusive of any other deductions you can make.

As you know I recently bought a house as well. After the tax savings, I end up paying only about $200 more per month for the house over what my rent was, and the house is more than double the square footage of what I was renting.

Interesting, let me get that info.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Theo, dumb question but what is a "tenor" :laugh2: ?

 

[theogt]

I suspect that the Standard Deduction will be higher than the interest paid for 2009.

Not necessarily. For a $200k house over 30 years at 5%, in the first year you pay $9000 in interest.

Assume 3% property tax (not unusual in Texas) that's an addition deduction of $6000.

Assuming a marginal income tax bracket of 25% (on income from 33,000 to 82,000) that's a tax savings of $2300, or about $200 per month.

 

[theogt]

Theo, dumb question but what is a "tenor" :laugh2: ?

Tenor is debt-speak for the life or term of the loan -- e.g., 30 or 15 years.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Tenor is debt-speak for the life or term of the loan -- e.g., 30 or 15 years.

I will be sending you the requested info in a second.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

buy a boat that you could spend the night in, and you'll get a tax-break as it's considered another home

 

[Maikeru-sama]

buy a boat that you could spend the night in, and you'll get a tax-break as it's considered another home

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

If you haven't owned or had any ownership interest in a home in the last three years you will get 8,000.00 flat back on your taxes before all of the other deductions are taken.