I really don't get the Norv Bashing

[Cajuncowboy]

At this point we don't have a HC so we have to go find one. Who's Available?

We could go the route of College coaches but the ones mentioned, Stoops, Myles etc, are all unknow quantities. The track record for College coaches lately is pretty sad. I don't think I would want to trust a franchise who is on the verge of being really good and a Super Bowl contender to someone with no NFL experience.

Then we could look at the assistants around the league. Ron Rivera, Mike Singletary, Rex Ryan et all, have no HC experience. Again, do we want to take the chance with someone without experience as a HC? I wouldn't mind it if we were in the position that New Orleans was in last year. A bad team with no where to go but up but not with this team.

Then we get to the guys with experience. Norv Turner, Dan Reeves, Wade Phillips. Reeves is out because Jerry only wants links to the past when he can make a buck during half time presentations so Reeves is out. That leaves us really with Turner and Phillips who have HC experience.

Of the two Norv looks like the logical choice because of two factors.

1) Norm is a guy who can take advantage of the offenive talent we have. He is a very good OC and QB coach. Norv has already said he doesn't want to coach forever and only wants to be around a few more years. Time to groom Garrett and help with the development of Romo.

2)His familiarity with Jerry and how he is. It is going to take someone who walks into this job with his eyes wide open to get anything done without jumping off a bridge when Jerry starts talking x's and o's.

Norv's failures in Washington and Oakland have been hashed and rehashed on this sight mre than the QC debates of yore. But to believe that those failures were totally Norv's fault means that one is not taking into consideration his boss' at the time. WHile Jerry may be a pain in the tail at times, he surely is not an nut job like Snyder or Davis.

I think having someone on staff who has the first hand knowledge of the Cowboys is a benefit.

Wade Phillips is a DC. I don't see him as being anything but that. He had a very supportive owner in Buffalo and did nothing with it. He had opportunities with an owner who would give him what he wanted and he failed.

This is not the case with Norv and his past stops.

With all this said, I would hope that when the dust settles on this that we can stop the Norv bashing and support the new coach (if indeed it is Norv) and move on.

BTW, if it is someone other than Norv, I will support them as well but it's not my first choice.

 

[smarta5150]

2 reasons I have noticed around here.

1. Past record.
2. Lack of control over players.

I for one am up for any coach honestly (as sad as that sounds) becuase we have been stuck for 11 years now - we finally have talent (my 1 thanks to Bill) and now we need some direction and motivation.

 

[Cochese]

italics stolen from extremeskins

Looks let at Norv's Skins:

Jack Kent Cooke:

94: Took a 4-12 team and went 3-13.
95: Improved to 6-10. Actually, if we won some close games may have went 9-7.
96: 9-7, after a 7-1 start.

John Kent Cooke- Took over after Jack died in the Spring of 97.:

97: 8-7-1
98: 6-10, after a 0-7 start.

Dan Synder- Took over in June 1999.:

99: 11-7, includes: 10-6 regular season and 1-1 playoff
00: 7-6, started 6-2 and fired with 3 games to go.

55-82-1

The one thing that always seemed to kill Norv's Commanders teams was division games.

In his seven seasons, he went 20-33-1 (.370) against the NFCE. Almost unbelievably, with Total Points For of 1158 (avg: 21.44), and Total Points Against of 1168 (avg: 21.63).

And that included going 5-8 against the woeful Arizona Cardinals.

TEN total points of differential, yet a .370 winning percentage. Game after game after game, his teams would come up this short against division rivals. It became his legacy.

 

[Haley94]

2 reasons I have noticed around here.

1. Past record.
2. Lack of control over players.

I for one am up for any coach honestly (as sad as that sounds) becuase we have been stuck for 11 years now - we finally have talent (my 1 thanks to Bill) and now we need some direction and motivation.

You can add lack of leadership. Norv has the personality of an accountant or engineer. Not CEO material. Great OC, but uninspiring as a HC.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

italics stolen from extremeskins

Looks let at Norv's Skins:

Jack Kent Cooke:

94: Took a 4-12 team and went 3-13.
95: Improved to 6-10. Actually, if we won some close games may have went 9-7.
96: 9-7, after a 7-1 start.

