ROMOSAPIEN9
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I want my own taser gun so I can show who's BOSS!!
- Thread starter ROMOSAPIEN9
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Blake
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My response is what would you do in that situation? The guy clearly refused to sign the form. The cop then ordered him out of the car to put him under arrest but the guy started walking away so it's hard to judge the officer given the situation. The tazer was a bit overboard but then again his authority was being challenged and I'm sure he had to find away to take control of the situation. What he should of done though is called for another officer to accompany him. However the guy had plenty of chances to put his hands against the car and just take his medicine...he clearly saw the taser being pointed at him. It's not like the taser killed him, tasers are there to allow a cop to neutralize a situation with minimal violence or injuries. Again, he probally should of called another officers instead but who's to say this guy wouldn't of just gotten back in his SUV and sped off. Then you have a high speed chase on your hands with thousands of lives in the balance. The cop did what he thought was the right thing and unless your in the same situation it's hard to put alot of blame on his actions...it's not like mercessley beat the tar out of the guy.
CanadianCowboysFan
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After the way our cops killed a Polish immigrant at Vancouver Airport in October by tasering him for no good reason, one would think cops everywhere would be more careful, but I see that isn't the case.
heavyg
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Blake;1789933 said:
Your right. What else was he going to do. Fight with the guy. And risk both of them falling into the busy Highway. Yeah he could have called for back up but how far away was his back up? Plus the guys wife was pretty mad as well. If he was rolling on the ground fighting him then he would have to worry about her doing something stupid as well. Tazers DO NOT kill people. Once you are tazed and the current is no longer flowing there is NO MORE pain. These people you see screaming thier heads off are just putting up a front. Now don't get me wrong it hurts like everything while its happening. But once its over there is no pain.
Kevinicus
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I think the cop was way off on this one. Even when he describes what happened to the other officer at the end, how he says it happened isn't at all how it really went down. The guy was just arriving at the car when he whipped out the tazer. He obviously had every intent of pulling it on him before he asked him to get out of the car. All for not signing a ticket? I would refuse to sign a ticket as well if I didn't feel like I was guilty, and especially if the cop was unable to give specifics on why I was guilty. I don't know where this was, but here, signing the ticket is an admission of guilt.
heavyg
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ChldsPlay;1791721 said:
What you don't understand is when you sign the ticket your not admitting guilt. You are signing a promiss to appear in court. Basically the ticket is you being release on your own recognisance. If you refuse to sign you can be arrested.
ROMOSAPIEN9
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INcowboy;1793137 said:
I really think it's a slippery slope sometimes. In most cases, it would be wise just to follow instructions and say thank you officer. But, if you really think you've done nothing wrong...(ah-la speeding and any minor traffic violation)....one should allowed to plead his/her case w/o fear of having some police ego driven overkill in response. Then again, if that's the response you get, you might wanna just shut up, and take your chances in court.
It seems to me that our nations general police force has taken on a bit of a stormtrooper mentallity. I absolutely hate to see when the regular patrol officer has someone pulled over for speeding, and he's wearing what looks like full combat, black fatigues.
I just think it's unfotunate that the law abiding citizens of our great nation are becoming more and more afraid of the police.
heavyg
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ROMOSAPIEN9;1793480 said:
I wish there was more fear around here than there is. I would settle for more respect. This town has the least amount of respect for law enforecment than I have ever seen. I know respect is earned for the most part. Buuuut, there should also be some automatic respect until its unwarranted
Kevinicus
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heavyg;1792733 said:
I guess it's different in different states. But still, the officer escalated the situation without cause. He should be suspended and sued. You can't blame the guy for not responding after the officer pulled the gun since it was obvious at that point he, the officer, was beyond good judgement. A guy pulls a gun on you for no reason, it's hard to trust him, especially when you're scared to death.
Doomsday
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ROMOSAPIEN9;1793480 said:
I agree you should be able to pleed your case but you need to do it in a way that is non threatening to the cop. Cops have no idea what your intentions are or whether or not your a crazy SOB, thats why they have procedures. If this guy had followed orders, then plead his case things may have been different. And like you said they have court systems for you to plead your case if you feel you didnt do anything wrong.
Im not saying cops dont cross the line but they do have a tough job, there are a lot of crazy people out there and Im sure 80% of the people they pull over have an excuse, lie or think they didnt do anything wrong. To me their safety comes first.
Doomsday
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ChldsPlay;1794323 said:
What is the cop suppose to do when he asks you to turn around and put your hands on top of your head and you dont comply? He is all alone out there right next to on coming traffic with someone who isnt listening and arguing with him. Again the taser MAY have been a bit excessive but Im sorry people need to follow instructions given to them by cops.
mr.jameswoods
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The officer could have informed the man of his rights before asking him to get out of the car. It's pretty clear, the driver was misinformed and assumed that signing the form meant conceding guilt, which it doesn't. Had the officer simply explained that to him, the man would have likely signed the ticket. The officer could have just as easily said the following:
"Sir, I need to inform you that your refusal to sign this form will result in me having to place you under arrest. I will have to ask you to step outside the vehicle and place your hands behind your back. By signing this form, you are not conceding guilt. You may still challenge this ticket in a court of law. However, I need you to sign this to verify your receipt of this. If you do not sign the form, I'm required to place you under arrest. Do you understand what I just said? Sir, at this point, I can't discuss this issue any further."
