I think the defense will be better than expected

[xwalker]

This should be fun for the snark patrol (also known as trolls) to criticize:

Looking at individual positions, I just don't see the doom and gloom. Getting both McClains on the field would be a big help. The Cowboys defense appears to have players with legit NFL talent at most positions.

It will be a struggle without Scandrick for 4 games, but after that I think they can be a decent defense if no more big injuries occur. Getting Lawrence back will be a big boost also. They could even end up with Spencer and/or Josh Brent at some point in the season.

DE Selvie, Crawford and Mincey seem like legit NFL players. They need a Nickel rusher while Lawrence it out (maybe Wilber or Boatright).

DT3t Melton should be good.

DT1t This is is biggest concern for me. T. McClain needs to get healthy.

DT3t-2 The DT1t is out in the Nickel which was 61% of the snaps last season. Crawford, Mincey and McClain are options.

MLB Durant is reported to be performing really well. If R. McClain plays it gives them options to use Durant elsewhere.

WLB If Carter struggles, Durant could replace him if McClain is the MLB.

SLB Wilber or Holloman (not a super critical position in this defense)

Nickel LBs Holloman and Durant or Carter (Holloman has shown good coverage ability)

CB1 Carr has been better than he gets credit for, but he has to have reasonable Safety play and some pass rush.

CB2 Claiborne with Scandrick out for 4 weeks.

CB3 This will be a problem until Scandrick returns.

Safety1 Church is solid.

Safety2 Wilcox has the potential to be good.

Final thought: They must find somebody better than Nick Hayden as the 2nd DT.

 

[reddyuta]

Honest question- is there a team out there which has less proven talent on defense than ours?.

 

[Seven]

This should be fun for the snark patrol (also known as trolls) to criticize:

Lost my interest right about here.

Not a graceful way to start a thread, IMO.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

They'll stink.

 

[Idgit]

Honest question- is there a team out there which has less proven talent on defense than ours?.

Don't think so. That's not necessarily the same thing as being the worst overall, though. We've got a ton of question marks, but some of them do have some upside.

Re: the OP, I'd be concerned about our down linemen not getting time to play together in camp. I don't love our SAM options, but I agree that that's not a crucial position. I don't love what we've seen out of our nickel LBs yet (mostly because I had high hopes for Holloman and he's been pretty quiet in camp and then had a poor outing in SD). S has potential, but that's not the same thing as being good yet.

Mostly, though, I just want to see the fronts handling their run fits and our coverage guys where they're supposed to be. My biggest hope from a technician like Marinelli at coach is that we'd have a young, healthy-ish roster and that whatever level of talent we fielded would be where they're supposed to be. If we start seeing that as the preseason progresses, I'm ok with what we trot out. I do expect us to get better with experience, too, and understand that we just don't have enough talent to actually be good. Being better than expected, though, isn't all that much of a reach, given how low expectations understandably are.

 

[jazzcat22]

Honest question- is there a team out there which has less proven talent on defense than ours?.

With all the changes and turnover, how does anyone konw we are less talented now? It can be looked at that way also.

 

[Idgit]

Lost my interest right about here.

Not a graceful way to start a thread, IMO.

It's tough, because, while I agree it's not graceful, it's understandable that he'd want a prophylactic to keep the topic on football and not on posts that cynically refuse to actually discuss the topic. It's no fun to put a thought-out argument out there and to have the thread derailed immediately, which we've all seen all to often.

 

[BlindFaith]

Honest question- is there a team out there which has less proven talent on defense than ours?.

I'd say no. When possibly three of your starting four (Selvie, Hayden, Mincey) are cast off spares that wouldn't start for any other team in the league? Melton coming off injury. Crawford who has potential, coming off injury. Lawerence a rookie, coming off injury. Spencer, older guy coming off injury.

Wilber, McClain, Carter. Could be decent IF McClain wants to play for an entire season, IF Carter plays to his potential.

Secondary? Carr, overpaid and has yet to practice. Scandrick out. Claiborne, can he stay healthy? Wilcox is totally unproven and couldn't beat out Heath last year and everyone wants Heath cut. Church is serviceable.