John Kent Cooke- Took over after Jack died in the Spring of 97.:

97: 8-7-1
98: 6-10, after a 0-7 start.

Dan Synder- Took over in June 1999.:

99: 11-7, includes: 10-6 regular season and 1-1 playoff
00: 7-6, started 6-2 and fired with 3 games to go.

55-82-1

The one thing that always seemed to kill Norv's Commanders teams was division games.

In his seven seasons, he went 20-33-1 (.370) against the NFCE. Almost unbelievably, with Total Points For of 1158 (avg: 21.44), and Total Points Against of 1168 (avg: 21.63).

And that included going 5-8 against the woeful Arizona Cardinals.

TEN total points of differential, yet a .370 winning percentage. Game after game after game, his teams would come up this short against division rivals. It became his legacy.

My only problem with all of this is that he did indeed inherit a terrible team. It takes at least 3 years to get a team turned around. When they were 7-1 in '96 they played a much softer schedule as it turned out in the end. All part of the process. But my concern is not with the overall record with them but with the inability to win close games. Play calling is a factor but still players have to execute.

I remember watching the Norv years in DC because I follow the ex cowboy coaches. He didn't honestly have a lot to work with.

All that said, I do belive that we are nowhere as bad a team as any of those skins teams were and certainly not even close to as bad as the Raiders were. I think things will be different.

 

[The Fonz]

My first choice will be Dan Reeves,but since that will never happen, I would go with Norv.It is a safe choice and might work well if he has a good DC.

 

[The Realist]

I don't see how Wade going 10-6, 11-5 and then 8-8 in Buffalo is failing.

I'd be willing to bet that if Norv had Wade's winning percentage 50% of the anti-Norv crowd would jump on board the Norv train.

Cover up the name on the resume and there is no way any Cowboy's fan would want this guy in Dallas.

Norv - 30 games below .500

Wannstedt - 4 games below

Campo - 18 games below

What gives?

 

[HappySpermWhale]

Norv Turner is not a good head coach and he is overrated as a coordinator as well. He would fail in Dallas just like he did washington and oakland.

We are wasting valuable time not pulling the trigger on Wade Phillips IMO.

 

[The Realist]

My only problem with all of this is that he did indeed inherit a terrible team. It takes at least 3 years to get a team turned around. When they were 7-1 in '96 they played a much softer schedule as it turned out in the end. All part of the process. But my concern is not with the overall record with them but with the inability to win close games. Play calling is a factor but still players have to execute.

I remember watching the Norv years in DC because I follow the ex cowboy coaches. He didn't honestly have a lot to work with.

All that said, I do belive that we are nowhere as bad a team as any of those skins teams were and certainly not even close to as bad as the Raiders were. I think things will be different.

Maybe, but someone forgot to tell Payton/Mangini.

They may have raised the bar and expectations of GM's.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't see how Wade going 10-6, 11-5 and then 8-8 in Buffalo is failing.

AS I said, it's not so much the record but what was done with the teams. I'm on record as having some problems with Norv's inability to win close games but I also think there is more blame to go around.

As for Phillips, I just don't think he did much as a HC or enough to keep his job at least.

 

[Haley94]

AS I said, it's not so much the record but what was done with the teams. I'm on record as having some problems with Norv's inability to win close games but I also think there is more blame to go around.

As for Phillips, I just don't think he did much as a HC or enough to keep his job at least.

He did more than Turner as a Head Coach. He didn't inherit a great team either.

The bottom line is he has a winning record as a HC, Norv does not. You can make all the excuses you want, but that's the bottom line.

 

[HappySpermWhale]

AS I said, it's not so much the record but what was done with the teams. I'm on record as having some problems with Norv's inability to win close games but I also think there is more blame to go around.

As for Phillips, I just don't think he did much as a HC or enough to keep his job at least.

He's made the playoffs 3 times in five years as a head coach. In fact I believe he has never even had a losing season.

