Interesting Breer nugget on the impact of Vic Fangio's defensive scheme around the league

Hawkeye0202

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Interesting coz someone mentioned in another thread Dak struggles with zone coverage.............

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/11/14/examining-buffalo-bills-problems

• As for trends, I am planning on diving into that more in the coming days, but one that I thought was really interesting, raised by an NFC exec, was the effect that the spread of Vic Fangio’s defensive scheme has had on the NFL.
According to this team’s numbers, heading into Week 10, NFL defenses were playing zone coverage 71% of the time, and with two high safeties 41% of time—both of those numbers stood as all-time highs for as long as this stuff’s been recorded. That, in turn, has led to fewer yards per play, fewer big plays, and, ultimately, less scoring, with teams forced to work the ball down the field more methodically (which limits possessions and shortens the game).
How much less scoring? Well, again, going into Week 10, it was 21.7 points per team per game, the fifth-lowest total since 2000, and the lowest, period, since ’05.




Jan 29, 2023; Kansas City, Missouri, USA; Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Willie Gay (50) reacts after a play against the Cincinnati Bengals during the second quarter of the AFC Championship game at GEHA Field at Arrowhead Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Denny Medley-USA TODAY Sports
 

Hawkeye0202

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According to this team’s numbers, heading into Week 10, NFL defenses were playing zone coverage 71% of the time, and with two high safeties 41% of time—both of those numbers stood as all-time highs for as long as this stuff’s been recorded. That, in turn, has led to fewer yards per play, fewer big plays,
For context, consider the nugget in another thread where Cee Dee is leading all WRs 20+ yard plays..........
 

Aven8

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I agree and I think are already starting to see the return of the run game to counter act the deep zones. Tough to have a heavy box and deep safeties at the same time.
Most of the teams in the league have gone away from the sideline to sideline LB bulldogs that use to rule the day as well, due to the passers in todays game. But then they struggle against power running teams like Philly last year.

That’s why SF LB’s are special. They are old school LB’s that can also cover.

I still think that’s the only thing missing with this team. At least one stud MLB.
 

thunderpimp91

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Most of the teams in the league have gone away from the sideline to sideline LB bulldogs that use to rule the day as well, due to the passers in todays game. But then they struggle against power running teams like Philly last year.

That’s why SF LB’s are special. They are old school LB’s that can also cover.

I still think that’s the only thing missing with this team. At least one stud MLB.
I think that is spot on and to be honest we are starting to see the league transition back to valuing LBs and the interior DL too. Problem is that in college all of those 6'4" 250 Brian Urlacher type guys that used to be prototype MLBs are being asked to either rush the passer from the EDGE or go play TE.
 

Hawkeye0202

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I think that is spot on and to be honest we are starting to see the league transition back to valuing LBs and the interior DL too. Problem is that in college all of those 6'4" 250 Brian Urlacher type guys that used to be prototype MLBs are being asked to either rush the passer from the EDGE or go play TE.
Yep we used the 2023 on the position for the first time in over 20 years. Hell, the Commanders traded both their DE and kept DTs
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Interesting coz someone mentioned in another thread Dak struggles with zone coverage.............

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/11/14/examining-buffalo-bills-problems

• As for trends, I am planning on diving into that more in the coming days, but one that I thought was really interesting, raised by an NFC exec, was the effect that the spread of Vic Fangio’s defensive scheme has had on the NFL.
According to this team’s numbers, heading into Week 10, NFL defenses were playing zone coverage 71% of the time, and with two high safeties 41% of time—both of those numbers stood as all-time highs for as long as this stuff’s been recorded. That, in turn, has led to fewer yards per play, fewer big plays, and, ultimately, less scoring, with teams forced to work the ball down the field more methodically (which limits possessions and shortens the game).
How much less scoring? Well, again, going into Week 10, it was 21.7 points per team per game, the fifth-lowest total since 2000, and the lowest, period, since ’05.




Jan 29, 2023; Kansas City, Missouri, USA; Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Willie Gay (50) reacts after a play against the Cincinnati Bengals during the second quarter of the AFC Championship game at GEHA Field at Arrowhead Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Denny Medley-USA TODAY Sports
its par for the course. NFL adjusts rules, give DCs time and they adjust and figure out how to slow it down and what type of players they need and then NFL adjusts or offenses adjust. we might see a resurrection of west coast offense with short passes and YAC. call it dink and dunk, but its what the defense gives you.
 

