Is DT really a top need?

[LatinMind]

IF Dallas keeps Ratliff? Dallas would have Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Crawford as a rotation. With a healthy Ratliff wouldnt this rotation be better than say the bears DT rotation? Melton isnt anything special, and Pea is invisible most of the time with Okoye and Collins rotating in. If you ask me theyre all JAGs. And the heaviest one of them all is Pea at 300lbs.

IMO if Dallas intends to keep Ratliff i'd love for the team to roll with this group for atleast the yr and let them see what they have in Hatcher, Lissemore, and Crawford before they dismiss them and bring in somebody else. We all know Ratliff is a beast of a DT when healthy. Thats the key word tho WHEN.

Some people seem to think that DT is the most important part of this defense along the DL. When thats nonsense. As the bears have shown you can be disruptive with average players. The key is to have two really good DEs. Because thats where your passrush comes from. Ware and a DE in the draft would be alot better then drafting a DT in round 1. Ezekiel Ansah would be the perfect compliment to Ware. Who better to look up to and learn from could a rookie ask for then Ware?

The outside is the key. You bottle up the QB with the passrush, and Ratliff, Hatcher are instantly made better because you put them in a good situation where the QB is bottled up. Add in that LBer and DB blitz that Kiffin is known for and this defense turns scary.

 

[Nemesis4u]

I think you already answered yourself kinda IF ratliff could stay healthy then yes but can you depend on him to play 16 games?

 

[Alexander]

IF Dallas keeps Ratliff? Dallas would have Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Crawford as a rotation. With a healthy Ratliff wouldnt this rotation be better than say the bears DT rotation? Melton isnt anything special, and Pea is invisible most of the time with Okoye and Collins rotating in. If you ask me theyre all JAGs. And the heaviest one of them all is Pea at 300lbs.

IMO if Dallas intends to keep Ratliff i'd love for the team to roll with this group for atleast the yr and let them see what they have in Hatcher, Lissemore, and Crawford before they dismiss them and bring in somebody else. We all know Ratliff is a beast of a DT when healthy. Thats the key word tho WHEN.

Some people seem to think that DT is the most important part of this defense along the DL. When thats nonsense. As the bears have shown you can be disruptive with average players. The key is to have two really good DEs. Because thats where your passrush comes from. Ware and a DE in the draft would be alot better then drafting a DT in round 1. Ezekiel Ansah would be the perfect compliment to Ware. Who better to look up to and learn from could a rookie ask for then Ware?

The outside is the key. You bottle up the QB with the passrush, and Ratliff, Hatcher are instantly made better because you put them in a good situation where the QB is bottled up. Add in that LBer and DB blitz that Kiffin is known for and this defense turns scary.

So, a raw DE who is still learning the game over a seasoned three year starting three-technique tackle that could make this defense do what it was designed to do would be better?

If you want to pitch the left defensive end position is a bigger need, you will need to try a little harder. An emerging Henry Melton along with Peppers is what made Chicago's defense, the most recent variant of this scheme, be successful.

You do know who the Bears had starting at left defensive end, right?

 

[LatinMind]

So, a raw DE who is still learning the game over a seasoned three year starting three-technique tackle that could make this defense do what it was designed to do would be better?

If you want to pitch the left defensive end position is a bigger need, you will need to try a little harder. An emerging Henry Melton along with Peppers is what made Chicago's defense, the most recent variant of this scheme, be successful.

You do know who the Bears had starting at left defensive end, right?

Was Melton really emerging? did he just get in the right system? Was he anything special?

Melton 43 tackles 6 sacks as a DT in a 4-3 and is playing a posistion to get in the action

Hatcher 51 tackles 4 sacks playing DE in a 3-4 where hes basically in there to clog up space to free up Ware.

 

[The Quest for Six]

Dallas needs at least two if not three defensive linemen, they're very small up front for a tampa 2 defense

 

[Alexander]

Was Melton really emerging? did he just get in the right system? Was he anything special?

