Interview with Rams S Atogwe whom cowboys have reported interest in;

rkell87

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masomenos85;3322774 said:
In the Cowboys defense, the FS doesn't get targeted often. We want teams to throw at our CBs, so that's what we give them. No trio of CBs was targeted more often than Jenkins, Newman and Scandrick. Do teams throw at them because they suck? No. Darelle Revis was the second most targeted CB last year, so ability and # of targets don't go hand in hand.

If our CBs are being targeted, who has fewer opportunities to make plays? Ken Hamlin.

In the past two years (28 games), Atogwe has been targeted 57 times and he has 7 INTs. That means he intercepted the ball 12.3% of the time. Ken Hamlin was targeted 41 times in the past two years, he also played in 28 games and had 1 INT.

If Atogwe had been targeted the same number of times as Hamlin, he would have picked off 5 passes in the past two seasons. 5 is definitely more than 1, I'll admit that. But are 2 extra INTs a season going to make a significant difference on this defense? YES.

As far as forced fumbles go, they're too hard to actually credit to a player without seeing tape. For instance, some could have come off of safety blitzes where Atogwe blindsided the QB and caused him to fumble. While a good play, it's probably one that any other safety making a blind side hit would also make. If you look at the stats of a guy like Ware and see a consistent number of forced fumbles, year after year, then you can assume that the player it good at stripping the ball. You don't see that with Atogwe.

I like Atogwe, I think he's a good player and I won't be upset if he ends up a Cowboy (as long as a high draft pick isn't involved). I just don't think he, or any FS, is the key to us winning this year.
FIFY.
 

masomenos

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rkell87;3322776 said:


http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2008/01/how_important_is_turnover_marg.html

And in the turnover department, one additional turnover forced or turnover avoided adds 0.207 wins to your total from the starting point of eight expected wins for a neutral margin.

Let's say that we had Atogwe last year instead of Hamlin, and that he had the exact same 5 turnovers in 12 games season. We'll assume Atogwe stays healthy the whole year, so we'll use his crated turnover rate of .417 per game.

.417 turnover per game * 16 games = 6.7 turnovers a season. Now, we'll subtract the one turnover that Hamlin created and end up with a difference of 5.7 turnovers.

5.7 turnovers a season * .207 wins = 1.173 extra wins per season.

In reality, that number would be even lower because Atogwe's role would be different in our defense and he wouldn't be targeted as often. We can debate how much difference 1 win would have made during the regular season, but I think the dismantling we were given by the Vikings showed that there were still serious problems to address. Because of that, I'm inclined to say that 1 win would not have made a difference.
 

theogt

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masomenos85;3322789 said:
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2008/01/how_important_is_turnover_marg.html



Let's say that we had Atogwe last year instead of Hamlin, and that he had the exact same 5 turnovers in 12 games season. We'll assume Atogwe stays healthy the whole year, so we'll use his crated turnover rate of .417 per game.

.417 turnover per game * 16 games = 6.7 turnovers a season. Now, we'll subtract the one turnover that Hamlin created and end up with a difference of 5.7 turnovers.

5.7 turnovers a season * .207 wins = 1.173 extra wins per season.

In reality, that number would be even lower because Atogwe's role would be different in our defense and he wouldn't be targeted as often. We can debate how much difference 1 win would have made during the regular season, but I think the dismantling we were given by the Vikings showed that there were still serious problems to address. Because of that, I'm inclined to say that 1 win would not have made a difference.
The force is strong with this one.
 

jobberone

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Our entire defense needs to pick up on the turnovers not just one person although any help would be appreciated.
 

casmith07

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masomenos85;3322774 said:
I like Atogwe, I think he's a good player and I won't be upset if he ends up a Cowboy (as long as a high draft pick isn't involved). I just don't think he, or any FS, is the key to us winning this year.

It's pretty hard to improve on the #2 scoring defense in the NFL only separated by a few decimal places.
 

21Savage

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Bob Sacamano;3322745 said:
Just joshing with ya'.

Did you PM me the redemption track? cuz I recently cleared all of my inbox (received a lot of infractions and what not) and I don't think I checked it out.

No, I didn't. But here's a link to the song on youtube. It's prolly Cormega's best verse and he totally murdered AZ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RuYrnKhBuA
 

DallasInDC

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Eskimo;3322719 said:
He is really well-spoken for a professional football player. I like safeties with high intelligence and good work ethics.

BTW, what kind of shoulder injury did he have?

That's what a stanford education will get you.
 

speedkilz88

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masomenos85;3322774 said:
In the Cowboys defense, the FS doesn't get targeted often. We want teams to throw at our CBs, so that's what we give them. No trio of CBs was targeted more often than Jenkins, Newman and Scandrick. Do teams throw at them because they suck? No. Darelle Revis was the second most targeted CB last year, so ability and # of targets don't go hand in hand.

If our CBs are being targeted, who has fewer opportunities to make plays? Ken Hamlin.

In the past two years (28 games), Atogwe has been targeted 57 times and he has 7 INTs. That means he intercepted the ball 12.3% of the time. Ken Hamlin was targeted 41 times in the past two years, he also played in 28 games and had 1 INT.

If Atogwe had been targeted the same number of times as Hamlin, he would have picked off 5 passes in the past two seasons. 5 is definitely more than 1, I'll admit that. But are 2 extra INTs a season going to make a significant difference on this defense? No.

