I really wish Ware had skills in rushing

[Yakuza Rich]

FYI: The sky isn't falling. You are allowing emotion to take control instead of rational thought. It's ludicrous to say Ware is in danger of being ruined as a pass rusher.

Especially since here's how he's played in the last 4 games:

3 sacks
2 forced fumbles
2 passes defensed

Ware's main responsibility on the run defense is at right end. Dallas currently ranks 11th in run defense in that responsibility. But remember, that's counting a 40 yard TD by Portis when Greg Ellis was at the spot instead of Ware.



YAKUZA

 

[ravidubey]

FYI: The sky isn't falling. You are allowing emotion to take control instead of rational thought. It's ludicrous to say Ware is in danger of being ruined as a pass rusher.

I disagree. Ware was a DE from a small college and is still learning how to play in the NFL. He is most coachable right now, if taught improper technique the odds are he will not recover-- not only would he have to learn the right techniques he'd have to unlearn the bad stuff too.

Right now I see a player who's thinking too much and is rarely put in position to allow his instincts to take over. He's a natural pass rusher who's covering receivers and thus forced to guess what the offense will do on every play.

His coaches reportedly "don't trust" the front seven to twist and stunt since they make too many mistakes in basic sets, but they are not effective from a basic set because there's no scheming to take advantage of these guys' skills. That's a vicious Catch-22 to be caught in.

Granted he's improved against the run, but his role in the passing game is still a mystery-- is he a rusher or a cover guy, and if he's both then why is he left guessing which one on each play? If recognition is a problem then the coaches need to called designed plays for him, but again they refuse. This is a sign of bad coaching.

Bad coaching combined with a young team == bad results.

 

[Stautner]

Ware is not being coached properly and is in danger of being ruined as a pass rusher. The kid regresses to bull-rushing the moment he hits the field. The coaches either don't know how to coach him or he's dense, stubborn, or both.

It's once in a blue moon that we see him make plays like he did against Washington in Irving this year when he trailed Cooley in his pattern only to cut back sharply at the snap and nearly sack Brunell.

In that same game, we moved him around to the opposite side and he crushed an outmatched Betts on another rush. Where is this Demarcus Ware? I know he's often stuck back in coverage, but doesn't that strike you as stupid?

Last season Ware didn't even have a bull rush - he tried to use his speed EVERY pass rushing down and RT's just guided him 5 yards past the QB most of the time. Were the coaches ruining him then?

This year he has tried to add the bull rush, so he has 2 moves. The problem is that he doesn't have the fakes, the spins, the hooks the changes of speed ....... but to suggest that the Cowboy coaches don't want him to perfect some of these techniques is ludicrous.

Ware has TRIED spin moves - he just sucks at it. THAT's why he doesn't use more techniques - he simply doesn't do them well. He needs to work harder and learn - the Cowboy coaches aren't trying to keep him pinned down in passing situations.

By the way, Ware did move around some this last week, but expecting the same result every time that he got against Betts is unreasonable. First, Ware isn't that consistent, second, he won't always be teamed against a RB, and third no one can just repeat any success on the football field at will - it isn't just a matter of moving him to the same spot every time.

Maybe we can use Ware a little differently, but to suggest the coaches don't care about him learning all the pass rush techniques possible and using them when he is asked to rush the passer is bogus.

 

[Dayton Cowboy]

you mean that spin move thats helped Freeney tally a whopping 1.5 sacks this yr?

David

No David. I'm talking about the spin move that helped Freeney register 13,11,16 and 11 sacks in the previous four seasons.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I've had no problem with Ware this year, against the run or the passrush.

 

[Stautner]

I've had no problem with Ware this year, against the run or the passrush.

You may just be more realistic than some - you may not be expecting Ware to be the top level pass rusher many others do.

 

[Doomsday101]

You may just be more realistic than some - you may not be expecting Ware to be the top level pass rusher many others do.

It is still early in Ware career to think he can't be a top level pass rusher. Thus far he has 5 on the season with half a season to go he could easily be in double digits before season end and I think he is far from being a finished product. Right now I'm happy with the play of Ware but I do think he can get much better than he is right now

 

[InmanRoshi]

You may just be more realistic than some - you may not be expecting Ware to be the top level pass rusher many others do.

