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If dominant DT is what's needed then why has DET defense been so avg/bad

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Parcells4Life, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. sbark

    sbark Zone Supporter

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    Contrast them with the NYG last 2 superbowl teams. They kept their DLine in top shape, with a ave secondary---and scheme got them 2 rings. They had ave seasons much like the Lions, snuck into the playoffs, got hot.....and history. All with a cover 2 along the lines of Kiffens. But they were able to get pressure from all positions along the DLine, especially up the middle.
    jobberone likes this.
  2. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Moderator

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    This is so true yet so many don't grasp this. You have to get push in multiple areas preferably all over. You can't stop that for long without some max coverage and generally someone will get by their man and disrupt the play. That constant pressure is difficult mentally as well as physically.

    To answer another you do have to have good DBs. You can pressure a team but they can respond by getting the ball out early. Then you have to play that. Then they will lull you then hit you over the top. This is where athletes/players mesh with schemes and coaching.

    We aren't getting enough pressure although Marinelli got great pressure with the guys he had to work with last year. We just ended up with no LBers to cover and our secondary is just marginal at best too often.
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Fattening up Moderator

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    Yeah. We've talked about this in other threads, but offense and defense are different in this regard. A defense is as strong as its weakest link. Offenses will find, and eventually exploit any weakness. You can't have liabilities on the field, and you can't have matchup disadvantages, either. An offense can cover up for a weak running game, say, but throwing the ball. Or weak protections by keeping an extra blocker in. There's no covering a S who's flat footed or a ILB who can't shed blocks. It gets exposed.
    Illini88228 and jobberone like this.
  4. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Moderator

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    On the nosey! :)
    Idgit likes this.
  5. Zimmy Lives

    Zimmy Lives Well-Known Member

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    My question concerning Detroit's defense is who is their DC? Talent means very little unless the DC and staff do not place them in the best possible position to succeed as a unit on every play.
  6. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    We just need more cornerbacks. That will solve everything.
  7. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    People are vastly overrating the talent on defense. Fairley is good, Suh is great, Ziggy has potential and everybody else absolutely sucks.
  8. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Their linebackers and secondary are especially ordinary. If they had two more quality players in the back seven it would make a difference.
  9. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    And we acquired one of their LBs in free agency did we not?
  10. sbark

    sbark Zone Supporter

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    I wonder sometimes if the inconsistent pressure kept our DB's on their heels---other teams DB's seem to have the same clock in their heads of a QB, they know at some point pressure will get there and they start to take chances on jumping the routes or press coverage. Our DB's just didn't seem to ever want to take a chance after too many times of being burnt on inconsistent or non-existent pressure they knew would never come. At some point in a cover 2, knowing pressure is going to be there......Seattle's DB's seem to revert to man-to man, they are always there, but they have internal clocks telling them the DLine will be there.......
  11. Nova

    Nova Ntegrase96

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    I was going to use the Giants as an example, but their DTs were never the deciding component. It's always been the rotation of 3 really good to great DEs.

    07: Strahan, Osi, Tuck

    11: Tuck, Osi, JPP

    There was seemingly someone fresh on all big downs to rush the passer. In 07 it was tuck, and in 2011 it was Osi working against LTs worn down by JPP. And often, the NASCAR package had DEs playing against slower guards on passing downs.

    The DTs took kind of a back seat, although I recall Canty knocking down some passes and making QBs think twice about their delivery.

    But yeah, they're secondaries were really, really bad some of those years. Aaron Ross, in particular, was incredibly bad.
  12. Pessimist_cowboy

    Pessimist_cowboy Well-Known Member

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    You need 6 good DL period .
  13. Kaiser

    Kaiser Zone Supporter

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    Its not just the overall talent level, its about not having one glaring weakness that opposing teams can attack. If you have a street free agent in the game, opposing OCs will attack that spot successfully. If you remember the pre-Carr and Claiborne days at CB opposing teams would target guys like Alan Ball and exploit it all day long.
  14. sbark

    sbark Zone Supporter

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    Wont argue the Giants DE got the glory, but the lunchpail guys in the middle always got a push that prevented QB's from stepping up, setting things up for the DE.
    against the Cowboys it seemed the Giants set the strategy for Romo, that the rest of league jumped on---keep him in the pocket with the DE's, it seemed to me the DT's gave us a lot of problems, but they due stunt and play a lot of games to get the middle push and yet contain Romo, see the same thing with the Eagles DLine stunting etc.
  15. Nova

    Nova Ntegrase96

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    Which year are you talking about?

    I always felt like it was Jim Johnson and the Eagles who exposed Garrett's offense/Romo that began the demise in 07. I also credit their defense for putting together a decent blue print for the Pats too.

    But that approach was more about DBs bumping and running more than containing Romo. So might have been a culmination of things.
  16. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    When you just have to target Bradie James and Roy Williams, as well as Anthony Henry in pass coverage, 59 sacks is pretty damn good...
  17. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    Detroit has three high top draft picks on the DL (Suh, Fairley and Ansah) and their pass rush is so-so.

    I think Detroit's biggest problem is that they have 3 players eating up roughly half the cap (Stafford, Suh, and Megatron). There just isn't enough money to field 19 other players and some decent depth. Even though Stafford was decent, Suh was good, and Megatron was excellent, it still isn't enough to field a really good team.
  18. Manwiththeplan

    Manwiththeplan Well-Known Member

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    To me good DTs are better to have, but they are very hit and miss and can often be found later in the draft
    Frozen700 likes this.
  19. SWG9

    SWG9 Well-Known Member

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    That's kind of Dallas's problem too, right??

    My belief is the truly dominant defences are able to consistently generate pressure by rushing four and dropping seven. That's basically what the Seahawks are doing now with the cover 3, and you can trace that all the way back to the early 90s Cowboys (who almost never blitzed).

    Now, as others have pointed out, you're only as strong as your weakest link, but if you're going to have a weakest link, it shouldn't be on the DL.

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