As far as forced fumbles go, they're too hard to actually credit to a player without seeing tape. For instance, some could have come off of safety blitzes where Atogwe blindsided the QB and caused him to fumble. While a good play, it's probably one that any other safety making a blind side hit would also make. If you look at the stats of a guy like Ware and see a consistent number of forced fumbles, year after year, then you can assume that the player it good at stripping the ball. You don't see that with Atogwe.

I like Atogwe, I think he's a good player and I won't be upset if he ends up a Cowboy (as long as a high draft pick isn't involved). I just don't think he, or any FS, is the key to us winning this year.
It's disengenous of you to ignore forced fumbles. Atogwe has forced 14 fumbles in five seasons (6 in one season and 5 in another, with 3 last season) while Ken Hamlin has only 5 in seven seasons(with 2 in his rookie season being his career best). Big difference right there.
 

rkell87

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masomenos85;3322789 said:
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2008/01/how_important_is_turnover_marg.html



Let's say that we had Atogwe last year instead of Hamlin, and that he had the exact same 5 turnovers in 12 games season. We'll assume Atogwe stays healthy the whole year, so we'll use his crated turnover rate of .417 per game.

.417 turnover per game * 16 games = 6.7 turnovers a season. Now, we'll subtract the one turnover that Hamlin created and end up with a difference of 5.7 turnovers.

5.7 turnovers a season * .207 wins = 1.173 extra wins per season.

In reality, that number would be even lower because Atogwe's role would be different in our defense and he wouldn't be targeted as often. We can debate how much difference 1 win would have made during the regular season, but I think the dismantling we were given by the Vikings showed that there were still serious problems to address. Because of that, I'm inclined to say that 1 win would not have made a difference.
one win was the difference between playing the vikings at our place instead of theirs.
 

masomenos

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speedkilz88;3323045 said:
It's disengenous of you to ignore forced fumbles. Atogwe has forced 14 fumbles in five seasons (6 in one season and 5 in another, with 3 last season) while Ken Hamlin has only 5 in seven seasons(with 2 in his rookie season being his career best). Big difference right there.

If it were a real talent that Atogwe had, then he wouldn't have 2 seasons with no forced fumbles. 40% of the seasons Atogwe has played in, he has 0 forced fumbles.

Still, if you look at one of the other posts in this thread, I included the effect of Atogwe's forced fumbles.
 

speedkilz88

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masomenos85;3323077 said:
If it were a real talent that Atogwe had, then he wouldn't have 2 seasons with no forced fumbles. 40% of the seasons Atogwe has played in, he has 0 forced fumbles.

Still, if you look at one of the other posts in this thread, I included the effect of Atogwe's forced fumbles.
Dude you are just full of crap. He's as consistent as a safety can be in that department. Look at Hamlin's numbers, they are awful.
 

TheSport78

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masomenos85;3323077 said:
If it were a real talent that Atogwe had, then he wouldn't have 2 seasons with no forced fumbles. 40% of the seasons Atogwe has played in, he has 0 forced fumbles.

Still, if you look at one of the other posts in this thread, I included the effect of Atogwe's forced fumbles.

Bring up all the nonsense stats you want, but the fact of the matter is OJ Atogwe is a great player on a poor defense, while Hamlin is a poor player on a great defense. You do the math on that one. :eek:
 
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Texan_Eph89;3322768 said:
What are you on?
All our defense needs is tunovers.....
Atogwe is a turnover machine.

speedkilz88;3323045 said:
It's disengenous of you to ignore forced fumbles. Atogwe has forced 14 fumbles in five seasons (6 in one season and 5 in another, with 3 last season) while Ken Hamlin has only 5 in seven seasons(with 2 in his rookie season being his career best). Big difference right there.


Some people don't know football and have never played a day in their life... Atogwe is a very underrated safety. He's very good in all phases. You want a guy who has a nose for the ball.
 

masomenos

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TheSport78;3323116 said:
Bring up all the nonsense stats you want, but the fact of the matter is OJ Atogwe is a great player on a poor defense, while Hamlin is a poor player on a great defense. You do the math on that one.
:eek:

Take a look at ProFootballFocus.com.

Over the past two years Atogwe has a 1.3 coverage score and a -7.6 run defense score. Hamlin has a -1.4 coverage score and a -0.9 run defense score. Atogwe is better in coverage than Hamlin, I have no issue with that. He just doesn't offer so much more that his addition would make a big difference.

Atogwe isn't a great player, he's a decent player. As a comparison, Ed Reed (who happens to be great) had a 23.1 coverage score and a 3.3 run defense score over the past two years.
 

masomenos

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ThreeSportStar80;3323142 said:
Some people don't know football and have never played a day in their life... Atogwe is a very underrated safety. He's very good in all phases. You want a guy who has a nose for the ball.

:laugh2:
 

speedkilz88

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ThreeSportStar80;3323142 said:
Some people don't know football and have never played a day in their life... Atogwe is a very underrated safety. He's very good in all phases. You want a guy who has a nose for the ball.
Didn't I read somewhere that people who don't know football get their stats from Pro Football Focus?
 

masomenos

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speedkilz88;3323436 said:
Didn't I read somewhere that people who don't know football get their stats from Pro Football Focus?

:laugh2:

That's not even clever.
 
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