If there is a surprise cut, look at the starting safeties

[Vinnie2u]

I miss the GOAT Jeff Heath

 

[Pass2Run]

Eberflus scheme calls for basically two, coverage free safeties that possess good range and strong reaction skills. Wilson is more of your traditional box safety that struggles in coverage. Hooker just never around the football as his reaction skills are very limited.

For what they are paying both to be, they are going to need better production to justify their cost. I really don't think there would be a big drop off from them and their backups who make a fraction of their cost.

We've been developing Thomas and Bell a few years now for both. If I'm not mistaken, they came in the same year. I've liked Thomas since they signed him UDFA. Good player that didn't cost a whole lot because he played on teams while they developed him.

 

[Pass2Run]

I miss the GOAT Jeff Heath

Heath had some good games, but some bad ones too.

 

[Pass2Run]

When his back is turned to the QB, he is as bad as Roy Williams was in coverage.

Williams should have been a LB, imo.

But I really did like the hit he put on Emmitt.

 

[conner01]

These safeties support the changes in the current scheme well. Upgrade individually from there.

Agree. I think they fit the scheme but shouldn’t be worse be upgraded when you can

 

[gimmesix]

Our safety play last season took a big step back:

-Wilson was almost unplayable early in the season. Very undisciplined against the run was a liability in man coverage and missed a ton of tackles.

-Hooker wasn't much better. Him being the free safety, you rarely saw him around the football, seems always a tick slow to react. Like Wilson struggled taking the right angles and tackling in space.

Both players signed big extensions where there is an out in each contract this season. They did resign Bell and Thomas to lower extensions and even spent the most undrafted fa dollars at the position. Both starters aren't locks to remain with the team and are poor fits in Eberflus defensive scheme. This is something to keep our eyes on, perhaps one is used as trade bait.

I just don't see it. You've got to have depth and we've essentially got four safeties who can play. Mukuamu has never shown that he can be a starting safety.

This seems a lot like fans saying watch out for DJ Reader to be traded from Detroit because the Lions have three other quality defensive tackles.

Teams carry at least four at both those positions, so why would you want to unnecessarily weaken your depth? The return would have to make it worthwhile and I just don't see us getting much in return.

It also makes no sense financially to cut Hooker since it costs us $7.7 million to keep him and $9.5 million to cut him. An argument could be made for cutting Wilson if he falls to a backup role because it would save $5 million, but again, you end up with no depth in case of injury. There will be times we'll have three (possibly even four) safeties on the field together, so don't go throwing out our depth.

 

[gimmesix]

They did show interest with the Texas Safety so that could be a tell that they want to upgrade the position.

And we should do that next season. We can't do it now. All I want is an open competition where if Bell and Thomas are better, then they get the majority of the playing time.

Even if that happens, I think we'd still use Wilson as a dime linebacker or move Bell there and put Hooker in.

 

[gimmesix]

Not sure they would overhaul the position, but dealing one away would make sense, perhaps for a position of need to a team needing a safety

Who you going to play at safety if Bell gets hurt again? What about Thomas, he's missed some time, too? You really want to put Mukuamu out there if there's an injury?

I'm for mix and match at safety, so the more we have who can play, the better we can do that. And then if we have an injury, we don't have a steep fall-off.

 

[krs1bro]

It seems to me that there are players on this team are just rouge and disengaged from whatever game plan is in place for that week. Very easy to identify these players as the DC forum can call out. I would rather have a young "team" player that the staff can work with. Wilson will make a play occasionally, but they are few and far between as we have all witnessed. Time to identify and move on from these players that don't play as a unit. Offense included (T. Steal) comes to mind also.

 

[chagus]

I hope they cut Hooker and Wilson

Oh? Then what?

 

[Zekeats]

Both players play very well especially for us not having any true inside pocket pressure. These safeties are vastly underappreciated by the same fan base that tells us Dak is top 5.

 

[Cowboyny]

Who you going to play at safety if Bell gets hurt again? What about Thomas, he's missed some time, too? You really want to put Mukuamu out there if there's an injury?

I'm for mix and match at safety, so the more we have who can play, the better we can do that. And then if we have an injury, we don't have a steep fall-off.

They did use their most undrafted fa dollars on a safety, that usually means he has a very good chance of making the roster. As you mentioned you still have Muku as well, if they would release or trade a starting safety still would have the necessary depth at the position. I am not sold on either starter, they have to prove they are the best options in camp to keep their starting jobs.

In my opinion, safety is a very sneaky need next offseason.

 

[Cowboyny]

And we should do that next season. We can't do it now. All I want is an open competition where if Bell and Thomas are better, then they get the majority of the playing time.

Even if that happens, I think we'd still use Wilson as a dime linebacker or move Bell there and put Hooker in.

I think the days of playing a safety at linebacker left as soon as Quinn departed in any capacity.

