CFZ How Would Jimmy Johnson Handle the Cowboys Salary Cap in the 90's?

[BAT]

Wow, not a good talent evaluator.

SMH

15 pro bowlers, 2 SB championships in FIVE years.

And his players and assistants were able to win a 3rd championship with basically Jimmy's players, Jimmy's assistants, offense, defense and ST two years later.

Troy, Emmitt, Irvin and many more of his former players all swear that if Jimmy does not leave, Cowboys win another 3 Superbowls. Minimum.

If only Jimmy was actually any good at talent evaluation what miracles he could have accomplished amirite?

Maybe a decades long historical SB run like that other poor talent evaluator Bill Belichick right?

I know you would love to distill the entire argument down to this and claim victory but it's not a rational argument. I forget the name of the fallacy but it is pretty basic. Occam's razor is a means not the end.

Am I arguing that Johnson didn't earn those championships in Dallas? Nah. I am just saying that he was not a good talent evaluator. Now we have this red herring because you see the denominator too and don't want to admit it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wow, not a good talent evaluator.

SMH

15 pro bowlers, 2 SB championships in FIVE years.

And his players and assistants were able to win a 3rd championship with basically Jimmy's players, Jimmy's assistants, offense, defense and ST two years later.

Troy, Emmitt, Irvin and many many of his former players all swear that if Jimmy does not leave, Cowboys win another 3 Superbowls. Minimum.

If only Jimmy was actually any good at talent evaluation what miracles he could have accomplished amirite?

Maybe a decades long historical SB run like that other poor talent evaluator Bill Belichick right?

You think BB drafts well?

Your hero worship and red herrings aside we both know your listing players he didn't draft in there like Irvin, Novacek, and Aikman. Probably taking credit for Smith again too.

Frankly going in circles is boring. Last word is yours.

 

[jrumann59]

Jimmy Johnson was more than just the Walker trade son. And the Walker trade was not luck but strategy. Jimmy made more trades in his 5 seasons than practically all the other NFL teams combined in same time period.

He averaged 10 trades, big or small, each season. Very much like Belichick now.

Jimmy helped create tools like the trade value chart because he was so aggressive moving up and down during the draft.

Jimmy also reintroduced and popularized the 4-3 but based on speed, converting LB to DE, DE to DT, CB to S and even LB to SS.

Jimmy revolutionized playing DL in waves and relentlessly attacking with fresh fast bodies and forcing takeaways.

But most importantly Jimmy created championship culture. He hated to lose and only wanted players who hated losing as much as he did.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/1...-Everson-Walls-can-play-better/2995627022800/

Yes but you have to be able to hit on talent. The percentage of hits he had on draft picks was extremely high. Draft picks are a gamble. I mean he was not as good drafting in Miami.

 

[jazzcat22]

LOL

No one said Jimmy was a god, stop with the ridiculous exaggeration because you can't support your stance.

I already supported my stance. So STOP with your ridiculous exaggerations.
And yes, they are acting like Jimmy is a god and jerry is a devil.

 

[stuckindc]

He did draft A

You think BB drafts well?

Your hero worship and red herrings aside we both know your listing players he didn't draft in there like Irvin, Novacek, and Aikman. Probably taking credit for Smith again too.

Frankly going in circles is boring. Last word is yours.

he drafted Aikman and signed Novacek as a FA. Landry drafted Irvin. Who BTW played and helped lead The U to a National Championship, that was recruited and coached Jimmy

 

[stuckindc]

One trait Johnson had, that he shares with the really good personnel people, was that quick trigger when he realized he'd made a mistake. He also wasn't into keeping players too long and I'd bet trading Marino was in his plan going to Miami.

Belichick has that as well and he's made a lot of poor draft picks but he doesn't dwell on them.

The biggest problem with the Cowboys is the standard Booger has established with certain players because of his ego. How many good NFL people would have put up with Gregory? It was bad enough with all of the pot stuff but he made some really bad plays in the playoff game and was laughing on the field. And the Joneses tried to keep him!

Something Kraft figured out with BB. And it’s worked out well

 

[CowboyFrog]

I mean no disrespect to Jimmy but didnt we see how he handled the cap while with the Dolphins? basically if he cant have the best players (like when at Miami U and with the Cowboys) he is gonna go fishing and work 1 day a week talking about how others should work the cap.

 

[KJJ]

The salary cap began in 1994, the Cowboys first season without Jimmy Johnson.

Let's pretend that Jerry Jones was realistic about his role and Jimmy's role in the development of that potential dynasty. Jerry relinquishes his position as GM and rightfully offers the position to Jimmy if he agrees to a ten year contract. Let's say Jimmy agrees and is now the GM of the Dallas Cowboys as the NFL enters a new era, the era of the Salary Cap.