The big knock against Phillips is that he was to 'player friendly' and never wore a headset on the sidelines, so to some that gave the impression he wasn't 'prepared'. But his diligence when it comes to the X's and O's says otherwise. Don't forget in 1999 the Bills came within a freak play of making it to the superbowl.

 

[The Realist]

He's made the playoffs 3 times in five years as a head coach. In fact I believe he has never even had a losing season.

The big knock against Phillips is that he was to 'player friendly' and never wore a headset on the sidelines, so to some that gave the impression he wasn't 'prepared'. But his diligence when it comes to the X's and O's says otherwise. Don't forget in 1999 the Bills came within a freak play of making it to the superbowl.

I believe Bruce Dehaven had a hand in that loss.

 

[Oh_Canada]

To compare Norv with Wade Phillips as a head coach is comical. Turner flat out stunk....don't give me this crap about bad situations. No situation is perfect and at least Snyder isn't afraid to spend money unlike some owners in the league. Washington is far from perfect, but there are far worse head coaching jobs in the NFL.

 

[silverbear]

To compare Norv with Wade Phillips as a head coach is comical. Turner flat out stunk....don't give me this crap about bad situations. No situation is perfect and at least Snyder isn't afraid to spend money unlike some owners in the league. Washington is far from perfect, but there are far worse head coaching jobs in the NFL.

And yet, NO head coach has been successful with the Skins since Danny Boy took over the franchise (actually, since a little before Danny Boy took over)...

Really, unless your name is Joe Gibbs, the only worse head coaching job in the NFL is the Faiders... anybody else will find Danny Boy there meddling...

 

[philo beddoe]

At this point we don't have a HC so we have to go find one. Who's Available?

We could go the route of College coaches but the ones mentioned, Stoops, Myles etc, are all unknow quantities. The track record for College coaches lately is pretty sad. I don't think I would want to trust a franchise who is on the verge of being really good and a Super Bowl contender to someone with no NFL experience.

Then we could look at the assistants around the league. Ron Rivera, Mike Singletary, Rex Ryan et all, have no HC experience. Again, do we want to take the chance with someone without experience as a HC? I wouldn't mind it if we were in the position that New Orleans was in last year. A bad team with no where to go but up but not with this team.

Then we get to the guys with experience. Norv Turner, Dan Reeves, Wade Phillips. Reeves is out because Jerry only wants links to the past when he can make a buck during half time presentations so Reeves is out. That leaves us really with Turner and Phillips who have HC experience.

Of the two Norv looks like the logical choice because of two factors.

1) Norm is a guy who can take advantage of the offenive talent we have. He is a very good OC and QB coach. Norv has already said he doesn't want to coach forever and only wants to be around a few more years. Time to groom Garrett and help with the development of Romo.

2)His familiarity with Jerry and how he is. It is going to take someone who walks into this job with his eyes wide open to get anything done without jumping off a bridge when Jerry starts talking x's and o's.

Norv's failures in Washington and Oakland have been hashed and rehashed on this sight mre than the QC debates of yore. But to believe that those failures were totally Norv's fault means that one is not taking into consideration his boss' at the time. WHile Jerry may be a pain in the tail at times, he surely is not an nut job like Snyder or Davis.

I think having someone on staff who has the first hand knowledge of the Cowboys is a benefit.

Wade Phillips is a DC. I don't see him as being anything but that. He had a very supportive owner in Buffalo and did nothing with it. He had opportunities with an owner who would give him what he wanted and he failed.

This is not the case with Norv and his past stops.

With all this said, I would hope that when the dust settles on this that we can stop the Norv bashing and support the new coach (if indeed it is Norv) and move on.

BTW, if it is someone other than Norv, I will support them as well but it's not my first choice.

Yes! Let's just SETTLE for old Norv. Why not? He's a nice guy. Can't be a head coach, but a great guy. Sheesh. LOL

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Yes! Let's just SETTLE for old Norv. Why not? He's a nice guy. Can't be a head coach, but a great guy. Sheesh. LOL

WHere did I say settle? You can't just go to the crapper and crap a HC. There are only so many candidates and you have to pick from what's available.
Man some peole. You can't have an opinion without someone getting their undies in a bunch.