Is It Play Calling Or Players?

[TwoDeep3]

I watch the play-offs like most here and see teams stack the line with receivers in a bunch formation. In some cases they put the receiver they are trying to protect in the back and use deception to get the match-ups they want.

I watch teams move down the field, their receivers finding openings on a regular basis.

I think back to the Dallas offense and Romo holding the ball for long periods and guys like Dez finding it difficult to get open.

So, is this Garrett's offense that inhibits the receivers, or is it the players.

If Dez is drawing a double, shouldn't that mean someone is in single coverage?

I do not believe Austin has the wheels to get open like he did for a short period of time - which caused the GM to overpay this guy.

So why is it Woodhead, and Amendola, and Welker can dominate at times, and Dallas cannot run an offense that allows Beasley to catch eight or nine passes in a game and force the defense to cover him and perhaps give Dez a shot at getting open?

Why cannot this offense scheme Dez into the open like other teams do their receivers?

Or is this the skills of the Dallas receivers that they cannot shake coverage?

What is the answer here?

 

[HeavyBarrel]

I can't say, but never discount the answer could be "both"

 

[TrailBlazer]

I watch the play-offs like most here and see teams stack the line with receivers in a bunch formation. In some cases they put the receiver they are trying to protect in the back and use deception to get the match-ups they want.

I watch teams move down the field, their receivers finding openings on a regular basis.

I think back to the Dallas offense and Romo holding the ball for long periods and guys like Dez finding it difficult to get open.

So, is this Garrett's offense that inhibits the receivers, or is it the players.

If Dez is drawing a double, shouldn't that mean someone is in single coverage?

I do not believe Austin has the wheels to get open like he did for a short period of time - which caused the GM to overpay this guy.

So why is it Woodhead, and Amendola, and Welker can dominate at times, and Dallas cannot run an offense that allows Beasley to catch eight or nine passes in a game and force the defense to cover him and perhaps give Dez a shot at getting open?

Why cannot this offense scheme Dez into the open like other teams do their receivers?

Or is this the skills of the Dallas receivers that they cannot shake coverage?

What is the answer here?

It's Garrett's crap scheme. Watch the packers or saints. They have rhythm, it's not chaotic like Dallas offense. Trying to snap the ball with one second on play clock. A good offensive scheme gets receivers open. But in JGs offense out receivers seem like they can't get open. And, I've never seen another team throw so many picks bc the receiver wasn't exactly where tony thought he should be. Crap offensive scheme

 

[TTexasTT]

So why is it Woodhead, and Amendola, and Welker can dominate at times, and Dallas cannot run an offense that allows Beasley to catch eight or nine passes in a game and force the defense to cover him and perhaps give Dez a shot at getting open?

Hmmm comparing Woodhead/Welker/Amendola to Beasley. Wonder why? Its not size.... Plus Beasley couldnt carry any of those guys jockstraps. j/k



I think its a little of both. Id say often the plays are right... just not executed. So Id say lack of preparation really... Who knows lol

 

[Idgit]

If we're among the league leaders in points/drive, and among the very worst teams in the league in stopping other teams' passing games, I don't think we can reasonably say there's a significant problem with either the play calling or the offensive personnel.

It's the players, on defense.

 

[maxdallasfan]

Scheme all the way.

 

[Direwolf63]

If we're among the league leaders in points/drive, and among the very worst teams in the league in stopping other teams' passing games, I don't think we can reasonable say there's a significant problem with either the play calling or the offensive personnel.

It's the players, on defense.

Most poster highly overrate the talent level on this team, especially on defense.

I give Jason Garrett a hard time, but I actually don't have a problem with the offense itself. I believe the schemes are sound.

The defense needs a serious infusion of talent. Especially the front 7.

 

[Idgit]

Most poster highly overrate the talent level on this team, especially on defense.

I give Jason Garrett a hard time, but I actually don't have a problem with the offense itself. I believe the schemes are sound.

