ILBs, MIKEs, Green Dots and Unicorns

[speedkilz88]

That would be Justin Barron and he’s had a good camp! It will come down to him or Shemar James. I think Barron has momentum

James has been the 4th ILB all through camp. If the coaches like Barron he will make it as the 5th ILB. Five ILBs is normal.

 

[Kwyn]

Gave ya likes earlier but wanted to give thanks for all this stuff. I’ve been watching this game for 50 years but this is helpful in understanding the new system. I never played at all, even at the lowest of levels.

I know right? I’m far from any kind of expert and these long posts I make about this, the cap or Parker’s safety schemes are more to help me learn stuff that I didn’t and getting it down helps me understand.

I’m jsut waiting for this to blow up on me and have Barham get the dot, winters get pushed to the bench, Overshown get injured and finally end up with Downs having to play closer to the box because he’s the only one that Parker trusts to wear the green dot.

Anyway thanks and I’m glad you found it helpful.

 

[xwalker]

So, who are our starting LBs?

Parker isn’t married to the traditional thumper in the middle, and that’s why I’m pretty confident that Overshown will end end up as the starting SS ILB, functioning as the MIKE. Winters will be the starting WIL.

Overshown is a converted safety who still often looks like one, which is not ideal for an ILB, but he’s gifted physically and he’s fast.

When we play teams like the Niners or Lions, who run a lot of heavy personnel, it could get ugly because he’ll be vulnerable to linemen climbing through the line of scrimmage and putting a hurt on him.

Barham or Winters, when they are on the field with him, might be asked to stuff the A-gaps to keep him from getting pounded on every running play, but that is risky in and of itself. Trying to hide your strong side ILB is usually asking for trouble.

So, if thats the case, how do we get Barham on the field 50%-60% of the snaps?

You put him in on 1st and 10 or 2nd/3rd and short opposite Gary or Eze and in place of whichever one is resting.

Houston or Miller will rotate in on obvious passing downs like 3rd-and-long and in those situations, Barham goes to the bench.

Remember, we are a front seven by committee. There are only a couple of players who will be on the field 80% of the snaps.

They don't hide LBs in this scheme.

They play 3-4 vs heavy offensive personnel.

They squeeze these 3 between the OTs:
Otito Ogbonnia 6-4, 320
Kenny Clark 6-3, 314
Quinnen Williams 6-3, 303

OLBs
Rashan Gary 6-5, 275
Eze 6-2, 255

 

[xwalker]

I know right? I’m far from any kind of expert and these long posts I make about this, the cap or Parker’s safety schemes are more to help me learn stuff that I didn’t and getting it down helps me understand.

I’m jsut waiting for this to blow up on me and have Barham get the dot, winters get pushed to the bench, Overshown get injured and finally end up with Downs having to play closer to the box because he’s the only one that Parker trusts to wear the green dot.

Anyway thanks and I’m glad you found it helpful.

Downs often played in a 5-1-5 in college.
- He replaced one of the ILBs.
- Basically the Nickel version of a 3-4.

Parker will eventually run some 5-1-5.

 

[Xizor]

Wrapping up …

The bottom line is that we don’t actually have the prototype for this role, but Parker is betting that we don’t need one.

He is banking on speed, both physically and schematically, over traditional size. Mix in a healthy dose of deception and that’s a scheme that Vic Fangio would heartily endorse. Zack Baun is what Parker needs Overshown to become asap. A lean, fast, sideline to sideline playmaker who runs the defense.

If the D-line keeps our group of hybrid LBs clean to fly around and make plays, they can smother modern spread offenses and Parker will look like a genius

But … if physical offenses like Shanahan’s or Campbell’s force us into a phone-booth knife fight, the lack of a true, heavy thumper could turn the defense into an all-you-can-eat buffet.

In the crazy world of NFL gamesmanship, the next offensive trend could be more of those “heavy” sets which will make life difficult for what we’re building, but you can’t have it all, all of the time.

In a true fantasy, this ideal player is a guy who moves like Overshown, thinks like Downs, and smashes like Barham.

If Barham matures and learns and grows like the most optimistic fans hope, then who knows, maybe next year he ends up as the SS ILB MIKE with the Dot and Overshown moves to WIL with Winters becoming a backup if the team retains him.