Who on this list would even start anywhere else? Maybe Melton, but he signed a very friendly one year deal with us, so he must not of had many suitors. Carr? Probably, but not at the price we are paying him.

So we have maybe two guys on our entire defense that would start for any other team and we are trying to convince ourselves we MAY have a serviceable defense? Way too many ifs and buts. I think realistically we are looking at a bottom 5 defense with the potential for slightly below average. Sigh

 

[Bullflop]

I think there's always a chance for everything to fall into place as we'd hope but there are far more questions than answers at this point in time. I'd be delighted to believe we're destined to be that fortunate but it'll be tough sledding to make all that materialize. If, by some chance we're that fortunate, I'll be giddy with excitement. In the present, I'll just keep my expectations at arm's length.

 

[Hoofbite]

There's trolls on this board? Sounds like somebody needs to put in a call to the resident crime fighter. Troll Slayer, hop to it!

 

[Idgit]

I'd say no. When possibly three of your starting four (Selvie, Hayden, Mincey) are cast off spares that wouldn't start for any other team in the league? Melton coming off injury. Crawford who has potential, coming off injury. Lawerence a rookie, coming off injury. Spencer, older guy coming off injury...

Can't say I agree with the bottom of your post, but thanks for depressing me with this part.

 

[xwalker]

Don't think so. That's not necessarily the same thing as being the worst overall, though. We've got a ton of question marks, but some of them do have some upside.

Re: the OP, I'd be concerned about our down linemen not getting time to play together in camp. I don't love our SAM options, but I agree that that's not a crucial position. I don't love what we've seen out of our nickel LBs yet (mostly because I had high hopes for Holloman and he's been pretty quiet in camp and then had a poor outing in SD). S has potential, but that's not the same thing as being good yet.

Mostly, though, I just want to see the fronts handling their run fits and our coverage guys where they're supposed to be. My biggest hope from a technician like Marinelli at coach is that we'd have a young, healthy-ish roster and that whatever level of talent we fielded would be where they're supposed to be. If we start seeing that as the preseason progresses, I'm ok with what we trot out. I do expect us to get better with experience, too, and understand that we just don't have enough talent to actually be good. Being better than expected, though, isn't all that much of a reach, given how low expectations understandably are.

I didn't get anything about the overall defense from the SD game. They had Safety Jeff Heath playing as the slot CB with the 1st team defense. The CB #41 had not even practiced with the team.

All I got out of that game is that Nick Hayden has not improved from last season.

 

[CCBoy]

This defense is not void of veterans and with experience:

Ronaldo McClain
Terrell McClain
George Selvie
Jeremy Mincey
Henry Melton
Anthony Spencer
Barry Church
Orlando Scandrick
Brandon Carr
Lance Dunbar
Bruce Carter
Morris Claiborne

As well as journeymen:

Tyrone Crawford
Jakar Hamilton
Nick Hayden
Devonte Holloman
Sterling Moore


That at the least is a functional group with experience. There are additionally some defensive tackles, linebackers, and secondary members that are rookies, but are talented enough to foresee some rotational advantages from that group as well.

And as eluded to previous to this, if McClain becomes a leader in the defensive squad, then the role of Carter immediately improves as well. Maturity on the outside, will improve with him.

 

[Tabascocat]

We will have a pretty good idea for what's in store for us after the 3rd pre-season game and I will wait to troll then

 

[coach steele]

Our offense will keep us in games. Our defense will lose it for us. I am predicting another 8-8 season. This all changes if Melton steps in and shows us 2012 production, Selvie has another 7 sack season, Spencer comes back by the second game of the season and shows us 2012 production, our 1 technique clogs up the middle (be it McClain or Brent), Rolando McClain plays like a top 10 pick, Claiborn plays like a top 10 pick, and Carr plays like a 50 million dollar corner.

 

[Bluestang]

Here is some research:

Selvie's best year in college was in 2007. 14.5 sacks then he went back to pedestrian numbers the next two years.

In the NFL he had one good year with us but also played around Hatcher and Ware.

Mincey's college and pro career are worse than Selvie's. And Selvie is nothing to be proud of.

Melton is coming off a major injury and isn't the same guy he was in 2012. He could be, but even the camp reports suggest that he isn't the same guy right now.