The defense needs a serious infusion of talent. Especially the front 7.

I completely agree. I don't love his offense, but it generally works ok. People get mad because we don't run more, but if our points/drive stays high, I really don't care.

Our defensive cupboard was bare last season. With Lee and Spencer on the bench and Carter and Ware turning into pumpkins, that's a third of your snaps and a ton of your roster cap space idling along not giving you sufficient contribution. It needs to get fixed, and we don't really have a ton of money to fix it.

 

[Future]

If we're among the league leaders in points/drive, and among the very worst teams in the league in stopping other teams' passing games, I don't think we can reasonable say there's a significant problem with either the play calling or the offensive personnel.

It's the players, on defense.

The fact that the offense does put up a decent amount of points and still has A TON of room for improvement is what makes this so problematic and places it in the hands of JG, imo. This team succeeds in spite of his crappy system, not because of it.

And fwiw, I know that teams work to take Beas away in the slot from time to time, that's what the Giants did and it allowed Witten to get open more, hence his huge game.

JG's system is entirely predicated on guys beating someone. He does nothing creative to just naturally get WRs open, instead, he works to get someone a 1 on 1 matchup. That's why when the offense struggles he always blames execution, and its also why his offensive schemes are unoriginal and completely irrelevant to the success of this offense. You could get rid of the OC altogether, have Romo design and implement the game plan, and this offense wouldn't miss a beat because its so simple.

 

[TwoDeep3]

JG's does nothing creative to just naturally get WRs open, instead, he works to get someone a 1 on 1 matchup. That's why when the offense struggles.

This deserves to be repeated.

 

[DogFace]

This deserves to be repeated.

This deserves to be repeated. Twice.

 

[Fansince64]

I watch the play-offs like most here and see teams stack the line with receivers in a bunch formation. In some cases they put the receiver they are trying to protect in the back and use deception to get the match-ups they want.

I watch teams move down the field, their receivers finding openings on a regular basis.

I think back to the Dallas offense and Romo holding the ball for long periods and guys like Dez finding it difficult to get open.

So, is this Garrett's offense that inhibits the receivers, or is it the players.

If Dez is drawing a double, shouldn't that mean someone is in single coverage?

I do not believe Austin has the wheels to get open like he did for a short period of time - which caused the GM to overpay this guy.

So why is it Woodhead, and Amendola, and Welker can dominate at times, and Dallas cannot run an offense that allows Beasley to catch eight or nine passes in a game and force the defense to cover him and perhaps give Dez a shot at getting open?

Why cannot this offense scheme Dez into the open like other teams do their receivers?

Or is this the skills of the Dallas receivers that they cannot shake coverage?

What is the answer here?

I think a huge amount of it is scheme. One example - I would guess if someone were to go back and examine every offensive play we ran during the season, you would find we operated out of a bunched receiver set less than 20 times. Some teams (Denver, NE, GB and others) probably do that in 2 games. This is also the first year we have ever used that set. It has been prevalent all over the league for the last 3-4 seasons. Some people will say the reason we don't use it is because we seem to get called for interference when we do it. My response is that officials look more closely at teams when they do something unusual. Officials look at tape of who they are going to be officiating just like players look at tape of who they will be facing. Also, the more you run something the better feel you get for timing and rhythm.

A second example would be lack of screen passes.

A third would be a lack of drag routes in our offense and conversely, our great success when we do run them - especially Dez.

A fourth is failure to move our impact players around, especially Dez. Look at how many times NE, Denver, GB, etc. move their WRs into the backfield or split their TEs or RBs out wide to get favorable matchups. We never do that.

Basically, it is easy to see why several defensive players from other teams have said over the last few years that we are the easiest team they have to prepare for all season.

We are certainly not an especially talented team at all positions, but our skill players have always been good enough to get us to 10-6 or so. Jerry will always do what is necessary to get the good skill position players aka "shiny toys". Lack of intelligent, innovative coaching and ability in the trenches and at safety is what has held us back since 2009.