Gee...was that so hard? If the officer took some time and communicated this to him, it's likely the man would have just signed the ticket. However, if you ask him to step outside the vehicle and then suprise him with a charge of arrest, I too would be furious and confused.
I do agree that the man should have listened to the officer. I don't blame the officer for tasering him at that point because you never know. The guy could have pulled a gun or some other weapon. But the blame still lies with the police officer because it should have never gotten to that point. The officer could have been humble and tried to explain to the man his rights. I feel the biggest problem with police officers is their attitude as opposed to their enforcement of the law. Their personality really offends people in many cases. I think that issue is taken for granted. For example, I don't think people have issues with receiving speeding tickets as much as they do with the officer who pulls them over and behaves in a condescending and an intimidating manner while doing it. No one likes being spoken down to. In medicine, we learned that 80% of physician directed lawsuits are filed because the patient felt disrespected or mistreated even if the physician didn't actually cause any harm. Interestingly, doctors who do committ mistakes are often not sued because their patients like them.
"Sir, I need to inform you that your refusal to sign this form will result in me having to place you under arrest. I will have to ask you to step outside the vehicle and place your hands behind your back. By signing this form, you are not conceding guilt. You may still challenge this ticket in a court of law. However, I need you to sign this to verify your receipt of this. If you do not sign the form, I'm required to place you under arrest. Do you understand what I just said? Sir, at this point, I can't discuss this issue any further."
Gee...was that so hard? If the officer took some time and communicated this to him, it's likely the man would have just signed the ticket. However, if you ask him to step outside the vehicle and then suprise him with a charge of arrest, I too would be furious and confused.
I do agree that the man should have listened to the officer. I don't blame the officer for tasering him at that point because you never know. The guy could have pulled a gun or some other weapon. But the blame still lies with the police officer because it should have never gotten to that point. The officer could have been humble and tried to explain to the man his rights. I feel the biggest problem with police officers is their attitude as opposed to their enforcement of the law. Their personality really offends people in many cases. I think that issue is taken for granted. For example, I don't think people have issues with receiving speeding tickets as much as they do with the officer who pulls them over and behaves in a condescending and an intimidating manner while doing it. No one likes being spoken down to. In medicine, we learned that 80% of physician directed lawsuits are filed because the patient felt disrespected or mistreated even if the physician didn't actually cause any harm. Interestingly, doctors who do committ mistakes are often not sued because their patients like them.
silverbear
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ChldsPlay;1791721 said:
And in every state I've ever lived in, you'd be put under arrest for doing so...
I'd be curious to know where you live, because once again, in every state I've ever lived in, signing the ticket is NOT an admission of guilt; indeed, it generally says so right on the citation, somewhere close to where you're supposed to sign it... and the officer has always explained that it was not an admission of guilt to me... so I've never had any problem signing the ticket...
Maybe the cop used excessive force in this case, but refusing to sign a traffic ticket is just plain STUPID, and an invitation for the cops to mess with you...
I swear, there are a lot of testosterone-driven would-be "outlaws" in here who need to figure out that the best way not to be hassled by the law is to not give the law any grief... even if you're annoyed at being hauled over, it's in your best interest to choke back that annoyance, and treat the officer in question with the utmost respect and civility...
Following that approach has resulted in me getting off with a warning on far more than half of the times I've been pulled over by the police... it's also resulted in me going 55 years without feeling a pair of handcuffs around my wrists...
But hey, you tough guys go ahead and show the cops how tough you are... of course, guys like you are the reason that guy got tasered in the first place... there are too many of you tough guys out there, ready to get in a cop's face, and they every right to protect themselves against getting assaulted...
Again, in THIS case I'm not sure that excuse holds up, I'm just remarking on the "screw the police" attitude I'm seeing in this thread, and most threads about the law...
silverbear
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ROMOSAPIEN9;1793480 said:
Court is the place to "plead your case"...
Maybe you are, but I'm not afraid of them at all, at all... and on one occasion in my life, 2 years ago, I had a cop SERIOUSLY abuse his power; my nephew/roommate ticked off a cop on the interstate, flipped him off when said cop was driving in the passing lane at 60MPH on his way home from work, talking on his cell phone, forcing people to pass him on the right...
This cop followed my nephew back to my place way back in the woods, then like I said got out of the car with his freakin' weapon drawn... all this over some TRAFFIC violations... well, I stood by and watched it, told the nephew to keep his freakin' mouth shut, then got the cop's name off the citation, called his station and lodged a formal complaint... a few days later, we received a letter from his captain, stating that the officer was indeed out of line, and we could safely ignore the citations that were written, since that cop had no jurisdiction to write a ticket in this case...
Sure, I was pissed at that jagoff coming onto my property with his weapon drawn, and I still think the guy should have been fired, but the point is, I kept my mouth shut, let the whole scene play out, then took action when the time was right...
That's how you deal with a cop who's abusing his badge... you don't fight the law, the law will ALWAYS win... only an idiot would fail to understand that basic fact...