He's on pace to end up with around 9-12 sacks and 4-5 FF's ... pretty much what I expected of him this year. And a lot pass rushers get a huge chunk of their sacks against one weak offensive tackle where they get 3 sacks in a game (see Ware's Carolina game last year), whereas Ware has been pretty consistant game in and game out.

 

[CATCH17]

I think you guys need to watch him more.

Hes almost on the QB on every play.

He gets held a TON, and he always lines up on the teams best pass blocker.

All I heard when he first got here was how he was doing things that vets didn't do.

Ware is a great player and I think more of you are paying attention to him on NFL.com then the actual game.

 

[Stautner]

He's on pace to end up with around 9-12 sacks and 4-5 FF's ... pretty much what I expected of him this year. And a lot pass rushers get a huge chunk of their sacks against one weak offensive tackle where they get 3 sacks in a game (see Ware's Carolina game last year), whereas Ware has been pretty consistant game in and game out.

The sack totals are fine, but I don't think anyone can say he is the sack machine some thought. And I don't think he is a consistent presence with his pressure - there have been several games this year where the QB got very little pressure, and despite Ware's sack of Lienart, he really didn't prove to be a consistent thorn in his side Sunday.

But I think that's just what Ware is at this point. He isn't going to bring enough consistent pressure to dramatically affect opposing QB's, but on sheer phycial talent alone he is going to break free ocassionally and get a sack.

 

[smarta5150]

I believe that Ware is VERY underrated on these boards.

I think that because his sack numbers are not eye-popping, he tends to catch a lot of flack up in here.

From what I see, he is constantly in the pocket causing pressure (often he is just a step late, or sends the QB into the arms of another pass-rusher). His run support has been extremely stout, and his coverage skills have gotten consistently better.

It seems that his primary weakness is that he tends to overpursue, which is common for inexperienced players.

On the flip side though, he is amazing to watch when he runs down plays, closing in on the ball-carrier with lightning speed.

While I think he will eventually develop into a dominant player, his growth will definitely be stunted by Ellis's injury. He will see many more chips and double-teams.

I think the greatest limitation on Ware's performance, however, is that he adheres to the current defensive scheme pretty closely. The reason he's just a step behind most plays is that he's thinking about his assignments too much.

Parcells said that it often drove him crazy that LT would simply go ball$-to-the-wall after the QB when that was not his assignment on the play. Often times, LT would be forgiven because of the results.

Our players have been so programmed to play the percentages, and avoid mistakes that I believe it has blunted their natural aggressive play-making instincts.

Perhaps once the coaching staff is more comfortable with the talent-level on defense, we'll see the boys being permitted to pin their ears back more often and "just go out there like a pack of rabid dogs, and have some fun."

Just a thought. I have many.

I cant agree with you more.

Ware is constantly pressuring the QB. He is on pace for 8-10 sacks and does wonders for our run defense.

Our team isnt playing to get those sacks ( I dont know why tho ). As you can tell and has been mentioned, we dont stunt or twist or send tricky blitz schems at opposing QBs. We are a team that simply tries to PRESSURE the QB.

So, in Wares defense, he is doing what he is being asked to do. On another team they might tell him to go get the QB every play (like Merriman). BP thinks Ware is better than that and would be a WASTE to just send him to the QB constantly. Ware is being asked to do 3 things:

1. Pressure the QB.
2. Stop the run.
3. Cover.

Merriman is being used as a head hunter and ONLY going for the QB. Come on everyone, this game isnt just about racking up sacks and getting your stats up. Ware is being a team player by helping us out in MANY area. I would much rather have a multi-talented player than a 1 sided guy.

 

[Doomsday101]

The sack totals are fine, but I don't think anyone can say he is the sack machine some thought. And I don't think he is a consistent presence with his pressure - there have been several games this year where the QB got very little pressure, and despite Ware's sack of Lienart, he really didn't prove to be a consistent thorn in his side Sunday.

But I think that's just what Ware is at this point. He isn't going to bring enough consistent pressure to dramatically affect opposing QB's, but on sheer phycial talent alone he is going to break free ocassionally and get a sack.

I think it is a bit early in Ware career to say what he will do or will not do. Ware has been pretty consistant at bringing pressure. We are talking about a kid from a small school who is learning a new position which consist of dropping into coverage as well as rushing the passer. I think Ware is far from being the player he will become.

