I love me some mock 3.0

[Silverstar]

51. Jason Williams- 6010 241 - Western Illinois...tons of upside and can start right away in any package IMO.

69. David Bruton - 6020 219 - Notre Dame...can play either safety position and return kicks too.

101. Johnny Knox - 5114 185 - Abilene Christian...a blazer with good hands and tremendous upside in the slot position.

117. Herman Johnson - 6072 356 - LSU...can handle either guard position and is NFL ready. Can replace Holland in a heartbeat and compete for LG in TC.

156. Andrew Gardner - 6-7 304 - Georgia Tech...best LT prospect still on the board. Should beat out Free IMO.

166. Dallas Reynolds - 6043 309 - BYU...a center propect, but versatile enough to play anywhere along the line. I think he can replace Proctor.

172. Everette Pedescleaux - 6053 305 - Northern Iowa...ideal size for a 3-4 DE. Solid depth and has enough upside to eventually become a starter.

197. Vaughn Martin - 6031 331 - Western Ontario...my favorite sleeper and could compete at NT this year. Ideal size and very strong, with the speed to get in the backfield too. Not just a run plugger.

208. Jason McCourty - 5103 193 - Rutgers...a blazer with a nice combination of size and speed. He might not last this long, but this is where I have him for now.

210. Brandon Long - 6023 254 - Michigan State...played DE and is very strong with good speed. A nice pickup here for depth and projects to OLB.

227. David Johnson - 6015 219 - Tulsa...tremendous senior year with over 4,000 yards passing and 46 TD's. I'd rather draft Johnson, than compete for his services as a UDFA. He should still be here.

 

[KingintheNorth]

:explode: :insane: :cry2: :thumbdo: :beer1: :tantrum: hno: :abuseme:
me in my living room watching this draft...

Jerry Jones would dislocate his shoulder if he reached that high for Jason Williams

 

[jday]

:explode: :insane: :cry2: :thumbdo: :beer1: :tantrum: hno: :abuseme:
me in my living room watching this draft...

Jerry Jones would dislocate his shoulder if he reached that high for Jason Williams

Me reading your response:

 

[DFWJC]

Except for Herman Johnson, I think you can get many of those guys later than you have them. I hear williams is moving up quickly, but 51 seems early. I like some of the others...just later.

 

[RamziD]

I like your first 5 picks, but I don't know a whole lot of information about the guys after that. I would rather have someone else besides Bruton, though. Delmas with #51 then Williams at #69 would be better IMO.

 

[Silverstar]

Except for Herman Johnson, I think you can get many of those guys later than you have them. I hear williams is moving up quickly, but 51 seems early. I like some of the others...just later.

I just don't like the "wait and hope he's still there" approach.

If the guy is a good fit for your team...get him!

The draft is a crapshoot anyway...sooner rather than later is my motto.

How many players have the Cowboys passed up over the years, that were there for the taking?

 

[DFWJC]

I just don't like the "wait and hope he's still there" approach.

If the guy is a good fit for your team...get him!

The draft is a crapshoot anyway...sooner rather than later is my motto.

How many players have the Cowboys passed up over the years, that were there for the taking?

Oh, I agree that you should take a player where you feel the value is. I just think you may be valuing many of those players higher than they deserve. That's all.

In other words, at those particular draft slots, I think better players can be had.

 

[Silverstar]

I like your first 5 picks, but I don't know a whole lot of information about the guys after that. I would rather have someone else besides Bruton, though. Delmas with #51 then Williams at #69 would be better IMO.

I don't want ANY safety at #51...it's just that simple. I seriously doubt Williams makes it to day 2. I don't care if we trade down a few spots...just get him on day 1.

 

[Silverstar]

Oh, I agree that you should take a player where you feel the value is. I just think you may be valuing many of those players higher than they deserve. That's all.

In other words, at those particular draft slots, I think better players can be had.

Yes, I did reach but...

Is Marcus Freeman really better than Jason Williams?

Is Rashad Johnson really better than David Bruton?

Is Derrick Williams really better than Johnny Knox?

Is Kraig Urbik really better than Herman Johnson?

Is Joel Bell really better than Andrew Gardner?


How can we be so sure?

It boils down to guys upside and where he fits in your system IMO.

 

[BAT]

Yes, I did reach but...

Is Marcus Freeman really better than Jason Williams?

Is Rashad Johnson really better than David Bruton?

Is Derrick Williams really better than Johnny Knox?

Is Kraig Urbik really better than Herman Johnson?

Is Joel Bell really better than Andrew Gardner?


How can we be so sure?

It boils down to guys upside and where he fits in your system IMO.

I like your reasoning, but IMO Rashad Johnson is really better than David Bruton. You can't time or measure the playmaking mentality/attitude/instinct. Johnson has "it", Bruton does not.

 

[Silverstar]

I like your reasoning, but IMO Rashad Johnson is really better than David Bruton. You can't time or measure the playmaking mentality/attitude/instinct. Johnson has "it", Bruton does not.

Johnson is a good tackler, has good instincts and reminds me of McBath, but he's no Ed Reed ( let's not fantasize) folks. He's a former walk on and I view him as an overachiever, that will probably get exposed in defenses other than cover 2...like McBath. His speed and agility suggests, that he'll have to play the SS position regardless. I simply want a bigger guy (215+) to play that position for us, as long as he has the speed to go with it. Useless to be a good tackler, when you're not quick enough to even grab him.

