I'd better keep myself in shape...

[THUMPER]

I have decided that I need to take better care of myself if I ever want to see my beloved Cowboys win another SB.

Jerry Jones is 16 years older than me and I just have to outlive him and hope that Stephen can put together a winning combination of GM, HC, Coaching Staff, and players to win once Jerry is out of the way.

Jerry Jones is a wonderful human being, a great guy, someone who will spend whatever it takes in monetary terms to win but he will NEVER step out of the way, NEVER spend what it takes in EGO terms to win.

The only constant since our last SB win is Jerry Jones. We've tried young up-and-coming coaches like Chan Gailey. Didn't work. We tried a homegrown guy in Dave Campo, HUGE failure. We tried the Old-School disciplinarian in Bill Parcells. Didn't win anything. We went to a player-friendly guy in Wade Phillips, still struggling.

We've changed drafting strategies, FA signing strategies, changed defenses, changed personnel guys, tried cycling and re-cycling coaches, took chances on players then got rid of them.

Nothing has worked and nothing has really changed because it all starts at the TOP. Until it changes there, nothing else will matter. We could somehow bring in Bill Belichick and it wouldn't change anything. We could resurrect Tom Landry, Paul Brown, and Vince Lombardi and it wouldn't matter because NO ONE is going to have the final authority except Jerry Jones. He has stated it many times, that he will NEVER relinquish that position. It is the reason he bought the team in the first place (see my sig).

So we all just need to settle in and get used to the disappointments until Jerry finally passes away. I will still watch and root for my team and hope that somehow they can overcome the "Man-At-The-Top", but so far nothing they have done has worked.

I used to think that if I could just get myself in good enough shape I could try out for the team and maybe make the roster but now I had better eat right and exercise more so I can live longer if I want to see us win another SB.

 

[TonyS]

You are correct, Thumper. The only constant over the past 16 years is Jerry Jones and his absolute control mantra.

The closest we got to a SB-type HC was Parcells and at that time, the team wasn't talented enough to handle the disciplinarian coach and his hard-nosed teaching style.

Now that we have a very talented team, Wade should be in his most productive year(s) as head coach. We've been in the same offensive and defensive systems for years. The players aren't having to learn anything new. They should be coming together and be at their best. And where are we?

1-4

I do think, however that Jerry has it in him to hire the right guy, as he tried to with Parcells. His drafting ability has gotten somewhat better as well. I still hold out hope that he will bring in a coach that can tie it all together, but the hope is not super strong at this point.

Keep working out and staying in shape, though. It is a good thing to do no matter what Jerry does.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

I've been a Jerry Jones defender for a long time . . . but I've changed my stance this season.

I've also acknowledged that we'll never win another Championship so long as he's in charge. Because as long as he's in charge, it'll never fully be about football with the Cowboys. Instead, it'll be about marketing and the show.

My biggest hope is Stephen takes over eventually, and installs Tom Ciscowski as GM. And by eventually, I mean in the next 5 or so years before Tom is given a GM opportunity with another team.

 

[diehard2294]

Can't say I can argue.....I am trying to not let it get to me though! And that's not easy

 

[juck]

Yea the flash of JJ has lost its luster. Guy is killing his own team.

 

[yimyammer]

I have decided that I need to take better care of myself if I ever want to see my beloved Cowboys win another SB.

Jerry Jones is 16 years older than me and I just have to outlive him and hope that Stephen can put together a winning combination of GM, HC, Coaching Staff, and players to win once Jerry is out of the way.

Jerry Jones is a wonderful human being, a great guy, someone who will spend whatever it takes in monetary terms to win but he will NEVER step out of the way, NEVER spend what it takes in EGO terms to win.

The only constant since our last SB win is Jerry Jones. We've tried young up-and-coming coaches like Chan Gailey. Didn't work. We tried a homegrown guy in Dave Campo, HUGE failure. We tried the Old-School disciplinarian in Bill Parcells. Didn't win anything. We went to a player-friendly guy in Wade Phillips, still struggling.

We've changed drafting strategies, FA signing strategies, changed defenses, changed personnel guys, tried cycling and re-cycling coaches, took chances on players then got rid of them.

Nothing has worked and nothing has really changed because it all starts at the TOP. Until it changes there, nothing else will matter. We could somehow bring in Bill Belichick and it wouldn't change anything. We could resurrect Tom Landry, Paul Brown, and Vince Lombardi and it wouldn't matter because NO ONE is going to have the final authority except Jerry Jones. He has stated it many times, that he will NEVER relinquish that position. It is the reason he bought the team in the first place (see my sig).

So we all just need to settle in and get used to the disappointments until Jerry finally passes away. I will still watch and root for my team and hope that somehow they can overcome the "Man-At-The-Top", but so far nothing they have done has worked.