This could be controversial. I think Jimmy would have been bottom line. I believe he would not use loyalty as a criteria. I think his logic would have resembled that of Bill Belicek. Contracts would not have been used to reward past achievement. The contract amounts would have mirrored the perceived contribution of the player to future success at market value..

I think Jimmy's handling of the salary cap would have been strictly business, no emotional element other then some regret for not being able to keep a player or two.

Here are some changes I believe Jimmy would have made from what actually happened.

Jimmy would have never signed Dieon Sanders - No way! Not only would Jimmy consider Deion's impact be unequal to his salary, he would not have willingly given up on so many players he could have kept over the years with that salary amount.

Jimmy would never have traded two #1 picks for Joey Galloway. - Jimmy would have acquired most of the talent he needed in the draft. He cherished his #1 picks He might have signed a veteran free agent or two but only if the value was excellent

Jimmy wouldn't have signed Emmitt Smith to a third contract. before the 1996 season - At the very least it he wouldn't have made the 7th year veteran the highest paid player in the NFL at the time and it certainly wouldn't have been an eight year contract. It's possible he may have franchised him for 1996, a year in which Emmitt slid from 4.7 yards a carry to 3.7 yards a carry. Emmitt's prior five season average for yards from scrimmage was 1949 yards and that decreased by almost 500 yards in 1996 to 1453 yards. I tyhink 1996 would have been his last season with the Cowboys.

Jimmy would have been prepared for Troy's retirement - Jimmy would have drafted another QB well ahead of Troy's retirement after 1999. In fact, I doubt Troy would have still been with the Cowboys after the 1998 season. Most likely, his contract would not have been extended at that time.

You’re wrong on everything except that Jimmy wouldn’t have traded two number ones for Joey Galloway because he would’ve never passed on Randy Moss two years earlier. Jimmy was no capologist. Everyone struggled with the cap when it first came in. By the way Emmitt Smith had two 1300+ yard seasons and a 1200 yard season during his third contract. He scored 24 rushing touchdowns in 1998 and 99. His third contract wasn’t a mistake.

 

[BAT]

Yes but you have to be able to hit on talent. The percentage of hits he had on draft picks was extremely high. Draft picks are a gamble. I mean he was not as good drafting in Miami.

Jimmy drafted 4 pro bowlers in 4 seasons.

If given the green light to trade Marino he could of had even more picks.

And Jimmy never had a losing season with Dolphins, even with an aged Dan Marino. And Jimmy set up Wannstedt for 4 winning seasons before his mediocre drafting ability caught up to him.

While Don Shula had multiple losing seasons with Dan Marino at the apex of his prime.

 

[plasticman]

You’re wrong on everything except that Jimmy wouldn’t have traded two number ones for Joey Galloway because he would’ve never passed on Randy Moss two years earlier. Jimmy was no capologist. Everyone struggled with the cap when it first came in. By the way Emmitt Smith had two 1300+ yard seasons and a 1200 yard season during his third contract. He scored 24 rushing touchdowns in 1998 and 99. His third contract wasn’t a mistake.

What did it take to be an effective capologist? You had to determine the value of the individual player to the team's success as well as his perceived value around the NFL and make the decision based soley on that and not what he had already accomplished. In other words, you had to make a cold hearted business decision void of sentiment. If that isn't Jimmy Johnson, then who is it?

Jimmy Johnson traded the quarterback that led his college team to the championship. He also traded the most popular active Cowboy player at that particular time.

As for Emmitt's performance after his 3rd contract, one that made him the highest paid RB at the time, was his performance during that contract worthy of the highest salary among RB's?

Yes, he had a pair of 1300 yard seasons during that time. So did a lot of other RB's. The majority were paid far less than Emmitt.

Eighteen RB's ran for 5000 yards during the length of Emmitt's contract from 1997 to 2003. Among those 18 RB's, Emmitt was ranked 6th in rushing, he was ranked 16th in receptions, and 14 of those RB had equal or more yards per carry. Emmitt's last six seasons averaged out fo 4 yards a carry. There were 7 RB's that averaged 4.5 yards or more. His average yards per reception was ranked last.

Don't get me wrong, the sum total of his career is the best in history, but he had already begun to decline when he signed that 3rd contract and Jimmy would have known that better than anyone else. He would not have signed Emmitt.

And Jimmy would have had the same type of analytical help that Jerry receives from his personnel department. It's just that Jimmy would have made far better decisions because Jimmy knew far more about football and Jimmy knew what he wanted out of his players.