This brings me to propects like Vaughn and Bruton. I had Chip Vaughn at #69 before, but I think Bruton could be more versatile and slightly better against the pass. It was a tough call for me and still is. Funny thing is, Moore could still turn out to be the best safety in this class. Safeties are so hard to gauge now, so I'd rather go with success and great measurables, rather than success without those great measurables.

 

[BAT]

Johnson is a good tackler, has good instincts and reminds me of McBath, but he's no Ed Reed ( let's not fantasize) folks. He's a former walk on and I view him as an overachiever, that will probably get exposed in defenses other than cover 2...like McBath. His speed and agility suggests, that he'll have to play the SS position regardless. I simply want a bigger guy (215+) to play that position for us, as long as he has the speed to go with it. Useless to be a good tackler, when you're not quick enough to even grab him.

This brings me to propects like Vaughn and Bruton. I had Chip Vaughn at #69 before, but I think Bruton could be more versatile and slightly better against the pass. It was a tough call for me and still is. Funny thing is, Moore could still turn out to be the best safety in this class. Safeties are so hard to gauge now, so I'd rather go with success and great measurables, rather than success without those great measurables.

Sounds like you're describing Patrick Chung then, a big safety who runs in the 4.4's. Not to mention Chung has all your requirements:

Success + intangibles + measurables


Chung is also better in coverage than either Bruton or Vaughn.

 

[Silverstar]

Sounds like you're describing Patrick Chung then, a big safety who runs in the 4.4's. Not to mention Chung has all your requirements:

Success + intangibles + measurables


Chung is also better in coverage than either Bruton or Vaughn.

Vaughn maybe, but not Bruton. To save space, here's just the negative analysis for each player by Frank Cooney, The SportsXchange, NFLDraftScout.com.


Patrick Chung

Negatives: Questionable deep speed and is a bit shorter than scouts prefer because of their coverage duties against tight ends. … Physical player who can get a bit grabby while in coverage, leading to some holding calls … Attacks the line or underneath routes too quickly, leaving room for the deep ball behind him. … At his best facing the quarterback and running downhill toward the ball.

He starts off by pointing out his speed and size...not good. Basically, he's saying Chung is bad in deep coverage and has to grab or he'll get beat for TD's....sound familiar? Had a better junior year and his upside is limited IMO.


David Bruton

Negatives: Stiff in the hips. … Has trouble flipping open in transition. … Adequate closing on underneath patterns and staying with tight ends, but struggles manning up against quicker receivers. … Needs to improve reading quarterback so he can be involved in more plays. … Not physical enough against the run or in coverage. … Often loses hand battles and fights for the ball with receivers. … Doesn't explode into tackles, but is more of a catcher. … Running backs drive through his arm tackles. … Will whiff in the open field when ducking his head instead of seeing what he hits.

Makes Bruton sound like a terrible CB, with stiff hips and poor tackling technique. Struggles with the quicker receivers (who doesn't) and can't get enough INT's while fighting for the ball. Well, I'll take those PBU's over poor coverage and long TD's thank you very much. Team captain, who improved every year and hasn't reached his potential IMO.


Chip Vaughn

A two-year starter who earned All-ACC accolades, Vaughn has averaged 90 tackles and has developed a reputation for making big plays in crucial situations. Blessed with rare size and hitting ability, Vaughn is sure to intrigue teams looking for an enforcer and in-the-box presence at safety. Teams hoping to improve their pass coverage, however, might be forced to look elsewhere.

In the box type of SS, with good speed and sure tackling, but he's no ballhawk and probably has hands of stone. Played with Aaron Curry and Alphonso Smith, so that really helped his game too. Limited upside IMO.


You can see their overall analysis here... http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2009_FS

 

[DFWJC]

Yes, I did reach but...

Is Marcus Freeman really better than Jason Williams? no, both are reaches at 51, IMO

Is Rashad Johnson really better than David Bruton? Yes, imo

Is Derrick Williams really better than Johnny Knox? yes, imo

Is Kraig Urbik really better than Herman Johnson? I already said I like HJ

Is Joel Bell really better than Andrew Gardner? neither


How can we be so sure? Did not at all say I was sure...just giving my assessment and participating in the discussion.

It boils down to guys upside and where he fits in your system IMO.

---------------------

 

[Silverstar]

No problem DFWJC...

I expected to get that kind of feedback with this mock.

A reach for some, might be a target for others is what I'm saying.


For example, Williams is definitely my target in this draft.

 

[jterrell]

yikes, bro.

I'd have to say that is the worst one I've seen.

Not only is it full of pet pick types you chose them all at least a round too early.

This is a Larry Lacewell draft. Find 7 guys you like and pick them first chance you get regardless of where they are rated.

Every single pick until Herman is at least a full 30 picks too high. In another words we could trade off 51 and still get that same haul minus one of your 6th rounders.

 

[Silverstar]

yikes, bro.

I'd have to say that is the worst one I've seen.

Not only is it full of pet pick types you chose them all at least a round too early.

This is a Larry Lacewell draft. Find 7 guys you like and pick them first chance you get regardless of where they are rated.

Every single pick until Herman is at least a full 30 picks too high. In another words we could trade off 51 and still get that same haul minus one of your 6th rounders.

If it's any consolation, I have one more to go.