Monte Sliger

 

[Aven8]

It's the crap offense and the teacher of it. If he would bring in a different OC I might not have such a problem with JG.

We produce because of our QB making plays and our WR's making those plays. People now want to throw Cally under the bus, yet he finally improved our redzone offense dramatically in only one season. Something that JG couldn't accomplish.

I've said this before but since we are forced to stay in this out of date offense we should hire the last master left to teach it, Norv.

 

[Idgit]

The fact that the offense does put up a decent amount of points and still has A TON of room for improvement is what makes this so problematic and places it in the hands of JG, imo. This team succeeds in spite of his crappy system, not because of it.

And fwiw, I know that teams work to take Beas away in the slot from time to time, that's what the Giants did and it allowed Witten to get open more, hence his huge game.

JG's system is entirely predicated on guys beating someone. He does nothing creative to just naturally get WRs open, instead, he works to get someone a 1 on 1 matchup. That's why when the offense struggles he always blames execution, and its also why his offensive schemes are unoriginal and completely irrelevant to the success of this offense. You could get rid of the OC altogether, have Romo design and implement the game plan, and this offense wouldn't miss a beat because its so simple.

For a site where 'you are what your record says you are' is such a commonly heard complaint about a coach who's led the team to three consecutive 8-8s, you'd like the idea of measuring an offense by how many points it actually scores per series relative to all the other offenses would carry more weight.

Yes, it's theoretically possible to score even more points per series, and, yes, I"m in favor of that if you can guarantee me you can do it. Until then, though, I'm for addressing the bleeding gash of a pass defensive problem, even if it means passing up on an opportunity to blame the HC for something he's more directly responsible. After all, it's on JG to fix the problems on defense, too. It's his ship to right.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I can't say, but never discount the answer could be "both"

Maybe 60% scheme and 40% talent?

Defensively, if Rob Ryan can figure out how to be a top-five defense while missing so many starts from starters, so can Kiffin. Offensively, I think they did well enough on a consistent basis. It would be nice, though, to be more creative with Dez, Escobar, and Beasley.

 

[JD_KaPow]

As Idgit referred to, we were 4th in the league in points scored per drive. Maybe the offense isn't a problem.

 

[Future]

This is supp


Mods this post is attached to the wrong post. It's supposed to only be attached to the one that says "this deserves to be repeated"
Not sure how it happened but they totally contradict each other

Haha, when I read your OP and saw that it made me laugh.

 

[Future]

For a site where 'you are what your record says you are' is such a commonly heard complaint about a coach who's led the team to three consecutive 8-8s, you'd like the idea of measuring an offense by how many points it actually scores per series relative to all the other offenses would carry more weight.

Yes, it's theoretically possible to score even more points per series, and, yes, I"m in favor of that if you can guarantee me you can do it. Until then, though, I'm for addressing the bleeding gash of a pass defensive problem, even if it means passing up on an opportunity to blame the HC for something he's more directly responsible. After all, it's on JG to fix the problems on defense, too. It's his ship to right.

I don't buy into that theory of "you are what you are." Maybe it was the 5th best offense in the league in terms of scoring. That number is skewed because of TDs gifted by the defense and special teams. There were too many huge chunks of games where this offense couldn't do anything, and it never looked explosive at all other than the Denver game.

I agree that the defense has to be the top priority in the draft, but I have no faith in the offense and am not in the least bit happy with it.

 

[theSHOW]

If we're among the league leaders in points/drive, and among the very worst teams in the league in stopping other teams' passing games, I don't think we can reasonably say there's a significant problem with either the play calling or the offensive personnel.

It's the players, on defense.

It's a desert topping AND a floor wax. "new shimmer"

on offense it is seriously the play calling.
on defense it is the Kiffin scheme AND the players

 

[Idgit]

It's a desert topping AND a floor wax. "new shimmer"

on offense it is seriously the play calling.
on defense it is the Kiffin scheme AND the players

Except on offense, we're effective.