How to gauge whether offensive plan is conservative

[droopdog7]

I feel like way too many posters are using the results to determine whether the game plan was conservative. That’s just plain wrong IMO.

Conservative to me means a bunch of bubble screens or way more running than passing or running on third and long. I didn’t see very much of that at all tonight.

Instead, I saw more pressure in dak than I’d seen this year, an ineffective running game, and a bunch of deep drops where dak surveyed the field and settled. Don’t tell me that dumping the ball off was the game plan. You could certainly see dak looking downfield. He just didn’t throw it down field very often,

One COULD say dak was conservative with his decision making. Perhaps he could have tried to squeeze the ball in more? But it’s also possible that the receivers weren’t getting open. Indeed, that’s most likely.

But lack of deep balls doesn’t mean the plan was conservative necessarily.

 

[WillieBeamen]

I feel like way too many posters are using the results to determine whether the game plan was conservative. That’s just plain wrong IMO.

Conservative to me means a bunch of bubble screens or way more running than passing or running on third and long. I didn’t see very much of that at all tonight.

Instead, I saw more pressure in dak than I’d seen this year, an ineffective running game, and a bunch of deep drops where dak surveyed the field and settled. Don’t tell me that dumping the ball off was the game plan. You could certainly see dak looking downfield. He just didn’t throw it down field very often,

One COULD say dak was conservative with his decision making. Perhaps he could have tried to squeeze the ball in more? But it’s also possible that the receivers weren’t getting open. Indeed, that’s most likely.

But lack of deep balls doesn’t mean the plan was conservative necessarily.

Its a cop out to absolve the qb of any blame. Zeke himself said they didnt become conservative. Dak couldnt make them pay for playing man to man on the outside. Plain and simple

 

[Keithfansince5]

OK. Do you consider a game plan aggressive based on how many deep balls Dak throws? Completes? Because, your logic seems to suggest this.

I would look at it another way. I would say an offense is vanilla if it doesn't scheme its best players into positions where they are likely to win their matchup. So if you see that they are removing Cooper, then scheme him into a play that dictates who he matches up with so you can control the outcome and not the defense. Did we see any of that tonight? Blake Jarwin got wide open on a seam route in the 3rd qtr. DId we ever run that play again? Did jarwin ever make it back onto the field after that play? Why not run that play with Randall Cobb? Cooper? TE's are not the only ones who can run that route. How many button hooks did we run tonight? I saw Cooper running them again. WHy not line up Pollard and Zeke in the back field and roll them out into the flats? DId we run a single crossing route or rub route today?

Coaching is not just what you do at the game but really what you did all weak BEFORE the game. This is where Dallas consistently loses. Our coaches just seem to fail in this area more than they win. We all would love to have Bill Belichick as our HC. If he was, our team would be the ones with more SB trophies then any other team in history. Why? Because he puts his players in positions to win their individual matchups more often than the other guy puts his. It is as simple as that.

 

[droopdog7]

OK. Do you consider a game plan aggressive based on how many deep balls Dak throws? Completes? Because, your logic seems to suggest this.

I would look at it another way. I would say an offense is vanilla if it doesn't scheme its best players into positions where they are likely to win their matchup. So if you see that they are removing Cooper, then scheme him into a play that dictates who he matches up with so you can control the outcome and not the defense. Did we see any of that tonight? Blake Jarwin got wide open on a seam route in the 3rd qtr. DId we ever run that play again? Did jarwin ever make it back onto the field after that play? Why not run that play with Randall Cobb? Cooper? TE's are not the only ones who can run that route. How many button hooks did we run tonight? I saw Cooper running them again. WHy not line up Pollard and Zeke in the back field and roll them out into the flats? DId we run a single crossing route or rub route today?

Coaching is not just what you do at the game but really what you did all weak BEFORE the game. This is where Dallas consistently loses. Our coaches just seem to fail in this area more than they win. We all would love to have Bill Belichick as our HC. If he was, our team would be the ones with more SB trophies then any other team in history. Why? Because he puts his players in positions to win their individual matchups more often than the other guy puts his. It is as simple as that.

Not what I said at all. If I see a bunch of deep balls, then I’d say the qb aggressive.

 

[jwooten15]

I feel like way too many posters are using the results to determine whether the game plan was conservative. That’s just plain wrong IMO.