 

[Cowboyny]

I just don't see it. You've got to have depth and we've essentially got four safeties who can play. Mukuamu has never shown that he can be a starting safety.

This seems a lot like fans saying watch out for DJ Reader to be traded from Detroit because the Lions have three other quality defensive tackles.

Teams carry at least four at both those positions, so why would you want to unnecessarily weaken your depth? The return would have to make it worthwhile and I just don't see us getting much in return.

It also makes no sense financially to cut Hooker since it costs us $7.7 million to keep him and $9.5 million to cut him. An argument could be made for cutting Wilson if he falls to a backup role because it would save $5 million, but again, you end up with no depth in case of injury. There will be times we'll have three (possibly even four) safeties on the field together, so don't go throwing out our depth.

I disagree on the depth as I view Wilson/Hooker as marginal starters that are easily replaced. Eberflus is going to be playing a ton of split safety looks, that isn't a strength of Donovan Wilson who is best inside the box. Even is zone coverage Wilson remains a liability. Hooker just is very slow to react and rarely around the football.

 

[Cowboyny]

Williams should have been a LB, imo.

But I really did like the hit he put on Emmitt.

Once Giants/Shockey exposed him in coverage, his career was over!

 

[Cowboyny]

We've been developing Thomas and Bell a few years now for both. If I'm not mistaken, they came in the same year. I've liked Thomas since they signed him UDFA. Good player that didn't cost a whole lot because he played on teams while they developed him.

Thomas is our only true hybrid safety on the roster, can play either spot and has legitimate coverage abilities. If given a legitimate chance, I think he wins a starting job. Even view him as a possible slot corner in this defense.

 

[Jarntt]

Our safety play last season took a big step back:

-Wilson was almost unplayable early in the season. Very undisciplined against the run was a liability in man coverage and missed a ton of tackles.

-Hooker wasn't much better. Him being the free safety, you rarely saw him around the football, seems always a tick slow to react. Like Wilson struggled taking the right angles and tackling in space.

Both players signed big extensions where there is an out in each contract this season. They did resign Bell and Thomas to lower extensions and even spent the most undrafted fa dollars at the position. Both starters aren't locks to remain with the team and are poor fits in Eberflus defensive scheme. This is something to keep our eyes on, perhaps one is used as trade bait.

I suspect a lot are going to disagree with this, but I totally agree with you. Neither is worth anywhere near their cap hit and that's what it comes down to. The NFL is about constantly trying to upgrade your talent. For a couple years now the warts have been showing and that is an issue when you carry a big cap hit. We should have been looking at signing a safety and paying for it by cutting our guys. Wilson post 6/1 cut saves $7M this year. Hooker doesn't save money this year (we don't need it this year) but saves you his $9M cap hit next year.
Our backups better get more snaps this year. The idea of Wilson playing in any pure passing situation is mind boggling to me. Run downs? Sure. Then get his butt off the field.

 

[Cowboyny]

I suspect a lot are going to disagree with this, but I totally agree with you. Neither is worth anywhere near their cap hit and that's what it comes down to. The NFL is about constantly trying to upgrade your talent. For a couple years now the warts have been showing and that is an issue when you carry a big cap hit. We should have been looking at signing a safety and paying for it by cutting our guys. Wilson post 6/1 cut saves $7M this year. Hooker doesn't save money this year (we don't need it this year) but saves you his $9M cap hit next year.
Our backups better get more snaps this year. The idea of Wilson playing in any pure passing situation is mind boggling to me. Run downs? Sure. Then get his butt off the field.

In my opinion, there are both marginal starters where their loss production can be replaced.

Wilson is a big hitter, but he is so reckless and undisciplined. We need to move away from these types of players. They hurt you more, then they help you.

Hooker offers more to the position cause he does have coverage abilities and is solid in run support. He just needs to trigger a little quicker.

There are actually some older fa's still available who are worth a camp invite: Simmons, Blackmon (played with Eberflus), Marcus Williams, Marcus Maye, Diggs, etc.

 

[gimmesix]

They did use their most undrafted fa dollars on a safety, that usually means he has a very good chance of making the roster. As you mentioned you still have Muku as well, if they would release or trade a starting safety still would have the necessary depth at the position. I am not sold on either starter, they have to prove they are the best options in camp to keep their starting jobs.

In my opinion, safety is a very sneaky need next offseason.

If someone steps up and outplays them, I'd be fine with it, but I think that's wishful thinking. Right now, Hooker and Wilson are clearly among our top four safeties.

 

[gimmesix]

I think the days of playing a safety at linebacker left as soon as Quinn departed in any capacity.

It isn't just Quinn. Most teams play a safety as one of its two linebackers in certain looks where a pass is probable. The problem we had under Quinn is that we ended up playing a safety at linebacker in every situation after we lost LVE to injury.