I threw up watching the pre-draft discussion video from CBS "The Blitz"

igtmfo

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Watching the video of the room of scouts plus Jerry plus Jason on the "Blitz" CBS tv show last night ... taped in the last few weeks.

Jason and Jerry were at the main table and had the floor of the discussion. Hey I imagine Wade was in the same spot last season. (And worse, Wade apparently had the Jason Williams "ace" and loved him.)

The whole Cowboys staff must cowtow to coaches plus Jerry in these meetings where it mostly Jerry talking BS (as he does on the video). There are 30 people in the room. Have you heard decision by committee amounts to championships? It looks by the vid that the scouts, including Ciskowski are afraid be passionate - yea or nay about any player ..

On this video, hearing Jerry espouse his draft philosophy for the (smarter? scouts) for a particular player, just dumb homilies. ("50 percent of picks don't make it" Jerry says), stupid,

Jerry has had no clue once the Schramm-era scouts were fired by Jerry himself way back in 1993. Hearing Jason's homilies on this video "I like him!". By all accounts, Jason was the lynchpin in he Roy Williams trade, Felix Jones was his favorite etc. ... God knows what Jason thinks about OL .. His dad did nothing as far as scouting here, very little anyway.

Let me tell Cowboys fans: The 1965-1993 era ruled. The same scouts mostly over the years. Fantastic results. Except that after the first SB win in Jan 1993, Jerry fired the wonderful draft/front office that he had inherited from the Schramm era to save money: Mansberger, Ackles, Wooten etc. These were the guys that had got us to the playoffs nearly every year for 20 years. Enter Larry Lacewell and an era of poor scouting .... (Jim Garrett came in in 1987 I think, but stuck around for way too long ...)

Don't believe me, but read the following from the savant Joel Buschbaum. And Jason Garrett, read the following and learn:

"'Don't forget the scouts"

Owners should think twice about giving head coaches too much power
By Joel Buchsbaum, Pro Football Weekly, Aug. 30, 2002

The league is undergoing a trend now where many owners stop appreciating the personnel departments and make the coaches the superstars.

This originally started in Dallas with Jimmy Johnson, where Johnson got the reputation as a brilliant personnel man.

In part, he deserved those accolades, but Dallas also had a brilliant scouting staff led by Dick Mansperger, with people such as Jeff Smith and Bob Ackles assisting.

The reason the Cowboys dropped off - although it took a few years - was because they did a poor job of drafting and trading after they dismantled key portions of the scouting staff.

Mansperger was one of the best and most unheralded scouting directors in the NFL.

Smith was also a yeoman's scout, and Ackles was a brilliant organizer, and front-office man, who played a key role in the Herschel Walker steal.

Without all these men, Cowboys president Jerry Jones and his son tried to do too many things themselves and as a result, the Cowboys had some disastrous trades, in combination with some poor drafts.

At times, they traded up for players that they could've gotten a round later and they were also picking up players that no one else wanted and paying exorbitant prices for players.

To give you an example of the contrast, in 1989, when Johnson took over shortly before the draft and relied heavily on the material Mansperger and his scouts supplied, the Cowboys drafted QB Troy Aikman in the first round, FB Daryl Johnston in the second round, C Mark Stepnoski in the third round and DE Tony Tolbert in the fourth round.

They also would've taken DL Marvin Washington in the fifth round, except Johnson overruled and took a player from Florida, DL Jeff Roth, whom he had faced when he coached Miami.

One year later, Dallas got RB Emmitt Smith, WR Alexander Wright, DB Kenny Gant and DT Jimmie Jones.

The following years, in 1991 and '92, they got DT Russell Maryland, WR Alvin Harper, LB Dixon Edwards, LB Godfrey Myles, OT Erik Williams, DT Leon Lett, CB Larry Brown, CB Kevin Smith, LB Robert Jones, WR Jimmy Smith and S Darren Woodson.

By 1993, a good portion of the scouting staff had been dismantled.

In '94, with Jones running the draft, Dallas traded up in the first round to select Arizona State DE Shante Carver, who most teams regarded as a late second-round pick.

In '95, Jones traded his first-round pick for two second-round picks, then wound up taking RB Sherman Williams, TE Kendell Watkins and OG Shane Hannah in the second round.

A year later, once again, he traded out of the first round, and the only players he had to show out of that draft were DE Kavika Pittman and LB Randall Godfrey.

In '97, he traded up for TE David LaFleur. ...

----
 
I think that felix could be good if he can stay healthy. He is just explosive and he broke more tackles than marion barber last season.

Felix needs to get stretched out by some personally it will help his career. We used marion barber way too much last year he sucked.
 
igtmfo;3920805 said:
Without all these men, Cowboys president Jerry Jones and his son tried to do too many things themselves and as a result, the Cowboys had some disastrous trades, in combination with some poor drafts.

Still happens to this day, and this is the exact problem with this organization.
 
Nice post, igt... Even if a little disjointed. :)

Can you expand a little on what they were saying, especially Jerry? This was all discussion for this year, right?

