If Sean Payton comes to Dallas

[Bluestang]

I dont understand your point?

Garrett has not had success here, the offense gets worse under him and now he has been given full control and the team has become worse and worse.

Garrett has failed. His staff has failed. His offseasons have failed.

I still dont get your point.

Payton is a successful coach, I think him understanding the circus will not prohibit him from having success here. he is instant crediblity to the organization and accountability to the players. that will rub off on everything from Free agent signings, to practice habits, to on field performance and to coaches around the league who might want to come here with him.

the current regime has failed. bottom line.

And Garrett had to clean house with alot of people when he got the HC gig.

You don't get rid of 4 of your OL in 2 seasons and expect to win short term. I have never seen that much turnover in the NFL on the OL.

We got rid of alot of talent and haven't replaced it as fast as we let it go.

I can't fault anyone in charge for taking over at a time when we had to sit through FA because we had to eat large money contracts.

 

[theebs]

And Garrett had to clean house with alot of people when he got the HC gig.

You don't get rid of 4 of your OL in 2 seasons and expect to win short term. I have never seen that much turnover in the NFL on the OL.

We got rid of alot of talent and haven't replaced it as fast as we let it go.

I can't fault anyone in charge for taking over at a time when we had to sit through FA because we had to eat large money contracts.

Understood.

So why keep one of the main guys who had a huge hand in making these bad decisions? Why get rid of offensive lineman and then not dedicate yourself to at least getting one good player in the draft/free agency?

Garrett is and has been in on all of the nonsense that has gone on with this offense and this organization since he got here. Bad trades, bad contracts, bad draft picks.....he has been a part of that....big time part of it.

This organization needs a fresh approach and a fresh perspective on the talent on this roster and how the roster is constructed.

 

[birdwells1]

When you go to a game at the stadium you will see a million dez bryant jerseys.

you will never see a tyron smith jersey. I have yet to see one in two years.

that kind of twisted crap matters to the people in charge here.

absolutely it matters, that's why this team is built from the outside in, because 88s and 24s sell better the 77s and 63s. That's what happens when the person responsible for selecting players is also responsible for generating revenue. Most gms only care about getting quality players and coaches to generate wins, but here its not that simple.

 

[Bluestang]

Understood.

So why keep one of the main guys who had a huge hand in making these bad decisions? Why get rid of offensive lineman and then not dedicate yourself to at least getting one good player in the draft/free agency?

Garrett is and has been in on all of the nonsense that has gone on with this offense and this organization since he got here. Bad trades, bad contracts, bad draft picks.....he has been a part of that....big time part of it.

This organization needs a fresh approach and a fresh perspective on the talent on this roster and how the roster is constructed.

All good questions that I can really only speculate on.

IMO this offseason was to purely help out the defense and get Rob the players he needed to run his scheme. I suspect that the offense will get it's upgrades this coming one.

Judging by an interview that Stephen gave right before the OTAs I think the Cowboys were going to go after Zeitler with the first pick. Trade down to get Zeitler and get some more picks, but once the deal with St. Louis was in play they went after it because just like Tyron, it was for a blue-chip player that was their best defensive player rated on their board.

JG's philosophy, which he's stated before, is to fill your major holes via FA and draft BPA. They held to that philosphy during this 2012 draft. Tom Ciskowski had also stated that Garrett and Wade were very two different guys when it came to the scouting department.

I don't believe the FO forsaw Doug Free being miserable and Bernadeau struggling as bad he has. Those to me are the real disappointments, especially Free.

But you certainly cannot predict injuries like Costa (back) and then at some point having your 4th string OC get you through football games.

I think we all knew that an injury along the OL was going to have a major effect on this team and it was something we couldn't afford with the little depth behind them.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Again, I am confused to why so many think he would return.

I don't see it at all.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

CL, they sound that way because they are staunch JG supporters and Payton arrival would mean that their guy has failed. Saying that he's not coming here is another way of endorsing Garrett for another year. Most of the people that want Payton here were never really on the JG bandwagon so, since that's the case, if they can't have Garrett then they don't want us (the people that want Payton) to have our guy as hc.
As strange as it sounds, they would rather lose with Garrett than potentially win with Payton all for the sake of not be proven wrong.

I know, you're right. Sad and strange, isn't it?

But you'd think that even people who were on the Garrett bandwagon would see that he isn't the next Tom Landry, or even a good coach.

Well, some like theebs have seen the weight of the evidence and have changed their opinions, but others with bigger egos can't do that.

And even if you think Garrett is a "good" head coach -- which is pretty much impossible to argue -- wouldn't you still upgrade if you had the chance?

 

[Hostile]

I know, you're right. Sad and strange, isn't it?

But you'd think that even people who were on the Garrett bandwagon would see that he isn't the next Tom Landry, or even a good coach.

Well, some like theebs have seen the weight of the evidence and have changed their opinions, but others with bigger egos can't do that.

And even if you think Garrett is a "good" head coach -- which is pretty much impossible to argue -- wouldn't you still upgrade if you had the chance?

:laugh2:

We won't have the chance. That is what we are saying. Oh, and for the record, not just us "Garrett Fans."

Written today...

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/component/k2/item/177656-offsides-blog-who-ll-replace-sean-payton

"If I had to put odds on Payton remaining with the organization he turned into a winner -- I'd put those odds at 98 percent. "

Sorry.

