If released in theory. would Dak start elsewhere?

Corso

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The reason I refer to the 64 games being in the first four years is to reflect the advantages that most quarterbacks get and to which Dak was never afforded.

Consider:

Yes, most quarterbacks have the advantage of sitting on the bench, acclimating themselves to the NFL game, observing the veteran starter and picking up the playbook in a structured time period. When they step on the field they have been given far more time to get familiar with their offensive teammates. Essentially, they don't have to learn all of it on the fly. You would expect them to provide better results, obviously. If not, then what use is there at all to teaching and training?

However, when is this not the case?

Typically, its when you make a very large investment in a potential franchise quarterback. That very large investment includes a premium draft pick, and most often in the top 5 picks in the 1st round if not #1 overall. its not unusual for a team to trade up, using numerous, high picks and even players to get him.

These blue chip college quarterbacks were drafted so high because they have demonstrated the ability to physically compete immediately, although elite results are not immediately expected. There is a reason that team drafted them and it usually involves a rebuilding process.

Aikman started games his rookie year and it got ugly, poor guy, especially against the Eagles.

Again, these circumstances are typically reserved for only the quarterback chosen very high in the draft.

But what if the team had no choice? What if they lost, not one, but their best two QB's before the start of the season? No coach in their right mind is going to throw in a rookie 4th round pick in the very first game of the season unless they simply had no other choice.

Tony Romo and Kellen Moore were both injured before the beginning of the season. The plan was to start Dak only until Romo was healthy enough to come back.

And so Dak was forced into a situation that you usually see for only the most highest draft picks. Not only that, but his contributions would not be limited to constantly handing the ball off while throwing 20-25 passes. He was expected to manage a prolific passing game.

Dak was given the same type of responsibilities of a future franchise quarterback. not only did he meet the challenge, he matched and sometimes exceeded their results, supposedly without the physical skills and attributes that made those other guys high draft picks.

Dak was never "groomed", he was never brought along slowly, he was never a project. Try to think of the last time a 4th round pick started a game.

Quarterbacks that are given time before they start their 1st 64 games are given a real advantage that Dak never had. That's why its not fair to compare them together. When you think of it, whch is easier to be compared to, other 3rd and 4th round picks or guys that were drafted in the highest positions, #1 picks and #2 picks in the top 5 positions?

I compare him to the those that were in the same situation and they happen to be franchise quarterbacks. And yet, he compares to them, not those who might be good enough as a future backup. Even most #1 picks are not thrown in day #1.

For example, Tony Romo started his first game in game #6 of his 4th season. If you check that info, you will see only two previous seasons because he did not play a single down in his first season. However, we all know that Tony started the same year as Jason Witten. Romo completed his 64th regular season start in December of 2011.

The point is, is it fair to compare a four year veteran to an eight year veteran?

Is it fair to compare someone who had over three years of coaching, teaching, and training to prepare for his first start to another player who had three months?

Is it fair to compare someone who had over 50 weeks worth of NFL regular season practices alongside his teammates before his first start to someone that has one week?

Of course not......and I'm only using Romo as an example becasue I am more familiar with his stats.

Now, as far as player statistics differing as a result of the time period they were in.....obviously. It is apples and oranges in some cases. Offensively, rule changes favoring more open offense has resulted in more pass oriented offenses and increased ability to score. This is why most of the quarterbacks on the list are either active or recently retired. Only three of them began their career before the 21st century. can't completely get away from it, fair or not.

In the 70's the DB's had no where near the restraints they have today. They were practically mugging the receivers. There was no 5 yard rule, no unprotected receiver, no helmet to helmet. QB's were getting physically assaulted. There was no such thing as in the grasp and every kind of hit was legal prior to the whistle being blown.

Suffice it to say, those passer ratings and catch percentage are radically different to todays. and yet, it is a true statement to say that Aaron Rodgers has the best passer rating in NFL history. Tony Romo has the 4th best passer rating in history. Tom Brady and Dak Prescott are tied for 5th best passer rating in history. Obviously if the player is active, his numbers are going to change so there is alway that possibility

Which NFL receiver is #1 in yardage? Does being #1 in yardage make him the best in NFL history. That is a matter of opinion, I do think Jerry Rice is the best but not for this reason. After all, when QB's were only throwing 12-15 passes is it fair ro compare their WR's to Jerry Rice's numbers? No. All those numbers tell me is that Jerry Rice has more yardage than any other WR in NFL history. Now, you could certainly use this information to build a case for saying he is the best. That is precisely what I was doing. I was using factual data to support my belief that Dak Prescott is indeed a top tier QB. The fact that his name keeps popping up simultaneously with Tom Brady should alert most.

