Irv Smith falling?

[RS12]

3. Stock down

As NFL Draft 400 work rolls on, I've taken a closer look at tight ends. One player moving down the board, even if just slightly, is Alabama tight end Irv Smith Jr.

Smith didn't test well at the NFL Scouting Combine by posting a 32½-inch vertical jump, 110-inch broad jump, 7.32-second three-cone drill and 4.33-second short shuttle. He did run well in the 40-yard dash (4.63s), but a small frame and poor athletic testing are concerns.

Where will an NFL team use Smith, who has the athletic profile of an H-back? Can he be a fit in a one-tight-end set? Those questions are pushing him from the late first round to the middle of Round 2 on my board.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...sider-buzz-from-pro-days-and-latest-big-board

 

[beware_d-ware]

I'd still take him in the second. Alabama has an enviable record of getting guys ready for the NFL.

Just for grins, I looked up their players from the last few draft classes on Wikipedia (and it's a lot, way more than I realized actually). These are all the Bama dudes from the first two rounds over the past few years. Looking it over, virtually none of these guys have been busts and almost all of them have been ready to play right away.

2016
Ryan Kelly: Day 1 starter, has been really good for the Colts
Reggie Ragland: Blew his ACL as a rookie, got traded, turned into an OK run stuffer.
Derrick Henry: Took three years to figure it out, but as of the end of this season, it looks like he's figuring it out.
A'Shawn Robinson: Day 1 ready run plugger.
Jarran Reed: Day 1 ready run plugger.
Cyrus Jones: Sucks. Patriots cornerbacks are cursed.

2017
Marlon Humphrey: Day 1 starter, looking really good.
Jonathan Allen: Day 1 starter. Hasn't been as good as many including myself expected, but he's been decent.
OJ Howard: Day 1 starter. Played really well this last year.
Reuben Foster: Day 1 starter, has been dominant but it looks like his problems with women have caught up to him.
Cam Robinson: Day 1 starter, he's been OK.
Ryan Anderson: I actually know nothing about him.
Dalvin Tomlinson: Day 1 ready run plugger, made Snacks Harrison expendable.

2018
Minkah Fitzpatrick: Day 1 starter, good player on a bad defense.
Da'Ron Payne: Day 1 starter, wrecking ball against the run.
Rashaan Evans: Sucked at the beginning of the year, but I think he turned it on in the second half.
Calvin Ridley: Day 1 starter, up and down this year but 10 TDs are promising.


So without taking literally anything into account about Irv Smith himself, I like his chances of becoming a starter just because he comes from the Bama NFL prep machine.

Turning the focus to Smith, I don't think his ceiling is very high because he's not that big, not that athletic, and not an overwhelming blocker. But he's a high floor guy who split time in-line, in the slot, and at H-back seemingly evenly and can do all 3 jobs, and he's got enough straight-line speed to get down the seam in the pros. So at a position with a notoriously long learning curve and a shortage of players coming in with real blocking experience, I think Smith is a pretty safe bet to take. I'd prefer a DL or safety in the second, but wouldn't be too upset if he ends up being our guy. There's a good chance he would become the seam stretcher people have been wanting Dak to have.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

3. Stock down

As NFL Draft 400 work rolls on, I've taken a closer look at tight ends. One player moving down the board, even if just slightly, is Alabama tight end Irv Smith Jr.

Smith didn't test well at the NFL Scouting Combine by posting a 32½-inch vertical jump, 110-inch broad jump, 7.32-second three-cone drill and 4.33-second short shuttle. He did run well in the 40-yard dash (4.63s), but a small frame and poor athletic testing are concerns.

Where will an NFL team use Smith, who has the athletic profile of an H-back? Can he be a fit in a one-tight-end set? Those questions are pushing him from the late first round to the middle of Round 2 on my board.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...sider-buzz-from-pro-days-and-latest-big-board

I didn’t think he was a stud athlete coming into the Combine but I was a bit disappointed with how he tested. Given that he’s smaller for the position I was looking for better metrics.