Crawford is the only legit NFL talent with two good years at Boise with pass rushing ability. However, he is also coming off a major injury that usually takes another year to fully regain what was lost.

Hayden is here because the front office can't find anyone better than him. And he is only here because of Josh Brent.

DeMarcus Lawrence is going to be slowed down by the foot injury. This year will be a wash for him and don't expect him to be a sack monster when comes back.

McClain college and pro career are abysmal too. Nothing really worth mentioning.

These are the guys that are expected to be major contributors but they all have some sort of negative factor in their equation.

It's going to take a Christmas miracle for this group to be good and that is no exaggeration.

 

[jazzcat22]

This defense is not void of veterans and with experience:

Ronaldo McClain
Terrell McClain
George Selvie
Jeremy Mincey
Henry Melton
Anthony Spencer
Barry Church
Orlando Scandrick
Brandon Carr
Lance Dunbar
Bruce Carter
Morris Claiborne

As well as journeymen:

Tyrone Crawford
Jakar Hamilton
Nick Hayden
Devonte Holloman
Sterling Moore


That at the least is a functional group with experience. There are additionally some defensive tackles, linebackers, and secondary members that are rookies, but are talented enough to foresee some rotational advantages from that group as well.

Isn't it funny how we can bring in players, some that are / were very good with previous teams, some were ok, but better than what we had last year. And a change of scenery may be all that is needed.
But they are here and some fans see it as they suck, they are scrubs, or whatever.
But put that player or one of equal staus on any other team, then these same fans will say that team makes all the right move, looked who they signed, why can't out FO do that.
You know, the double standard crap.

Oh, well, we shall see soon, and I think we will like what we see.

 

[Idgit]

I didn't get anything about the overall defense from the SD game. They had Safety Jeff Heath playing as the slot CB with the 1st team defense. The CB #41 had not even practiced with the team.

All I got out of that game is that Nick Hayden has not improved from last season.

I know. Still, you'd have liked to see Holloman making some plays, right? He's a guy I had thought might come in and have an outstanding camp from the get-go, but, by the sounds of things early on, he's having a sophomore slump right now.

 

[CrownCowboy]

This should be fun for the snark patrol (also known as trolls) to criticize:

Looking at individual positions, I just don't see the doom and gloom. Getting both McClains on the field would be a big help. The Cowboys defense appears to have players with legit NFL talent at most positions.

It will be a struggle without Scandrick for 4 games, but after that I think they can be a decent defense if no more big injuries occur. Getting Lawrence back will be a big boost also. They could even end up with Spencer and/or Josh Brent at some point in the season.

DE Selvie, Crawford and Mincey seem like legit NFL players. They need a Nickel rusher while Lawrence it out (maybe Wilber or Boatright).

DT3t Melton should be good.

DT1t This is is biggest concern for me. T. McClain needs to get healthy.

DT3t-2 The DT1t is out in the Nickel which was 61% of the snaps last season. Crawford, Mincey and McClain are options.

MLB Durant is reported to be performing really well. If R. McClain plays it gives them options to use Durant elsewhere.

WLB If Carter struggles, Durant could replace him if McClain is the MLB.

SLB Wilber or Holloman (not a super critical position in this defense)

Nickel LBs Holloman and Durant or Carter (Holloman has shown good coverage ability)

CB1 Carr has been better than he gets credit for, but he has to have reasonable Safety play and some pass rush.

CB2 Claiborne with Scandrick out for 4 weeks.

CB3 This will be a problem until Scandrick returns.

Safety1 Church is solid.

Safety2 Wilcox has the potential to be good.

Final thought: They must find somebody better than Nick Hayden as the 2nd DT.

You can put as much lipstick as you want on this pig, buddy.

I think you need to brace yourself for what everybody else has already come to terms with.

This defense is bad...........and that might even be optimistic.

 

[Setackin]

NO!!!! This defense has gotten way worse... we have lost 4-5 of the best players from last yr! And have replaced them with unproven vets, injured vets, and rookies. The 2ndary is iffy at BEST! (I do have hopes the will suprise) The front 7 is a compilation of other teams rejects!

I'm offended ppl would even argue this defense will be able to improve much. Lol