I would say he is pretty special in the same system for two seasons running.

At least his results, including the All Pro mentions, say that.

He is the Sapp of their defense. He is the disruptive force to go along with the edge rusher in Peppers.

I do not believe, at all, that Jay Ratliff is even close to being that, healthy or not anymore. Now if you want to suggest Hatcher could be, then we can have that discussion. I am just not prepared to say a declining player like Ratliff who appears to be mentally unstable being able to find himself and elevate his play to the level needed.

 

[LatinMind]

Dallas needs at least two if not three defensive linemen, they're very small up front for a tampa 2 defense

how? Chicago has 1 300lb dt



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[SilverStarCowboy]

Was Melton really emerging? did he just get in the right system? Was he anything special?

Melton 43 tackles 6 sacks as a DT in a 4-3 and is playing a posistion to get in the action

Hatcher 51 tackles 4 sacks playing DE in a 3-4 where hes basically in there to clog up space to free up Ware.

Though DL could be the strongest position with the 18th Overall, the answer is no, with the transition to a 4/3 Dallas doesn't need DT, especially if Ratliff is retained and if DE Spencer is signed, Cowboys probably don't need another DLineman.

Dallas will need LB and Safety on Defense, while the Draft talent would dictate not taking those position in the first round, the talent over on the Oline specifically at the Tackle spot at #18 Overall is significant.

Looks like OL has the edge pre-combine, OL stonewalled all the DLs at the Senior Bowl.

 

[LatinMind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatinMind

Was Melton really emerging? did he just get in the right system? Was he anything special?

I would say he is pretty special in the same system for two seasons running.

At least his results, including the All Pro mentions, say that.

He is the Sapp of their defense. He is the disruptive force to go along with the edge rusher in Peppers.

I do not believe, at all, that Jay Ratliff is even close to being that, healthy or not anymore. Now if you want to suggest Hatcher could be, then we can have that discussion. I am just not prepared to say a declining player like Ratliff who appears to be mentally unstable being able to find himself and elevate his play to the level needed.

is Ratliff declining or was he injured this past yr? you don't think Ratliff would be better with a 4 man front all of the time? he is a handful for teams with a 3man front.


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[dadymat]

I would prefer an OG or OT in the first, i want this O line fixed with top talent for the long run, no more year to year patching ...defensive lineman are easier to aquire and worst case scenario we could survive with what we have, even though we would still be able to pick some up in 2nd, 3rd or later rounds.....

but out this draft i want 3 new offensive lineman, and 2 defensive lineman...I know it wont happen, but thats what i want

 

[CowboyChris]

i dont see Crawford as a DT, it remains to be seen how he does there

 

[LatinMind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatinMind

Was Melton really emerging? did he just get in the right system? Was he anything special?

Melton 43 tackles 6 sacks as a DT in a 4-3 and is playing a posistion to get in the action

Hatcher 51 tackles 4 sacks playing DE in a 3-4 where hes basically in there to clog up space to free up Ware.


Though DL is the strongest position with the 18th Overall, the answer is no, with the transition to a 4/3 Dallas doesn't need DT, and if Spencer is signed, probably don't need another DLineman.

Dallas will need LB and Safety on Defense, while the Draft talent would dictate not taking those position in the first round, the talent over on the Oline specifically at the Tackle spot at #18 Overall is significant.

Looks like pre-combine, OL stonewalled the DLs at the Senior Bowl.

I think Sims or albright start in 2013. IMO only spot they really do need is safety.


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[xwalker]

IF Dallas keeps Ratliff? Dallas would have Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Crawford as a rotation. With a healthy Ratliff wouldnt this rotation be better than say the bears DT rotation? Melton isnt anything special, and Pea is invisible most of the time with Okoye and Collins rotating in. If you ask me theyre all JAGs. And the heaviest one of them all is Pea at 300lbs.