I used to think that if I could just get myself in good enough shape I could try out for the team and maybe make the roster but now I had better eat right and exercise more so I can live longer if I want to see us win another SB.

Pretty much agree, however I don't think the coach needs final authority, just a high level of authority and a creative enough personality willing to set aside his own ego in order to compel and exhort Jerry to get on board with the concept of team first, fundamental football.

I feel like Jerry was so burned by the demise of the relationship with Jimmy that he has lost his ability to trust and truly empower his head coach. A clever coach that doesn't mind letting Jones get credit could be very successful in this league. He just can't be a tyrant who expects Jerry to cow-tow to his every whim.

Jerry could have been BSing us, but when he first bought the team, he had the right mindset (IMO). I wish he'd go back and revisit some of the things he said when he first bought the team and embrace his original mentality. Here are some of Jerry's quotes that I really like (circa 89 to 93'):

"I just want to say this: There is no substitute for winning, I know that's a cliche but we must win, we will win, win is the name of the game"

[youtube]ZQk9_nHxT7M[/youtube]

From: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5545546:

"If you're willing to give others the credit, you can conquer the world......credit..there's enough to go around"

"you gotta realize that in sports, the coach needs to be the man, he needs to think he's the man, the player needs to think he's the man"

"Coaching takes experience, the Dallas Cowboys deserve to have the greatest coaching in the world"

From http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5545771:

"Anybody can say anything they want to to me, as long as I know they have mine and the teams interest at heart, as long as their genuine, if they're not genuine, I don't even want their smile, their smirk smile..."

 

[Hoofbite]

Outlive Jerry?

Good luck.

As long as he's alive, he'll be around. If medicine advances too far in the next few years, he could be a head in a jar calling the shots.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Outlive Jerry?

Good luck.

As long as he's alive, he'll be around. If medicine advances too far in the next few years, he could be a head in a jar calling the shots.

:laugh2:

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I've been a Jerry Jones defender for a long time . . . but I've changed my stance this season.

Same here, I have had enough of the exact same problems going uncorrected year after year and will no longer be an apologist for this buffoon.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Jerry Jones is the stupidity that infects the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[TNCowboy]

I've been a Jerry Jones defender for a long time . . . but I've changed my stance this season.

I've also acknowledged that we'll never win another Championship so long as he's in charge. Because as long as he's in charge, it'll never fully be about football with the Cowboys. Instead, it'll be about marketing and the show.

My biggest hope is Stephen takes over eventually, and installs Tom Ciscowski as GM. And by eventually, I mean in the next 5 or so years before Tom is given a GM opportunity with another team.

Why do you have so much faith in Ciskowski? Just curious.

The way I look at it, Ciskowski has been "in charge" (if you want to call it that; we all know who is really in charge) of the last 3 drafts. To date, we have gotten very little out of those drafts, except out of the 1st rounders, and those guys aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

The jury is still out on Cisowski and these drafts, but what we've seen thus far isn't encouraging. I suspect last year's draft will go down as one of the worst in team history. Maybe he's awesome and just handicapped by Jerry, but I'm skeptical.

 

[THUMPER]

Pretty much agree, however I don't think the coach needs final authority, just a high level of authority and a creative enough personality willing to set aside his own ego in order to compel and exhort Jerry to get on board with the concept of team first, fundamental football.

I feel like Jerry was so burned by the demise of the relationship with Jimmy that he has lost his ability to trust and truly empower his head coach. A clever coach that doesn't mind letting Jones get credit could be very successful in this league. He just can't be a tyrant who expects Jerry to cow-tow to his every whim.

Jerry could have been BSing us, but when he first bought the team, he had the right mindset (IMO). I wish he'd go back and revisit some of the things he said when he first bought the team and embrace his original mentality. Here are some of Jerry's quotes that I really like (circa 89 to 93'):

"I just want to say this: There is no substitute for winning, I know that's a cliche but we must win, we will win, win is the name of the game"

[youtube]ZQk9_nHxT7M[/youtube]

From: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5545546:

"If you're willing to give others the credit, you can conquer the world......credit..there's enough to go around"

"you gotta realize that in sports, the coach needs to be the man, he needs to think he's the man, the player needs to think he's the man"

"Coaching takes experience, the Dallas Cowboys deserve to have the greatest coaching in the world"

From http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5545771:

"Anybody can say anything they want to to me, as long as I know they have mine and the teams interest at heart, as long as their genuine, if they're not genuine, I don't even want their smile, their smirk smile..."

So much of what he said and did in those early years were what set on course to win 3 championships but when Jimmy left he changed how he saw things and it simply hasn't worked. I know we have heard various versions of what happened but I believe it was an issue over who got the bulk of the credit for the success of the team.