And it's good to get some confirmation on Garrett and Roy Williams, because Newy Scruggs insisted even back then that it was he who pushed Jerry to finally make that trade. Yes, Jerry had liked him for years, but Scruggs said RJ told Jerry he needed Roy to free up T.O.

I know Chief has talked to Ciskowski, and has said that once he compiles the information, it's up to Jerry to make the call, and it doesn't always fit the board. Broaddus said something similar just the other day about the scouts grades usually being accurate but that sometimes Jerry gets influenced by a persuasive college administrator or some other outside agent to pick a different player.

Also... This makes me miss theebs. It's not draft season without him getting a screen cap of this show. Anyone know where he is? I PMd him and never heard anything back. Hope he's okay.

Anyway, thanks for the post.
 
OK for Felix. As has been said, he's a Jerry/Jason pick.

Everybody knows. A good handful of awesome plays. As I remember, statistically he's the worst overall production from the RBs taken in the first two rounds from that draft. Probably not by average but kinda by yardage. Felix has always had the gaudy averages. But he's always had something wrong: he's injured, too heavy, disappears. Felix picked real high, and other the RBs in that draft have been close by production, close or better to Felix' contribution. Sorry been drinking tonight or I would try harder to provide stats ...

Felix, are you going to lose weight, or gain it, in the offseason? So stupid.

IMHO Felix is kinda like Dez, lotsa talent, inconsistent, not the best "makeup", if you know what I mean. So it is, and so it will always be.
 
I disagree with you 100% on both Felix and Dez.

Felix has been money when used properly, yet for some reason has been behind Marion Barber his entire career. So it's surprising to hear that he is a Garrett favorite.

Dez Bryant has just been money.
 
Galian Beast;3920832 said:
I disagree with you 100% on both Felix and Dez.

Felix has been money when used properly, yet for some reason has been behind Marion Barber his entire career. So it's surprising to hear that he is a Garrett favorite.

Dez Bryant has just been money.
Same here.
 
So the new Salary Cap and Jerry not having the $$ to pay for the better players and higher draft picks? Over paying the former Super Stars had nothing to do with it? Why don't you take this into your analysis? For at least 5-8 years there Jerry just could not spend to get top players. Yes, it was Jerry's fault for not understanding the coming Cap, but so did about 80%+ of the NFL teams. No one had the number of Super Stars that Dallas had and tried to keep happy.
You can't blame the scouting department when you can't afford the product.
 
Chocolate Lab;3920823 said:
Nice post, igt... Even if a little disjointed. :)

Can you expand a little on what they were saying, especially Jerry? This was all discussion for this year, right?

And it's good to get some confirmation on Garrett and Roy Williams, because Newy Scruggs insisted even back then that it was he who pushed Jerry to finally make that trade. Yes, Jerry had liked him for years, but Scruggs said RJ told Jerry he needed Roy to free up T.O.

I know Chief has talked to Ciskowski, and has said that once he compiles the information, it's up to Jerry to make the call, and it doesn't always fit the board. Broaddus said something similar just the other day about the scouts grades usually being accurate but that sometimes Jerry gets influenced by a persuasive college administrator or some other outside agent to pick a different player.

Also... This makes me miss theebs. It's not draft season without him getting a screen cap of this show. Anyone know where he is? I PMd him and never heard anything back. Hope he's okay.

Anyway, thanks for the post.

Thanks Lab, I may be disjointed. I love women that are double jointed too.

The meeting with 30 people or more and Jerry, Stephen, Jason at the "head table" and Ciskowski up front. So every high draft prospect was up on HD screen in front of everyone, their highlights (this is the last, most crucial meeting ...). Everybody, every scout, had laptops and were kinda being politically correct, if you can say that - you and I would be cowed with these guys in the room. The scouts were expressing their opinions like you would be if 30 people at your office were meeting. You kind of shy away, or hide your true feelings because Jerry Stephen Jason are there. It looks like it lines up that Jason and Jerry will have the final say. I hate that.

With the Rangers draft day the last few/many years, the owners leave Jon Daniels and the scouts alone. A beautiful thing. With the Cowboys, you are a talented scout but a young guy. Ciskowski understands, but the deadening political Cowboys front office meetings with the head honchos who say "I Like hime" like Jason who watches 2 minutes of highlights ....doesn't give you a voice. ..

This said, the young guys know more than the old guys in scouting. A big assumption, and the young guys have been brought in by the worse older scouts. For god's sake, I hope so.
 
Don't understand why Dallas just get an all around back that can play all down.... I like Felix coming in on 3rd down or on passing situation, but I don't expect Felix making a living picking up the blitz or dominated short yds situations.... that why I think Barber still on the team, for his ability to pickup blitz and better in shorts yds..... Hell CHOICE is more an all around back than Felix and Barber -
 
Yeah, igt, the Rangers really did it the right way. Tom Hicks may be the devil, but one thing I'll give him credit for is allowing Daniels' plan of trading the Teixirias of the world and accumulating draft picks and young players, even though it meant a couple of lean years... And then getting out of the way.

And I had to laugh when I read in that D magazine article the other day that Nolan had some reservations about the new HD video board because he was afraid it could be used to show up the other team. Could anyone be more different from Jerry?