IMO if Dallas intends to keep Ratliff i'd love for the team to roll with this group for atleast the yr and let them see what they have in Hatcher, Lissemore, and Crawford before they dismiss them and bring in somebody else. We all know Ratliff is a beast of a DT when healthy. Thats the key word tho WHEN.

Some people seem to think that DT is the most important part of this defense along the DL. When thats nonsense. As the bears have shown you can be disruptive with average players. The key is to have two really good DEs. Because thats where your passrush comes from. Ware and a DE in the draft would be alot better then drafting a DT in round 1. Ezekiel Ansah would be the perfect compliment to Ware. Who better to look up to and learn from could a rookie ask for then Ware?

The outside is the key. You bottle up the QB with the passrush, and Ratliff, Hatcher are instantly made better because you put them in a good situation where the QB is bottled up. Add in that LBer and DB blitz that Kiffin is known for and this defense turns scary.

Your contention is that Corey Wootton and Israel Idonije are better than Henry Melton?

I don't think you can't count on Ratliff staying healthy. Hatcher has an injury history also and will be 31 when the season starts. As of this minute, Crawford may be the best candidate to play the Stong-Side DE. Who is Ware's backup at Weak-Side DE?

 

[AsthmaField]

I think Sims or albright start in 2013. IMO only spot they really do need is safety.

Albright will get eaten alive playing OLB in a tampa 2. He can't cover nearly good enough.

I'm telling you, at 6-5, 260 lbs. Albright is a DE in this scheme.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Your contention is that Corey Wootton and Israel Idonije are better than Henry Melton?

I don't think you can't count on Ratliff staying healthy. Hatcher has an injury history also and will be 31 when the season starts. As of this minute, Crawford may be the best candidate to play the Stong-Side DE. Who is Ware's backup at Weak-Side DE?

Ratliff will be a different animal in a 4/3, can see him staying healthy, and maybe having a monster season, he was just never a 3/4 guy.

 

[xwalker]

Ratliff will be a different animal in a 4/3, can see him staying healthy, and maybe having a monster season, he was just never a 3/4 guy.

Ratliff is a 1-gap player in either scheme. In the 4-3-under he will be playing a very similar role to what he played in Rob Ryan's 3-4. He did/will play lined up at the 1-tech and 0-tech in both defenses. He didn't play as a 2-gap NT in RR's defense.

 

[LatinMind]

Your contention is that Corey Wootton and Israel Idonije are better than Henry Melton?

I don't think you can't count on Ratliff staying healthy. Hatcher has an injury history also and will be 31 when the season starts. As of this minute, Crawford may be the best candidate to play the Stong-Side DE. Who is Ware's backup at Weak-Side DE?

What im saying is these chicago DTs arent anything special. Yes disrupt a some but thats more because of the system. Not entirely because of the player. They arent big, and they arent fast. Those people thinking Dallas needs to get bigger. Theyre already big. Ratliff, Lissemore are both 300lbs, Hatcher is 295.

I would like it if Crawford could play DE in the NFL in a 4-3. But there was a reason he was targeted by 3-4 teams. Because he provides little on the edge as a passrusher. Very Very little. Good vs the run, but you wont get anything in a passrush. He'd be better inside, he would be quick against guards.

 

[Nomad]

I've been wanting Dallas to draft a top-tier 1st or 2nd round DT since the year Casey Hampton/Shaun Rogers/Richard Seymour/GerardWarren came out (when we took Quincy instead).

Unless you count Marcus Spears I can't think of a highly rated defensive tackle we have taken in 12 drafts.

 

[LatinMind]

Ratliff is a 1-gap player in either scheme. In the 4-3-under he will be playing a very similar role to what he played in Rob Ryan's 3-4. He did/will play lined up at the 1-tech and 0-tech in both defenses. He didn't play as a 2-gap NT in RR's defense.

How do you know what Ratliff can do in a defense Dallas has never played? coming out of college nobody saw Ratliff as a Nt. He was drafted to play DE.

 

[RS12]

Is DT really a top need?

As a matter of fact it is.