Jimmy had that authority I spoke of and it worked well for us. He brought in the assistants that HE wanted, built his staff, drafted the players he wanted to draft (for the most part), and cut or traded whoever he didn't want on the team.

I agree with you that once Jimmy left, Jerry didn't want to trust anyone with that much authority again. IMO it is because he didn't want anyone else to ever be able to claim that they built the team. Jerry wants to be seen as the guy who made it happen and that is not likely to ever change.

 

[LucaBrasi]

well, you'll always have the memories.

 

[THUMPER]

Jerry Jones is the stupidity that infects the Dallas Cowboys.

In essence that is true. Not that Jerry is a stupid person but that his way of doing things has created an atmosphere where doing all the little things isn't a requirement.

I'm not sure how many of you are old enough to have watched Mike Tyson from the start of his career but this reminds me of him. Early on he was unbeatable because he worked hard on the nuances of boxing. He was very hard to hit, he bobbed and weaved his way in and worked for his shots. He threw punches in combinations and set-up his opponent before throwing the big bomb. He was absolutely amazing to watch!

He had a great set of people training him in Bill Caton and Kevin Rooney and Cus D'Amato had always told Mike never to have anything to do with Don King. After Cus died, King came creeping in and finally wormed his way into Mike's camp. He turned Mike against Bill Caton and then against Rooney.

The worst thing that Don King did though was he constantly told Mike how great he was, that he just needed to throw the big bombs. Tyson stopped bobbing and weaving, stopped working his way in, stopped throwing jabs and became easier to hit. Sure, he could still knock guys out with that big shot but when he faced Buster Douglas he lost because he was no longer focused on doing the little things. He could get by at times with it but not that night.

IMO that's what Jerry is doing to this team. He keeps telling them how great they are, how much they mean to him, how he has done everything to make them winners, how the money he poured into the new stadium showed his commitment to winning, etc. The problem is that the players aren't listening to their position coaches telling them they need to work harder, to focus on the little details. Why should they? They have Jerry telling them to just go out and win! That's what Don King said to Mike Tyson too.

One of my heroes died recently, John Wooden. Wooden never talked about winning games, just about doing all the little things right. You do things right and do your best and things will work out in the end. That is the opposite of what I see in this team and it starts with Jerry Jones.

Jerry has the "swing-for-the-fence-every-time" mentality. It worked for him in business and he thinks that it has worked for him in the NFL as well but it was Jimmy Johnson, who forced his players to practice hard and focus on the details, who made that success happen (just ask Troy Aikman if you don't believe me).

It is not "stupidity" per se but it is an incorrect attitude that infects the Dallas Cowboys and it stems from Jerry Jones and it results in players not playing smart.

 

[THUMPER]

well, you'll always have the memories.

I've been living off them for 15 years now. :starspin

 

[john van brocklin]

Thumper great opening post and follow ups !
I am 50 so, I am taking care of myself as well.

 

[TonyS]

IMO that's what Jerry is doing to this team. He keeps telling them how great they are, how much they mean to him, how he has done everything to make them winners, how the money he poured into the new stadium showed his commitment to winning, etc. The problem is that the players aren't listening to their position coaches telling them they need to work harder, to focus on the little details. Why should they? They have Jerry telling them to just go out and win! That's what Don King said to Mike Tyson too.

One of my heroes died recently, John Wooden. Wooden never talked about winning games, just about doing all the little things right. You do things right and do your best and things will work out in the end. That is the opposite of what I see in this team and it starts with Jerry Jones.

Jerry has the "swing-for-the-fence-every-time" mentality. It worked for him in business and he thinks that it has worked for him in the NFL as well but it was Jimmy Johnson, who forced his players to practice hard and focus on the details, who made that success happen (just ask Troy Aikman if you don't believe me).

It is not "stupidity" per se but it is an incorrect attitude that infects the Dallas Cowboys and it stems from Jerry Jones and it results in players not playing smart.

That could be the most concise and accurate description of Jerry's influence that I have ever read. Nice job, Thumper.

 

[THUMPER]

That could be the most concise and accurate description of Jerry's influence that I have ever read. Nice job, Thumper.

Thanks Tony. Now I just wish there was something I could do about it. :bang2:

 

[yimyammer]

In essence that is true. Not that Jerry is a stupid person but that his way of doing things has created an atmosphere where doing all the little things isn't a requirement.

I'm not sure how many of you are old enough to have watched Mike Tyson from the start of his career but this reminds me of him. Early on he was unbeatable because he worked hard on the nuances of boxing. He was very hard to hit, he bobbed and weaved his way in and worked for his shots. He threw punches in combinations and set-up his opponent before throwing the big bomb. He was absolutely amazing to watch!