Then, maybe Barham turns into a unicorn.

Great knowledgable stuff. Much appreciated!

 

[Kwyn]

Great knowledgable stuff. Much appreciated!

I couldn’t even make intern at an NFL front office but i am curious by nature.

There are some questionable takes in there but you get what you pay for

 

[gimmesix]

Downs often played in a 5-1-5 in college.
- He replaced one of the ILBs.
- Basically the Nickel version of a 3-4.

Parker will eventually run some 5-1-5.

Yeah. I think we'll mainly be 4-2-5 just because of offensive alignment, but we should expect to see the 3-4/5-2 and 5-1-5. I think the one thing we can expect is not to see much or any 4-3.

 

[jazzcat22]

Barham. I like the name, Bam Bam, big dog named him.

A reporter is Scotty's PC yesterday, called Barham ... Barhammer.

 

[jazzcat22]

From the OP

What we’ll have in our base 3-4 is a pair of ILBs. One on the strong side (the side with the most offensive players) and one on the weak side (WIL). The two OLBs aren’t really linebackers at all despite being the “1” and the “4” of the LBs.

This is the way I see it being more as well, over a traditional 3-4. Which I never really cared for.

This is what SF, and Dallas more or less ran, with Charles Haley. They called it the Elephant Position.
Even though he was technically an OLB, he still was on. the LOS as a DE.

 

[LouBrown]

There's no really such thing as an OLB in the NFL anymore - so I agree that there's just ILBs and Edges - but there is still a pretty defined MIKE who will have A-gap responsibilities.

Generally, the other LB will be more of a strong side player while the safety or nickel rolls into the weakside.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I had also initially assumed he was the best fit simply because of his student of the game approach and because he’ll be on the field all the time.

The more I looked around the league and dug up some history of the green dot I talked myself out of it

There are a few factors that work against him.

• The simple fact that while the green dot talks to everyone in the field, their most critical function is making line calls to the front seven and to do this he needs to be close to the line of scrimmage on every olay, playing the box safety role most of the time
• It limits the safety from being able to play single high shell or play a center fielder role. If he does, he’s 15 yards off the LOS and being able to get his voice commands to the front seven is just a logistical problem
• With that in mind it limits Downs from being as diverse and flexible as Parker needs him to be. Parker’s going to use a lot of deception and that includes lots of “motion” in the defense, mainly from the safeties. Having Downs drop down out of a two high shell into the box or out to the right, messes with the quarterback
• Downs is a rookie and he’s currently learning three complete playbooks, Safety, CB and LB. It’s a lot. A whole lot. Combining learning three playbooks as having the dot is probably too much.

There are a few rookies who will likely get the green dot but they are all linebackers and don’t have any of the issues that Downs would have, particularly the fact they just have one playbook. Kendall Daniel’s will get it and Sonny Styles is the plan in Washington. Maybe Jacob Rodroguez if Jordyn Brooks nagging injuries opens the door. Eventually they did draft Rodriguez to wear the dot but Brooks being a bit limited in preseason has opened the door to speeding up the process.

Safeties who have had the green dot tend to be veterans who have ridiculously fast processing and/or are in the box. Derwin James had done it for the Chargers and Eric Weddle was the gold standard for the Chargers and them was brought out of retirement to do it for the Rams.

What he will do is be the “Safety Echo”. He’ll get the call from the green dot in the huddle (who’s gettitng it through the headset) or from a hand signal at the line. He then verbally directs all of the DBs.

He absolutely could do wear the green dot, and be great at it, but for the reasons above I think it’s unlikely this year,

I was just gonna say You need the dot in the middle of the defense...not only to commincate but to do LOS reads for future plays.

But yes...a crafty vet Safety who knows the players and systems...and opposing offense...could do it to. Let's not push Downs just yet. He still has things to learn.

 

[LouBrown]

I had also initially assumed he was the best fit simply because of his student of the game approach and because he’ll be on the field all the time.

I agree with everything you've said here but the reality is that the green dot has to be able to communicate with the DL. A safety can't do that.

I don't even know how a nickel possibly could when a DT in the opposite B-gap would be 15 yards away.