Edit...By the way, the Saints feel they have Payton already inked for 2013 because they don't have him for this year. They are citing the length of his contract, which has not been fulfilled. They may have a case, as any lawyer will tell you, making this whole discussion, null and void.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I already said I think it's a longshot myself. One way or another, I suspect he's back in New Orleans.

The real issue is the people who wouldn't prefer him if he becomes available. And no, it's not offended, more like mystified.

But like bird said, to some people it's more about their egos and predictions than the success of the team.

 

[birdwells1]

:laugh2:

We won't have the chance. That is what we are saying. Oh, and for the record, not just us "Garrett Fans."

Written today...

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/component/k2/item/177656-offsides-blog-who-ll-replace-sean-payton

"If I had to put odds on Payton remaining with the organization he turned into a winner -- I'd put those odds at 98 percent. "

Sorry.

Edit...By the way, the Saints feel they have Payton already inked for 2013 because they don't have him for this year. They are citing the length of his contract, which has not been fulfilled. They may have a case, as any lawyer will tell you, making this whole discussion, null and void.

So....your saying there is a chance.

It sound like you're downright giddy either that we won't be upgrading severely in the coaching department or Garrett will be keeping his job which one is it?

 

[Idgit]

I already said I think it's a longshot myself. One way or another, I suspect he's back in New Orleans.

The real issue is the people who wouldn't prefer him if he becomes available. And no, it's not offended, more like mystified.

But like bird said, to some people it's more about their egos and predictions than the success of the team.

I love the guy, and don't think wanting him to remain has anything at all to do with my ego. I happen to think you don't make precipitous coaching changes, and, as I've said in this thread, there are always good coaches available and no reason to think Payton himself won't be available next year or sometime soon thereafter.

I know it makes a nicer story if the guys who don't agree with a position are all deluded, but sometimes there really are decent reasons on both sides of a debate. It's what makes debates interesting.

 

[Hostile]

I already said I think it's a longshot myself. One way or another, I suspect he's back in New Orleans.

The real issue is the people who wouldn't prefer him if he becomes available. And no, it's not offended, more like mystified.

But like bird said, to some people it's more about their egos and predictions than the success of the team.

Yeah, he was wrong. So are you. Have a great evening though.

 

[Howardlittleton64]

No matter who the Coach in Dallas is he won't have success with Mr. Jones and company in charge of football operations. He won't be allowed to being in his own staff. He'll have the owner/GM contradicting him in the media. That same owner/GM will go get players he wants regardless of what the coach says. He'll have a front office that has no idea or plan on how to build a team.

 

[Hostile]

So....your saying there is a chance.

It sound like you're downright giddy either that we won't be upgrading severely in the coaching department or Garrett will be keeping his job which one is it?

Giddy? More like amused that self professed "realists" are engaged in such a fantasy.

 

[Idgit]

No matter who the Coach in Dallas is he won't have success with Mr. Jones and company in charge of football operations. He won't be allowed to being in his own staff. He'll have the owner/GM contradicting him in the media. That same owner/GM will go get players he wants regardless of what the coach says. He'll have a front office that has no idea or plan on how to build a team.

Don't forget 'a fanbase with a serious persecution complex.'

 

[Howardlittleton64]

Don't forget 'a fanbase with a serious persecution complex.'

 

[CATCH17]

So....your saying there is a chance.

It sound like you're downright giddy either that we won't be upgrading severely in the coaching department or Garrett will be keeping his job which one is it?

Just because Payton signs back doesn't mean Garrett keeps his job.

Ill be borderline shocked if he goes 8-8 or 7-9 and keeps his job.

 

[dfan32]

Also Sean Payton has 7 mill on the table right now from the Saints. They are ready to make him the highest paid coach in the league and he still hasnt signed.

Not to 'weigh in' on this discussion but if Sean Peyton is suspended from any contact with the Saints organization, how could he sign it?

 

[theebs]

I know, you're right. Sad and strange, isn't it?

But you'd think that even people who were on the Garrett bandwagon would see that he isn't the next Tom Landry, or even a good coach.

Well, some like theebs have seen the weight of the evidence and have changed their opinions, but others with bigger egos can't do that.

And even if you think Garrett is a "good" head coach -- which is pretty much impossible to argue -- wouldn't you still upgrade if you had the chance?

The only thing different between this team and the 2002 campo team is romo.

I mean honestly, this team right now is as poorly run as that one and I would take Zimmer over rob Ryan everyday of the week.

Oh I guess that team actually beat Washington on thanksgiving so that is one other difference.

In 2002 we lost four straight in December to finish the year, I have a feeling that Could happen again.

Everyone loves to goof on campo, right now we are seeing the same level of poor coaching and incompetence. The difference? Romo is coercing up a lot of crap and we are just a touch better than those campo teams right now.

It's just sad.

 

[Kilyin]

The only thing I'll say about Payton to Dallas is I do believe the reports that this is the one place he'd consider leaving New Orleans for.

Other than that, sorry....I just don't believe it's going to happen. I think it would take an epic collapse to make Jerry give up on Garrett after two years. He's only ever done that with Chan Gailey and he said he regrets it.

Jerry is a lot older now. He also fired Gailey after a 10-6 and 8-8 season, and Gailey made it to the playoffs both seasons. This isn't gonna be a 10-6 season, maybe not an 8-8 either, and we aren't going to make the playoffs, if I were a betting man.

That being said, I don't see it happening either. We're stuck with the Garrett.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Just because Payton signs back doesn't mean Garrett keeps his job.

Same here, I still think Holmgren is a possibility.