Conservative to me means a bunch of bubble screens or way more running than passing or running on third and long. I didn’t see very much of that at all tonight.

Instead, I saw more pressure in dak than I’d seen this year, an ineffective running game, and a bunch of deep drops where dak surveyed the field and settled. Don’t tell me that dumping the ball off was the game plan. You could certainly see dak looking downfield. He just didn’t throw it down field very often,

One COULD say dak was conservative with his decision making. Perhaps he could have tried to squeeze the ball in more? But it’s also possible that the receivers weren’t getting open. Indeed, that’s most likely.

But lack of deep balls doesn’t mean the plan was conservative necessarily.

You make a good point there

 

[Keithfansince5]

Not what I said at all. If I see a bunch of deep balls, then I’d say the qb aggressive.

Yet your words" Conservative to me means a bunch of bubble screens or way more running than passing or running on third and long. I didn’t see very much of that at all tonight." and "But lack of deep balls doesn’t mean the plan was conservative necessarily." are suggestive that according to you, conservative means dump off throws, bubble screens, running plays, short routes etc. which by default means that aggressive play calling is the opposite which would be deep throws and 4 wide sets. All I did was see the opposite of what you said was conservative.

 

[droopdog7]

Yet your words" Conservative to me means a bunch of bubble screens or way more running than passing or running on third and long. I didn’t see very much of that at all tonight." and "But lack of deep balls doesn’t mean the plan was conservative necessarily." are suggestive that according to you, conservative means dump off throws, bubble screens, running plays, short routes etc. which by default means that aggressive play calling is the opposite which would be deep throws and 4 wide sets. All I did was see the opposite of what you said was conservative.

Woah. Going to take me some time to figure out what you’re saying.

 

[Keithfansince5]

For instance is running the ball always conservative? It can be but not always. If a defense has 8 men on the line daring you to run and you run, then yeah it is conservative. However, what if you run on 3rd and 8 from a spread formation? That is not conservative and likely gives you a good chance of converting it because you may only have 5 or 6 in the box in that scenario. I always wanted to see Dallas run the ball out of obvious passing formations and to throw the ball out of obvious running formations. Just to keep things honest. Dallas rarely if ever does this. Also, being conservative isn't always bad. Sometimes being conservative wins you games. BUT, being conservative doesn't mean you have to be PREDICTABLE. Dallas under Garrett has always been predictable. Moore seemed to change that up until this game. Dallas became predictable again and thus easy to stop.

 

[droopdog7]

For instance is running the ball always conservative? It can be but not always. If a defense has 8 men on the line daring you to run and you run, then yeah it is conservative. However, what if you run on 3rd and 8 from a spread formation? That is not conservative and likely gives you a good chance of converting it because you may only have 5 or 6 in the box in that scenario. I always wanted to see Dallas run the ball out of obvious passing formations and to throw the ball out of obvious running formations. Just to keep things honest. Dallas rarely if ever does this. Also, being conservative isn't always bad. Sometimes being conservative wins you games. BUT, being conservative doesn't mean you have to be PREDICTABLE. Dallas under Garrett has always been predictable. Moore seemed to change that up until this game. Dallas became predictable again and thus easy to stop.

Obviously things can be nuanced and one has to watch the game to really know. And yeah, conservative isn’t alway bad. Hell, if you want to look at conservative then just look at what the saints were doing. They were much more conservative and they won.

As for being predictable, sure, that can be bad. And I agree, I would love to see a run out of the spread on occasion. But part of unpredictably is also about being lucky or “hot”. Run it on third and 8 and get stuffed and the fans will call you out for sure. Execution is still the most important part.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Obviously things can be nuanced and one has to watch the game to really know. And yeah, conservative isn’t alway bad. Hell, if you want to look at conservative then just look at what the saints were doing. They were much more conservative and they won.

As for being predictable, sure, that can be bad. And I agree, I would love to see a run out of the spread on occasion. But part of unpredictably is also about being lucky or “hot”. Run it on third and 8 and get stuffed and the fans will call you out for sure. Execution is still the most important part.

Fans call you out regardless. I wouldn't call plays based on what fans think. Throw a deep go route on 3rd and 1...Seen that nonsense allot. Rarely does it work. When it does, it is great. When it doesn't how dumb was that? lol.