 

[cowboyed]

I mean no disrespect to Jimmy but didnt we see how he handled the cap while with the Dolphins? basically if he cant have the best players (like when at Miami U and with the Cowboys) he is gonna go fishing and work 1 day a week talking about how others should work the cap.

Since Jimmy was also the Dolphins GM he was more involved in drafting and player acquistion than other head coaches. He was far from being a failure with the Dolphins but he certainly fell short of expectations. He walked away from head coaching and general managing after he ran his course with the Dolphins.

 

[KJJ]

What did it take to be an effective capologist? You had to determine the value of the individual player to the team's success as well as his perceived value around the NFL and make the decision based soley on that and not what he had already accomplished. In other words, you had to make a cold hearted business decision void of sentiment. If that isn't Jimmy Johnson, then who is it?

Jimmy Johnson traded the quarterback that led his college team to the championship. He also traded the most popular active Cowboy player at that particular time.

As for Emmitt's performance after his 3rd contract, one that made him the highest paid RB at the time, was his performance during that contract worthy of the highest salary among RB's?

Yes, he had a pair of 1300 yard seasons during that time. So did a lot of other RB's. The majority were paid far less than Emmitt.

Eighteen RB's ran for 5000 yards during the length of Emmitt's contract from 1997 to 2003. Among those 18 RB's, Emmitt was ranked 6th in rushing, he was ranked 16th in receptions, and 14 of those RB had equal or more yards per carry. Emmitt's last six seasons averaged out fo 4 yards a carry. There were 7 RB's that averaged 4.5 yards or more. His average yards per reception was ranked last.

Don't get me wrong, the sum total of his career is the best in history, but he had already begun to decline when he signed that 3rd contract and Jimmy would have known that better than anyone else. He would not have signed Emmitt.

And Jimmy would have had the same type of analytical help that Jerry receives from his personnel department. It's just that Jimmy would have made far better decisions because Jimmy knew far more about football and Jimmy knew what he wanted out of his players.

It’s a waste of time arguing about something that’s pure speculation. No one knows for sure what Jimmy would’ve done but he was all about talent evaluation and gaining talent. He traded Herschel Walker because he wasn’t producing and the Cowboys needed a lot of players and he got a number of draft picks for him. He wouldn’t have allowed Emmitt Smith to walk after his second contract because he was still producing at a very high level and the Cowboys offense revolved around him. The Cowboys were doing everything to try and stay in contention. There’s no question in my mind that Jimmy would’ve gone after Deion Sanders. It was all about taking him away from San Francisco and winning another Super Bowl and we accomplished that by signing him.

 

[Hardline]

Head coaches don't deal with salary cap issues. They only coach players that are on the roster.

 

[plasticman]

It’s a waste of time arguing about something that’s pure speculation. No one knows for sure what Jimmy would’ve done but he was all about talent evaluation and gaining talent. He traded Herschel Walker because he wasn’t producing and the Cowboys needed a lot of players and he got a number of draft picks for him. He wouldn’t have allowed Emmitt Smith to walk after his second contract because he was still producing at a very high level and the Cowboys offense revolved around him. The Cowboys were doing everything to try and stay in contention. There’s no question in my mind that Jimmy would’ve gone after Deion Sanders. It was all about taking him away from San Francisco and winning another Super Bowl and we accomplished that by signing him.

LOL, Herschel wasn't "producing"?

Walker produced over 2000 yards from scrimmage in 1988, the season before Jimmy took over. That's 1514 yards rushing and 505 yards receiving.

Arguing about something that is pure speculation is exactly what we do here.

There is no question in my mind that Jimmy wouldn't need Deion Sanders to win a Super Bowl in 1995. Not only that, but, despite having Dieon in 1994, the 49ers still would have lost to the Cowboys in the NFC championship game.

Deion may have helped the Cowboys win the 3rd Super Bowl with Switzer as the HC but his signing was also a main contributor to the Cowboys mass exit of talent and failure to do anything else after that.

 

[KJJ]

LOL, Herschel wasn't "producing"?

Walker produced over 2000 yards from scrimmage in 1988, the season before Jimmy took over. That's 1514 yards rushing and 505 yards receiving.

He was terrific, I’m talking about when Jerry and Jimmy took over in 89 The OL was crap and all Walker did was run into piles. In the 1989 opener against New Orleans he had 8 carries for only 10 yards. Two weeks later against Washington he had 11 carries for only 33 yards. The last game he played for the Cowboys in 89 against Green Bay he had 11 carries for only 44 yards. Herschel Walker was a north/south runner who had great speed but didn’t have much wiggle. He never had more than 85 yards in the 5 games he played for the Cowboys in 89 and he scored only two TDs. It was obvious to Jimmy and Jerry we weren’t going to win with him so it was better to trade him to a championship caliber team and get a bunch of draft picks.