Anyway, I really wish I'd seen that. Makes me mad because I had my recorder set to get the Blitz every week, but with the lockout and all I haven't had it set to for several weeks now.
 
Felix w/ a good OL is a monster.
 
After Jerry fired all the Schramm scouts where did they end up?

Did they go to another NFL franchise?
 
Sow hat was the context of this meeting. was this on draft day or is it just random player evaluation meeting?

How long was the clip?

I am just trying to get a feeling for the context. You kinda go off on assumptions about who made what pick and the like. I am kinda confused, tbh.
 
igtmfo;3920805 said:
Watching the video of the room of scouts plus Jerry plus Jason on the "Blitz" CBS tv show last night ... taped in the last few weeks.

Jason and Jerry were at the main table and had the floor of the discussion. Hey I imagine Wade was in the same spot last season. (And worse, Wade apparently had the Jason Williams "ace" and loved him.)

The whole Cowboys staff must cowtow to coaches plus Jerry in these meetings where it mostly Jerry talking BS (as he does on the video). There are 30 people in the room. Have you heard decision by committee amounts to championships? It looks by the vid that the scouts, including Ciskowski are afraid be passionate - yea or nay about any player ..

On this video, hearing Jerry espouse his draft philosophy for the (smarter? scouts) for a particular player, just dumb homilies. ("50 percent of picks don't make it" Jerry says), stupid,

Jerry has had no clue once the Schramm-era scouts were fired by Jerry himself way back in 1993. Hearing Jason's homilies on this video "I like him!". By all accounts, Jason was the lynchpin in he Roy Williams trade, Felix Jones was his favorite etc. ... God knows what Jason thinks about OL .. His dad did nothing as far as scouting here, very little anyway.

Let me tell Cowboys fans: The 1965-1993 era ruled. The same scouts mostly over the years. Fantastic results. Except that after the first SB win in Jan 1993, Jerry fired the wonderful draft/front office that he had inherited from the Schramm era to save money: Mansberger, Ackles, Wooten etc. These were the guys that had got us to the playoffs nearly every year for 20 years. Enter Larry Lacewell and an era of poor scouting .... (Jim Garrett came in in 1987 I think, but stuck around for way too long ...)

Don't believe me, but read the following from the savant Joel Buschbaum. And Jason Garrett, read the following and learn:

"'Don't forget the scouts"

Owners should think twice about giving head coaches too much power
By Joel Buchsbaum, Pro Football Weekly, Aug. 30, 2002

The league is undergoing a trend now where many owners stop appreciating the personnel departments and make the coaches the superstars.

This originally started in Dallas with Jimmy Johnson, where Johnson got the reputation as a brilliant personnel man.

In part, he deserved those accolades, but Dallas also had a brilliant scouting staff led by Dick Mansperger, with people such as Jeff Smith and Bob Ackles assisting.

The reason the Cowboys dropped off - although it took a few years - was because they did a poor job of drafting and trading after they dismantled key portions of the scouting staff.

Mansperger was one of the best and most unheralded scouting directors in the NFL.

Smith was also a yeoman's scout, and Ackles was a brilliant organizer, and front-office man, who played a key role in the Herschel Walker steal.

Without all these men, Cowboys president Jerry Jones and his son tried to do too many things themselves and as a result, the Cowboys had some disastrous trades, in combination with some poor drafts.

At times, they traded up for players that they could've gotten a round later and they were also picking up players that no one else wanted and paying exorbitant prices for players.

To give you an example of the contrast, in 1989, when Johnson took over shortly before the draft and relied heavily on the material Mansperger and his scouts supplied, the Cowboys drafted QB Troy Aikman in the first round, FB Daryl Johnston in the second round, C Mark Stepnoski in the third round and DE Tony Tolbert in the fourth round.

They also would've taken DL Marvin Washington in the fifth round, except Johnson overruled and took a player from Florida, DL Jeff Roth, whom he had faced when he coached Miami.

One year later, Dallas got RB Emmitt Smith, WR Alexander Wright, DB Kenny Gant and DT Jimmie Jones.

The following years, in 1991 and '92, they got DT Russell Maryland, WR Alvin Harper, LB Dixon Edwards, LB Godfrey Myles, OT Erik Williams, DT Leon Lett, CB Larry Brown, CB Kevin Smith, LB Robert Jones, WR Jimmy Smith and S Darren Woodson.

By 1993, a good portion of the scouting staff had been dismantled.

In '94, with Jones running the draft, Dallas traded up in the first round to select Arizona State DE Shante Carver, who most teams regarded as a late second-round pick.

In '95, Jones traded his first-round pick for two second-round picks, then wound up taking RB Sherman Williams, TE Kendell Watkins and OG Shane Hannah in the second round.

A year later, once again, he traded out of the first round, and the only players he had to show out of that draft were DE Kavika Pittman and LB Randall Godfrey.

In '97, he traded up for TE David LaFleur. ...

----

Yes, because Mansberger, Ackles and Wooten did such an amazing job throughout the 80's. :rolleyes:
 

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