He had a great set of people training him in Bill Caton and Kevin Rooney and Cus D'Amato had always told Mike never to have anything to do with Don King. After Cus died, King came creeping in and finally wormed his way into Mike's camp. He turned Mike against Bill Caton and then against Rooney.

The worst thing that Don King did though was he constantly told Mike how great he was, that he just needed to throw the big bombs. Tyson stopped bobbing and weaving, stopped working his way in, stopped throwing jabs and became easier to hit. Sure, he could still knock guys out with that big shot but when he faced Buster Douglas he lost because he was no longer focused on doing the little things. He could get by at times with it but not that night.

IMO that's what Jerry is doing to this team. He keeps telling them how great they are, how much they mean to him, how he has done everything to make them winners, how the money he poured into the new stadium showed his commitment to winning, etc. The problem is that the players aren't listening to their position coaches telling them they need to work harder, to focus on the little details. Why should they? They have Jerry telling them to just go out and win! That's what Don King said to Mike Tyson too.

One of my heroes died recently, John Wooden. Wooden never talked about winning games, just about doing all the little things right. You do things right and do your best and things will work out in the end. That is the opposite of what I see in this team and it starts with Jerry Jones.

Jerry has the "swing-for-the-fence-every-time" mentality. It worked for him in business and he thinks that it has worked for him in the NFL as well but it was Jimmy Johnson, who forced his players to practice hard and focus on the details, who made that success happen (just ask Troy Aikman if you don't believe me).

It is not "stupidity" per se but it is an incorrect attitude that infects the Dallas Cowboys and it stems from Jerry Jones and it results in players not playing smart.

Excellent analogy, I am old enough and I remember

 

[CCBoy]

Thumper, you already know that I have loved you as a co-fan for many years now. Your heart will always be in the Cowboys....

that stated, I have to depart some. If and when Jerry does pass on from behind the organization. It won't change an ounce. I think that projections with the coming of his son, Stephen, are misrepresented. He is getting more in line with the actual policies and concepts of his Father, as time moves on.

He hasn't been shielded from the process over the past ten years. No, he has been as much of the process as was his father.

In top notched organizations, they learn the variables of function and start to apply them. This hasn't been lost on Jerry or his son, but they already incorporate both monetary and player development, sustainment, and a high level of performance expectation through it's roster.

I think that Jerry becomes the excuse for any fan as well as many current Dallas/Ft Worth journalists as well. That to my views, sucks...as hanging in the team becomes a social convenience. And the tar bucket and feather's brigade becomes the norm. Insult and arrogance are immediate bye products of this new found team loyalty. If there isn't immediate, and game by game success, then Cowboy fans tuck their heads and start complaining. If one has but followed any of the other three teams in this conference, they have had up and downs much more than the Jerry led Cowboys.

What has seemed to happen this season, is the younger element on this team has shown growing pains. Not a lack of leadership or quality in either Jerry or Wade. You have young players, such as those comprising the coverage teams this season, and such other players as a Mike Jenkins, Scandrick, or Ball. You even have a great potential player such as Dez Bryant short arming a ball when ALL was on the line during the final minutes of a game. Jenkins all but gave away a touchdown per loss the past two games. When game successes are often measured in 3-4 points, that is major.

What does that have to do with Jerry or Wade, beyond having to live out some of the growing pains in that youth. I don't think anyone argues that players having today's youth on this team, aren't talented. Sometimes they just have to see, if given enough head to be a professional in play and discipline, that when they AREN'T, it hurts the team. That takes time to soak in.

Myself, I'd much rather have players with their total efforts at correcting deficiencies and their minds involved with giving all they can muster. Than flipping player reactions to instead, being always on the edge in locker rooms. That and their release from the coaching introduced attitude, finding release in such matters as beating their wives, the 'white house,' or stabbing other players with scissors or hitting over the head with a chair.

I just guess that's the old school ethics coming out in this old fan...

As to team motivation, maybe some of you guys should see the real function involving Jerry Jones in and around Valley Ranch. When Jerry takes time away from his own coaching staff, he is very motivational as a talker. Currently, he is given very high marks for addressing and easing feelings when they become ruffled and out of sort. Ask former Special Team's Coach, who was head coach for the Desperados and now is a Cowboy Analyst. He'll tell you openly just how effective Jerry actually is behind the scenes. He's not blind and beligerent or the reason why Dallas hasn't won at each juncture. Coughlin threw an entire coaching staff under the bus. You want that instead? Andy Reid almost won a Super Bowl for ten years. Didn't. Then threw almost all of his older players under the bus in successive years. Great franchise stuff there. Then in Washington, which of a very long short list doesn't impress?

Look again, guys...but without blinders on and your hearts frustrated leading the process.