Let me pause for a moment to address the horrific indignation at hearing Dak's name associated with Brady because "Dak doesnt deserve to be in the same sentence as Brady". To those foks I say, actually, yeah! In this case he does! They share a similar achievement. It's a fact and you can't do anything about it. If I was talking about SB rings then you have a right to say that, but I'm not.

You might disagree that Dak is a top tier QB.. You might even believe you have a justifiable reason, Great! Love to hear it. This is why the forum exists. The important part is to explain the reason and provide some type of information to support it.

I'm not saying Dak is the best QB in history. I wanted to make sure this was clear by comparing him only to those that shared the same criteria. Again, I am comparing Dak to all the others who happened to start from day #1 and had started their first 4 seasons while throwing the ball 2000 or more times, an average of 500 times a season.....Guys with equal amount of experience.....guys with an equal amount of data, pass attempts. Is that not fair? It just so happened that these other guys were some of the elite of the NFL.

Sorry about the length. You seemed genuinely interested and i wanted to provide mofre detail. Thank You.
Lot of stuff to chew on my friend. I appreciate it!
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Seems if you post something wrong or negative or that goes against the general idea you are are troll

LOL
no, if you post total BS, its a troll, which what you obviously tried to do given you contradicted yourself on the original post you had, which means you didn't put any thought into it, just posted something to get reactions...
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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I know a lot of people don't like stats. There are a lot of variables, I get it. However Dak's QBR for the 2019 season was 70.2. We have to have some gage by other than intangibles, which again is off the chart for this guy.

With that being said an average QB's QBR score is 50. The 70.2 he posted was good enough for 4th in the league.
dak haters, like darkhound, don't care about stats, because it disproves them on all their talking points, thus they dismiss it.....so they want you to trust their eyes or their opinions...because they can't support their opinion any other way
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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I guess I don't see it the way you do. Statistically, he's had one good season but didn't pair it with a winning season. I think he has long way to go before he starts getting any serious consideration, but that's just my opinion.
he has had several good seasons...but seemingly dak detractors want to put the entire onus on Dak for the 8-8 season not the team, yet when people talk about 13-3 season, everyone points to the team and he was in a great situation....two different ways of measuring to drive the agenda
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Wrong. I used the OP's logic to judge hall of fame quarterbacks. Not one comparison was made period. And loving my popcorn. :yourock::flagwave::grin:

So you ate a little crow. Would it hurt to admit you screwed up? Give it a try.

What exactly do you believe is wrong about what I said?

If you wish to believe I was wrong, so be it. Doesn't matter to me either way. You said the words, they are there for all to read.

But I'll ask the question again. When you watch Dak, do you see any of those HOF QBs in his play?
 

glimmerman

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Being A Cowboys fan I want us to win the SB every year. But I really want to now so that some will quit thinking he is just average or below average. Then everyone can say it was the players around him and he didn’t do anything.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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lol...there is nothing special about his statistics. He is going to be passed by dozens of qbs before he retires. The only reason his rate stats look good now is that he just barely passed over the 1500 attempt threshold. By the time he retires the worst quarterback in the league will probably be throwing for 5000 yards and 8 YPA.

Now if he wins 3 rings or something then he'll get in no matter what... but that ain't gonna happen as long as Jerry is alive and kicking.
you supported us signing Case Keenum...so is Case Keenum in the least of one of those worst QBs?

and compare his stats to stats of other QBs in their first 4 years....none of them look special. and Dak's ratings compare very favorably with most of the great QBs....so couldn't one say the same thing about them?

and seemingly you are very assure of yourself that Dak's play is going to take a massive nose dive for it to meet your crappy stats, given where he is today.....are you willing to bet on that and put some money on it? are you willing to bet that he will be one of the worst QBs in the league when all said and done? put your money where your mouth is son.
 