That all said, he has passable numbers and I think he’s best suited as an H-back ala Delanie Walker and Charles Clay.

It wouldn’t be a shocker to me if he drops to the 3rd round, especially with all the talent at the position.

 

[Gaede]

This guy is my favorite TE. But yeah, those numbers should drop him for sure.

 

[cnuball21]

No at 58...

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I can see him on the Pats.

 

[Hardline]

He's not dropping within smelling distance of 58.
No reason to even think about it.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

He's not dropping within smelling distance of 58.
No reason to even think about it.

This will be fun to revisit.

 

[Mr_437]

If Cowboys draft a TE at 58 with all there current needs I won't even check the rest of their picks that whole weekend because they will have once a again ignored their biggest issues S n DT once again.

 

[Gaede]

If Cowboys draft a TE at 58 with all there current needs I won't even check the rest of their picks that whole weekend because they will have once a again ignored their biggest issues S n DT once again.

This is obtuse. Te is a major need for us as well, and it is very possible the BPA is TE.

 

[Mr_437]

This is obtuse. Te is a major need for us as well, and it is very possible the BPA is TE.

How many reps will a TE get to grow with Witten around? Add in Jarwin and 4th round pick last year Shultz? Then you WRs Coop, Cobb n Gallup...a TE won't get many reps.

A DT will at the very least be in a rotation. A Safety could start right away.

I see TE as more of a want oppose to a need, but we all see things differently.

 

[Bizwah]

Every year there is a player that unexpectedly drops. Sometimes the drop is huge, like Hurst from last season. There will be a player or two we don't expect to see available drop to our range.

 

[xwalker]

3. Stock down

As NFL Draft 400 work rolls on, I've taken a closer look at tight ends. One player moving down the board, even if just slightly, is Alabama tight end Irv Smith Jr.

Smith didn't test well at the NFL Scouting Combine by posting a 32½-inch vertical jump, 110-inch broad jump, 7.32-second three-cone drill and 4.33-second short shuttle. He did run well in the 40-yard dash (4.63s), but a small frame and poor athletic testing are concerns.

Where will an NFL team use Smith, who has the athletic profile of an H-back? Can he be a fit in a one-tight-end set? Those questions are pushing him from the late first round to the middle of Round 2 on my board.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...sider-buzz-from-pro-days-and-latest-big-board

He is a difficult player to project to the NFL.

6-3, 4.63 forty, 32.5 vert

Uncertainty normally causes players to fall in the draft.

He is similar in size to James Hanna who became a very good blocker in the Cowboys scheme. Hanna got up to about 250 and was 6'-3.5" . Obviously Hanna was not a significant receiving option but just for comparison of Smith's potential as a blocker Hanna is an example.

The Cowboys like positional blockers that can also function as move-blockers (H-Back type blocking). The Cowboys don't put a high priority on dominant point of attack power blocking where the TE needs to move the defender out of the hole.

The Cowboys TEs just wall-off defenders and often get the defenders to take themselves out of the play by jumping outside or inside of the blocker at which point the blocker (TE) just has to impede the defender's path back to the RB.

Smith's strength is obviously as a receiver. The issue in terms of projecting him to the NFL is that he does not have the height advantage over defenders that many TEs posses but he also doesn't have the speed/athleticism of the Delanie Walker type (Walker 4.5 forty, 37 vert) and definitely not the athleticism of Vernon Davis (6-3, 4.38 forty, 42 vert).

 

[Gaede]

How many reps will a TE get to grow with Witten around? Add in Jarwin and 4th round pick last year Shultz? Then you WRs Coop, Cobb n Gallup...a TE won't get many reps.

A DT will at the very least be in a rotation. A Safety could start right away.

I see TE as more of a want oppose to a need, but we all see things differently.

I see what you're saying. A DT or S is more likely to be a starter.