 

[KJJ]

Arguing about something that is pure speculation is exactly what we do here.

Maybe you do but I only spend a small amount of time doing that here because it’s a waste of time. Speculating on something we’re never going to know is just killing time. I argue about things we’re eventually going to get answers to or that we already have answers to.

 

[plasticman]

He was terrific, I’m talking about when Jerry and Jimmy took over in 89 The OL was crap and all Walker did was run into piles. In the 1989 opener against New Orleans he had 8 carries for only 10 yards. Two weeks later against Washington he had 11 carries for only 33 yards. The last game he played for the Cowboys in 89 against Green Bay he had 11 carries for only 44 yards. Herschel Walker was a north/south runner who had great speed but didn’t have much wiggle. He never had more than 85 yards in the 5 games he played for the Cowboys in 89 and he scored only two TDs. It was obvious to Jimmy and Jerry we weren’t going to win with him so it was better to trade him to a championship caliber team and get a bunch of draft picks.

In 1989 Jimmy started two different rookie quarterbacks. What do you think opponent defenses are going to do in a situation where they are faced with a rookie quarterback and a prolific RB?

In the first five games of the 1989 season, when Herschel was still a Cowboy, the QB's completed less than half of their passes with 3 TD's and 11 INT. Do you think that scared defenses enough to focus on the- passing game?

During those five games Walker had 22 receptions with an 11.9 yard average. Unproductive?

Do you think the Vikings were willing to trade 3 #1 and #2 draft picks or whatever for an unproductive RB? Walker still had 500 yards from scrimmage in those 5 games. Walker was traded for one reason only and that was to accelerate the rebuild.

Three members of that 1989 offensive line started in SB 27. All of them ended up with Pro Bowl seasons, although Gogan made his as a Raider. That team was terrible because they traded their only Pro Bowler, there was absolutely nothing behind Walker at RB, their QB's were rookies and because they tanked. it certainly wasn't because Walker became unproductive overnight.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

I mean no disrespect to Jimmy but didnt we see how he handled the cap while with the Dolphins? basically if he cant have the best players (like when at Miami U and with the Cowboys) he is gonna go fishing and work 1 day a week talking about how others should work the cap.

Bill Belichick with the Browns.

Sometimes the situations aren't right. Jimmy wasn't allowed to get rid of a fading Marino. The defense was alright, IIRC, but the offense could pull its own weight.

 

[KJJ]

In 1989 Jimmy started two different rookie quarterbacks. What do you think opponent defenses are going to do in a situation where they are faced with a rookie quarterback and a prolific RB?

In the first five games of the 1989 season, when Herschel was still a Cowboy, the QB's completed less than half of their passes with 3 TD's and 11 INT. Do you think that scared defenses enough to focus on the- passing game?

During those five games Walker had 22 receptions with an 11.9 yard average. Unproductive?

Do you think the Vikings were willing to trade 3 #1 and #2 draft picks or whatever for an unproductive RB? Walker still had 500 yards from scrimmage in those 5 games. Walker was traded for one reason only and that was to accelerate the rebuild.

Three members of that 1989 offensive line started in SB 27. All of them ended up with Pro Bowl seasons, although Gogan made his as a Raider. That team was terrible because they traded their only Pro Bowler, there was absolutely nothing behind Walker at RB, their QB's were rookies and because they tanked. it certainly wasn't because Walker became unproductive overnight.

Walker wasn’t producing because the Cowboys were garbage and he was in decline. The 89 Cowboys were one of the top 10 worst teams in history. Troy Aikman wasn’t ready to start and the OL was trash. I told you why the Vikings traded for Walker because they thought they had a great team and he would produce with a better cast around him. They thought he would push them over the top. The best game he played for Minnesota was the very first game he played when he had 148 yards. He didn’t have another 100 yard game the rest of the season. In 1990 he didn’t have a single 100 yard game for the Vikings. He only had four 100 yard rushing performances for the Vikings. He was a flop in Minnesota causing that trade to blow up in their face. The Cowboys unloaded Walker just in the nick of time. Jimmy said in an interview years ago that Walker couldn’t make anyone miss. He was lowering his head running over defenders like Earl Campbell. Walker had great north/south speed but wasn’t shifty.

 

[gimmesix]

Jimmy was handicapped in Miami, first having to wait a season for Shula to retire and then unable to replace Marino when he wanted to.

Many seem to feel he was handicapped here by Jones. Truth is, he couldn't win without Jerry just like Jerry has shown he can't win without him. I don't know how long Jimmy's success would have continued here because of the cap. He was in the right situation at the right time and left before it got really wrong.