glimmerman

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he has had several good seasons...but seemingly dak detractors want to put the entire onus on Dak for the 8-8 season not the team, yet when people talk about 13-3 season, everyone points to the team and he was in a great situation....two different ways of measuring to drive the agenda
No credit for the wins but all the blame for the loses. The agenda has shifted quite a bit now there is no JG to blame.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Ohhh so you are 100% sure that Dak wont ever be cut? Like there is no way in heck that he will be cut lets say in 2 years?
I guarantee it. I am willing to put money on it. lets make a bet and put some dollars in an escrow account that will pay out in a couple of years....I can get a lawyer to set it up for us at no cost to you....make it a real wager, not a highschool $50 wager....put your money, where your mouth is...
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Dak would chew up Carter and Tebow for lunch and spit them both out at the same time,, that's not even fair to Dak, and you can ask anyone here how much I value Dak .. funny stuff.
this is where he truly exposed himself as a troll....mere mention of tim Tebow...tells you all you need to know...or else he is totally clueless about football if he mentions tebow
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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No credit for the wins but all the blame for the loses. The agenda has shifted quite a bit now there is no JG to blame.
exactly.....and I found it extremely funny, that this same group, didn't want us to resign and pay Cooper and came up with all kinds of lists that he is not even a top 15 WR....then they turn around and claim Dak has cooper and he is surrounded by talent.....they are speaking from both sides of their arse (cheeks)….
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Yeah, you must have me confused with someone else. The problem is, you run these stats and actually believe they’re true. You don’t have any kind of inner radar that sounds off and says, “what did I do wrong here?” Because you’re clueless.
Anytime you see someone say “first four years” with Dak you know they are stacking the deck for Dak by limiting to the extremely small subset of QBs who had enough luck and people get hurt so they could play right away. The vast majority of QBs before the year 2000 were not allowed to play in their first year. It was basically a mandate as a QB to serve as an apprentice before they were thrown into the fire.
So why don’t you run those stats again, this time through the first 64 starts, and then I’ll tell you what else you did wrong.
typical of haters, when their shorts get tied in a knot and they get frustrated, they resort to name calling....you say his stats are wrong? then prove it....show where he is wrong? show which stats are not true? you have the same opportunity as he does, other wise you are what you are, which is a troll
 

Wood

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People on here hate the kid, for who knows what reason.

I think hate is wrong term. I think over-paying Top $$ for QB who might not even be top 8 doesn't sit well with fans in cap era. Ultimately every Cowboy fans was team to win SB.
 

PJTHEDOORS

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I think hate is wrong term. I think over-paying Top $$ for QB who might not even be top 8 doesn't sit well with fans in cap era. Ultimately every Cowboy fans was team to win SB.

So if prime Aikman just put up almost 5,000 yards with 65% completions would you make this same posf?
 

Risen Star

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Well, you'd need to find a team that has absolutely no talent at the position and a complete disregard for what kind of human being they bring into the locker room.
 

plasticman

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If anybody is truly interested, I would be willing to go through the step by step process that was used to copy the data off Pro-Football-Reference, transfer it to an Excel spreadsheet and then apply the necessary sort, formula, and format functions to find the answers to the question I had.

Many of the most popular stats are readymade. For example, if you wanted the highest rated quarterbacks for a particular season or for all time, they are already there. If you wanted to re-arrange that list to rank them according to completion percentage all you have to do is click that column heading and it is done.

However, if you wanted more refined information, you would have to key in the parameters. If you wanted to perform calculations on the data, then you transfer it to spreadsheet to apply the required functions.

Anybody reporting a statement as factual can always provide a link to that statement. Reporting findings based on a statistical analysis is a little trickier but I'm always willing to try. Of course, some degree of trust would be far easier. Together, we Cowboy fans have a very far and diverse range of knowledge, skills, and experiences as well as education level. I'm probably somewhere in the middle as there are some on this forum with professional careers requiring advanced degrees, perhaps some doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.

Apparently, we all know how to use computers so nobody here lacks the capacity to understand whether a statement is a fact or an opinion. I know from being on this forum for a while that pretty much everyone understands that, in order for your opinion to be impactful, you want to base it on the relevent facts. 98% of you obviously don't need to be told this. The other 2% just needs to respect the effort of others. If you disagree with someone, you should make the effort to tell them why based on your information at hand. That's why we are all here. That's what discussion forums are for.
 
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