But I don't think Witt will start--at least, he won't if we draft someone. I know our DL got steamrolled in the playoffs, but don't forget that the offense was the main thing holding this team back for the entire year. Specifically, our inability to score

Adding a threat in the middle, one that can create more TDs is pivotal. We can't rely on Cooper taking every catch to the endzone. We absolutely need a big fast TE that can give defenders another person to cover in the redzone.

 

[Mr_437]

I see what you're saying. A DT or S is more likely to be a starter.

But I don't think Witt will start--at least, he won't if we draft someone. I know our DL got steamrolled in the playoffs, but don't forget that the offense was the main thing holding this team back for the entire year. Specifically, our inability to score

Adding a threat in the middle, one that can create more TDs is pivotal. We can't rely on Cooper taking every catch to the endzone. We absolutely need a big fast TE that can give defenders another person to cover in the redzone.

I see your point. Will JG even allow a rookie to play over #82 especially one taking at 58...who could even be that guy?

Seeing what Jarwin added towards the end of the year makes displeased with them bringing Witten back, so if someone can help limit his snaps I'm all for.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

He is a difficult player to project to the NFL.

6-3, 4.63 forty, 32.5 vert

Uncertainty normally causes players to fall in the draft.

He is similar in size to James Hanna who became a very good blocker in the Cowboys scheme. Hanna got up to about 250 and was 6'-3.5" . Obviously Hanna was not a significant receiving option but just for comparison of Smith's potential as a blocker Hanna is an example.

The Cowboys like positional blockers that can also function as move-blockers (H-Back type blocking). The Cowboys don't put a high priority on dominant point of attack power blocking where the TE needs to move the defender out of the hole.

The Cowboys TEs just wall-off defenders and often get the defenders to take themselves out of the play by jumping outside or inside of the blocker at which point the blocker (TE) just has to impede the defender's path back to the RB.

Smith's strength is obviously as a receiver. The issue in terms of projecting him to the NFL is that he does not have the height advantage over defenders that many TEs posses but he also doesn't have the speed/athleticism of the Delanie Walker type (Walker 4.5 forty, 37 vert) and definitely not the athleticism of Vernon Davis (6-3, 4.38 forty, 42 vert).

I think folks forget what an athletic specimen Hanna was:

Combine #s:
6’-3”
252 lbs

4.43 forty
1.52 10-yard split
24 bench reps
36” vertical
6.76 3-cone

The idiots coaching/running this team made him a blocking TE.

 

[Mr_437]

I think folks forget what an athletic specimen Hanna was:

Combine #s:
6’-3”
252 lbs

4.43 forty
1.52 10-yard split
24 bench reps
36” vertical
6.76 3-cone

The idiots coaching/running this team made him a blocking TE.

JG's man love for Witten stunted Hanna's ability to contribute...reference Marty B, Fasano and the great John Phillips.

Fast forward to present day, as soon as, false starts or get a holding call put him on the bench. Last year, TE were penalty free for the most part...#82 gets a penalty every game no fib.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

JG's man love for Witten stunted Hanna's ability to contribute...reference Marty B, Fasano and the great John Phillips.

Fast forward to present day, as soon as, false starts or get a holding call put him on the bench. Last year, TE were penalty free for the most part...#82 gets a penalty every game no fib.

I’m a Witten fan but I was ready for him to retire 2-3 seasons ago.

Don’t get me started on his mythical blocking prowess.

 

[Mr_437]

I’m a Witten fan but I was ready for him to retire 2-3 seasons ago.

Don’t get me started on his mythical blocking prowess.

I like him too, but those penalties is something this team can do w/o...missed blocks too haha.

 

[xwalker]

I think folks forget what an athletic specimen Hanna was:

Combine #s:
6’-3”
252 lbs

4.43 forty
1.52 10-yard split
24 bench reps
36” vertical
6.76 3-cone

The idiots coaching/running this team made him a blocking TE.

Hanna was just never comfortable catching the ball.