In order to win the division...

Homerun Trot

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The Giants are going to have to lose 2 out of the next 3. It doesn't look good IMO, because after we thrash the Skins, they'll probably be too demoralized to put up a fight, and the Raiders just lost to the Jets with Tuiasosopo starting.
 

TunaFan33

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Homerun Trot said:
The Giants are going to have to lose 2 out of the next 3. It doesn't look good IMO, because after we thrash the Skins, they'll probably be too demoralized to put up a fight, and the Raiders just lost to the Jets with Tuiasosopo starting.

Sans Pierce, and their 2 Tackles, my gut tells me it's the Gints of us 3 that'll crash and burn.

I really like our chances at at least a Wild Card. That Chiefs game was really a confidence builder.

The Skins have been the "nine lives" team of the NFL this season. My gut tells me they'll get a playoff birth.
 

The30YardSlant

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If we win out, and the Giants lose to Washington, we win the division

If we win out, and the Giants lose to KC and Oakland, we win the division

If we lose one, we wont win the division
 

Homerun Trot

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HeavyHitta31 said:
If we win out, and the Giants lose to Washington, we win the division

If we win out, and the Giants lose to KC and Oakland, we win the division

If we lose one, we wont win the division

No, I'm pretty sure if we win out, and the Giants go 2-1, the 1 being Wash, we'd be tied in overall and division record. The next tiebreaker is pct in common games, and the Giants would have us in that.
 

TheSkaven

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If the Skins beat the Giants, we're tied on division record and then it goes to common opponents. We would be 3-3 and they would be 4-2, so no matter how you cut it, they need to lose two games. It doesn't look good.
 

bula

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NO NO NO.

You're forgetting conf record. We win out and skins beat giants, we have a better conf record. That precedes common oppts in tiebreaker. We win division.
 

bula

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ok .. my bad. I double checked. common oppts does come before conf record. disregard.
 

chinch

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our loss to the giants last week pretty much eliminated us from winning the division unless they collapse given our loss to the skins week 2 and NYG playing philly 2x without a starting QB.
 

jksmith269

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If you want to be optamistic Manning has thrown (I think) 5 int's in the last two games to 1 Td. Now throw that against the skins D and the G men are in trouble. I think they lose to KC this week and beat the raiders in the last week. they will go 1-2 in the last 3
 

followthestar

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I have a strong feeling that the Giants will lose 2 of 3 - first of all the Chiefs will take them apart. then the Skins will be pissed at getting beaten by us and will take revenge on the Giants. even if the skins can't get it done, the Raiders have the WRs and QB to put up points and win. just a feeling i have...
 

Doomsday101

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I think if Dallas runs the table they will win the NFC East. Giants in my opinion are about to take a fall in large part because of a shaky Eli Manning who has been throwing a lot of passes up from grabs late in games.
 

DBoys

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Giants have quite a few key people hurt and Eli has like 7 INT's in the last 3 games.
 

Homerun Trot

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I don't know, I hope you guys are right, Jerry seems to agree, but I'm skeptical the Skins can beat the Giants once they're eliminated, and did you hear about the Raider's game this Sunday? They got crushed by easily one of the worst teams in football.
 

Homerun Trot

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BTW, if we were able to win the division, we would have a legit shot at the 2 seed, and a first round bye. Chicago would have to lose 2 of 3 (Atlanta, @GB, @Min), and Tampa would have to lose to Atlanta (or NO),
 

texastwister

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How big is the extra home game going to be in all of this. I think Paul messed up and I hope Jerry makes him pay if this plays out and hurts us.
 

vicjagger

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O.K., here's my spin on it, although some of you may want to refresh your coffee first:

I've done a spreadsheet on all of the possible combinations of wins & losses for the Cowboys, Giants and Commanders. I then analysed each possibility for tie-breakers (2 teams only). This is the result of the Dallas-NY Giants comparison in the race for NFC East supremacy.

Dallas and NY do not play each other again this year, so there are a total of 64 different combinations of Ws & Ls possible (I refer to them as scenarios). Each team has 8 and I numbered them like this:

1) W-W-W
2) W-W-L
3) W-L-W
4) L-W-W
5) L-L-W
6) L-W-L
7) W-L-L
8) L-L-L

I then use the comination of the numbers to represent a single scenario, listing the team currently ranked higher in the standings first. Therefore scenario 5-3 would have NY loosing their next 2 and winning the last, while Dallas wins 2 of 3, loosing at Carolina. More on that later.

Again, there are 64 scenarios, from 1-1 to 8-8. 75% of those scenarios can be described as follows:

"The Giants win at least 2 of 3, and the Cowboys loose at least 2 of 3, or both" In all of these 48 scenarios, the Giants would win the divsion. In 42 of the scenarios, the Giants would finish with a better overall record. In the remaining 6, the two teams would finish tied at either 11-5, or 9-7, but the Giants would own all tie-breakers.

Now onto the other 16 scenarios (25% of the total). In 7 scenarios, Dallas would win the division based upon the better overall record at 11-5, or 10-6. Described as follows:

" The NY Giants loose all 3 games, and the Cowboys win any 2 (or more) of 3; or The Cowboys win all 3 games, and the Giants loose any 2 (or more) of their 3."

Finally we are left with 9 scenarios that could lead to the teams finishing tied at 10-6. Those scenarios would be represented by the combinations beginning with 5-6-7 (again, the Giants are first), and ending with 2-3-4.

7 of these 9, including any with a win by NY over Wash, or a Loss by Dallas to Wash, gives the Giants the tie-breaker.