CCBoy

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Most of the teams in the league have gone away from the sideline to sideline LB bulldogs that use to rule the day as well, due to the passers in todays game. But then they struggle against power running teams like Philly last year.

That’s why SF LB’s are special. They are old school LB’s that can also cover.

I still think that’s the only thing missing with this team. At least one stud MLB.
A single great linebacker, not just super fast, is the best tie-in between the defensive line and secondary and pushes to the sidelines most of every thing else. He's worth his weight in gold on function.
 

SackMaster

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And people tried to argue that teams weren't playing two high safeties against the Cowboys most of the time. Obviously not every down, but most downs, they were keeping both safeties back to keep the big play in check.

To me, that's why the lack of a running game has been so disappointing. Teams are playing back AND stopping the run against us.
:angry:
 

CCBoy

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And people tried to argue that teams weren't playing two high safeties against the Cowboys most of the time. Obviously not every down, but most downs, they were keeping both safeties back to keep the big play in check.

To me, that's why the lack of a running game has been so disappointing. Teams are playing back AND stopping the run against us.
:angry:
That hand at the gambling table is being challenged by more chips on the table and better hands. The opponent now better be carrying a real bucket full to keep up now.
 

gimmesix

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I agree and I think are already starting to see the return of the run game to counter act the deep zones. Tough to have a heavy box and deep safeties at the same time.
Yeah, you beat zone by running through light boxes and with good pass protection against four-man fronts to give WRs time to settle into the windows. Neither of those things have been consistent for us.
 

gimmesix

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its par for the course. NFL adjusts rules, give DCs time and they adjust and figure out how to slow it down and what type of players they need and then NFL adjusts or offenses adjust. we might see a resurrection of west coast offense with short passes and YAC. call it dink and dunk, but its what the defense gives you.
This is essentially what McCarthy is trying to do, have a short, quick passing game that causes those safeties to cheat up and opens up the deeper stuff. At the start of the season, we weren't transitioning well from the short game to the long one. The last few games, we've done a much better job of that. I think a lot of it was the learning curve in implementing more West Coast principles. I think our next countermove will be more passes to the backs when defenses stay back to keep from being beaten deep. We can't get the running game going, but a quick checkdown to Pollard can be just as effective.
 

joseephuss

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This is essentially what McCarthy is trying to do, have a short, quick passing game that causes those safeties to cheat up and opens up the deeper stuff. At the start of the season, we weren't transitioning well from the short game to the long one. The last few games, we've done a much better job of that. I think a lot of it was the learning curve in implementing more West Coast principles. I think our next countermove will be more passes to the backs when defenses stay back to keep from being beaten deep. We can't get the running game going, but a quick checkdown to Pollard can be just as effective.
A wheel route to a running back is a nice weapon to utilize.
 

Awakened

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A single great linebacker, not just super fast, is the best tie-in between the defensive line and secondary and pushes to the sidelines most of every thing else. He's worth his weight in gold on function.
Overshown?
 

gimmesix

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A wheel route to a running back is a nice weapon to utilize.
It is, but I think wheel routes work better against man coverage. If the back can draw a one-on-one with a linebacker, he can win that. If it's two-deep, then a safety is going to be waiting back to help with whatever route goes deep. Now, if you can use the receivers to pull both safeties to the same side of the field, you can get it to work, but there's going to be a lot of passing off to avoid that.
 

gimmesix

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Overshown?
Overshown and Diggs coming back make me feel real excited about this defense next year. I know we'll like lose players like Gilmore, but I like what we have coming back. And hopefully we'll see some nice improvement from players like Mazi.
 

FanofJerry

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That poster might have been me. Im a very Pro-Dak member.

I mentioned that New York went to Zone and shortly after Dak threw an INT. It was a win for the Anti-Dak members that beat the drum on his ability to read zone.

Looks like its the whole league of QB's having trouble with it.

Best way to win the debate is for someone to show QB's beating the exact same zone Dak has failed at. I dont have All-22. And if someone wants to say that its the route designs that have an effect on all this zone stuff, such as motion and cross routes...thats not on Dak. Show me QBs that have beat zone with no motion or cross routes but with great feel and read of the game and then lets discuss how bad Dak is doing compared with those QB's. How many of those QBs are there? Which traits do they possess that is helping them beat zone(look off DB's, ability to go through full progressions) or is it their OLine is giving them time to beat the zone. Someone create the montage....because Im not doing it.
 
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