 

[Stautner]

I think some are misinterpereting Ware's bullrush as pressure.

While he is pushing the LT toward the QB, it isn't enough to collapse the pocket, and considering that the 300+ pound LT stays directly between the QB and Ware - so much so that Ware probably can't even be seen by the QB much of the time - the QB isn't exactly getting overly anxious by Ware's presence.

That's the essence of much of our "pressure" from all sources - we push people back to a point but run into a wall and the QB has time to throw without too much worry.

 

[smarta5150]

I think some are misinterpereting Ware's bullrush as pressure.

While he is pushing the LT toward the QB, it isn't enough to collapse the pocket, and considering that the 300+ pound LT stays directly between the QB and Ware - so much so that Ware probably can't even be seen by the QB much of the time - the QB isn't exactly getting overly anxious by Ware's presence.

That's the essence of much of our "pressure" from all sources - we push people back to a point but run into a wall and the QB has time to throw without too much worry.

You need to watch more of the Dallas games and focus on Ware. These Qbs are VERY aware of Ware coming. They release the ball feeling him coming, just look at the tape.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think some are misinterpereting Ware's bullrush as pressure.

While he is pushing the LT toward the QB, it isn't enough to collapse the pocket, and considering that the 300+ pound LT stays directly between the QB and Ware - so much so that Ware probably can't even be seen by the QB much of the time - the QB isn't exactly getting overly anxious by Ware's presence.

That's the essence of much of our "pressure" from all sources - we push people back to a point but run into a wall and the QB has time to throw without too much worry.

I have seen Ware chase QB's quite a bit forcing them out of the pocket as well as forcing them to get rid of the ball in a hurry and that is considered pressure and Ware has been pretty darn good at it. He is not getting the sacks many would like to see but he is bringing pressure

 

[stealth]

he has used a spin move at least twice this season, I remember thinking wow where did that come from. Lay off the guy he is young and learning. and is kill against the run. And oh ya he isn't on roids.

 

[Stautner]

I have seen Ware chase QB's quite a bit forcing them out of the pocket as well as forcing them to get rid of the ball in a hurry and that is considered pressure and Ware has been pretty darn good at it. He is not getting the sacks many would like to see but he is bringing pressure

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't consistent enough to have a big impact.

He did chase Lienart some Sunday, but I think that had much more to do with the pressure Ellis brought from the other side, forcing Lienart to roll to his left, as well as Lienart's natural tendency as a lefty to roll that way anyway.

he has used a spin move at least twice this season, I remember thinking wow where did that come from. Lay off the guy he is young and learning. and is kill against the run. And oh ya he isn't on roids.

I agree completely. I'm not saying Ware is worthless or wont improve with time, I'm just saying that people are both expecting and seeing more than is reasonable and accurate.

 

[smarta5150]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't consistent enough to have a big impact.

He did chase Lienart some Sunday, but I think that had much more to do with the pressure Ellis brought from the other side, forcing Lienart to roll to his left, as well as Lienart's natural tendency as a lefty to roll that way anyway.



I agree completely. I'm not saying Ware is worthless or wont improve with time, I'm just saying that people are both expecting and seeing more than is reasonable and accurate.

Damn BP making that early comparisons to #56 messed with people's heads. Relax, he IS having an impact right now and will only get better. Realx.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't consistent enough to have a big impact.

He did chase Lienart some Sunday, but I think that had much more to do with the pressure Ellis brought from the other side, forcing Lienart to roll to his left, as well as Lienart's natural tendency as a lefty to roll that way anyway.



I agree completely. I'm not saying Ware is worthless or wont improve with time, I'm just saying that people are both expecting and seeing more than is reasonable and accurate.

Well as I said I think Ware is far from a finished product and does have the ability to be a dominate pressure player in this league. Evidently we are not seeing the same because Ware is bringing pressure when Dallas sends him

 

[Stautner]

Damn BP making that early comparisons to #56 messed with people's heads. Relax, he IS having an impact right now and will only get better. Realx.

I didn't say he isn't having an impact at all, just not the kind of big impact as a pass rusher that many expect.

I agree, he likely will get better. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying - I'm not bashing Ware, I'm just saying that too many see him through rose colored glasses rather than taking him for what he is.