That leaves 2 magical scenarios, the aforementioned 5-3 and 7-3. Each of these scenarios would leave the 2 teams tied at the overall, head-to-head, division, common and conference games level and would then go onto the next tie-breaker "Stength of Victory" (SOV).

The scenarios can be described as: "Dallas looses only to Carolina, while the Giants loose to Washington and either KC or Oak." In Scenario 7-3 the Giants beat KC and loose to Oakland, while in 5-3 they loose to KC and beat Oakland. You decide which scenario is more likely between the 2, but I personally feel 5-3 is a REAL POSSIBILITY! I can easily see it happening.

In either of these scenarios, you have to look at the 10 teams each team had beaten. In 5-3, 7 of the 10 wins would "cancel each other out", while in 7-3, 8 of 10 would. In both scenarios Dallas would need wins by SD and DET (to improve their SOV), while the Giants would be rooting for DEN and NO. Scenario 5-3 would also add KC for Dallas and OAK for the Giants.

Going into the last few weeks the Giants would project to own a very slight Stength of Victory advantage (+1 win) in scenario 7-3, while Dallas has a stronger advantage in scenario 5-3 (+3 wins).

Also worth noting, SD & KC still play each other, as do SD & DEN and OAK & DEN. Also DET plays at NO on X-Mas eve. All of these games could figure into the SOV tie-breaker. Please note my SOV calculations are assuming wins over certains teams by NY/DAL, but not wins by those teams over others remaining on their schedules. (As I write this Dallas has the SOV edge .433 to .419). For more info, see here: http://www.nfl.com/standings/conference

So, if the Giants loose the next 2, and we win at Wash next week, we'd only need to beat STL at home on New Years to win the Division. The Carolina game wouldn't matter. That my friends is the path of least resistance to an NFC East crown!
 

dboyz

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Nice work, Vic.

I'm still hoping for a division title. It may not be likely but still certainly possible.
 

Homerun Trot

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vicjagger said:
O.K., here's my spin on it, although some of you may want to refresh your coffee first:

I've done a spreadsheet on all of the possible combinations of wins & losses for the Cowboys, Giants and Commanders. I then analysed each possibility for tie-breakers (2 teams only). This is the result of the Dallas-NY Giants comparison in the race for NFC East supremacy.

Dallas and NY do not play each other again this year, so there are a total of 64 different combinations of Ws & Ls possible (I refer to them as scenarios). Each team has 8 and I numbered them like this:

1) W-W-W
2) W-W-L
3) W-L-W
4) L-W-W
5) L-L-W
6) L-W-L
7) W-L-L
8) L-L-L

I then use the comination of the numbers to represent a single scenario, listing the team currently ranked higher in the standings first. Therefore scenario 5-3 would have NY loosing their next 2 and winning the last, while Dallas wins 2 of 3, loosing at Carolina. More on that later.

Again, there are 64 scenarios, from 1-1 to 8-8. 75% of those scenarios can be described as follows:

"The Giants win 2 of 3, and the Cowboys loose 2 of 3, or both" In all of these 48 scenarios, the Giants would win the divsion. In 42 of the scenarios, the Giants would finish with a better overall record. In the remaining 6, the two teams would finish tied at either 11-5, or 9-7, but the Giants would own all tie-breakers.

Now onto the other 16 scenarios (25% of the total). In 7 scenarios, Dallas would win the division based upon the better overall record at 11-5, or 10-6. Described as follows:

" The NY Giants loose all 3 games, and the Cowboys win any 2 (or more) of 3; or The Cowboys win all 3 games, and the Giants loose any 2 (or more) of their 3."

Finally we are left with 9 scenarios that could lead to the teams finishing tied at 10-6. Those scenarios would be represented by the combinations beginning with 5-6-7 (again, the Giants are first), and ending with 2-3-4.

7 of these 9, including any with a win by NY over Wash, or a Loss by Dallas to Wash, gives the Giants the tie-breaker.

That leaves 2 magical scenarios, the aforementioned 5-3 and 7-3. Each of these scenarios would leave the 2 teams tied at the overall, head-to-head, division, common and conference games level and would then go onto the next tie-breaker "Stength of Victory" (SOV).

The scenarios can be described as: "Dallas looses only to Carolina, while the Giants loose to Washington and either KC or Oak." In Scenario 7-3 the Giants beat KC and loose to Oakland, while in 5-3 they loose to KC and beat Oakland. You decide which scenario is more likely between the 2, but I personally feel 5-3 is a REAL POSSIBILITY! I can easily see it happening.

In either of these scenarios, you have to look at the 10 teams each team had beaten. In 5-3, 7 of the 10 wins would "cancel each other out", while in 7-3, 8 of 10 would. In both scenarios Dallas would need wins by SD and DET (to improve their SOV), while the Giants would be rooting for DEN and NO. Scenario 5-3 would also add KC for Dallas and OAK for the Giants.

Going into the last few weeks the Giants would project to own a very slight Stength of Victory advantage (+1 win) in scenario 7-3, while Dallas has a stronger advantage in scenario 5-3 (+3 wins).

Also worth noting, SD & KC still play each other, as do SD & DEN and OAK & DEN. Also DET plays at NO on X-Mas eve. All of these games could figure into the SOV tie-breaker. Please note my SOV calculations are assuming wins over certains teams by NY/DAL, but not wins by those teams over others remaining on their schedules. (As I write this Dallas has the SOV edge .433 to .419). For more info, see here: http://www.nfl.com/standings/conference

So, if the Giants loose the next 2, and we win at Wash next week, we'd only need to beat STL at home on New Years to win the Division. The Carolina game wouldn't matter. That my friends is the path of least resistance to an NFC East crown!

good post. thanks.
 
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