Is it time for a new defensive coordinator?

[darthseinfeld]

Depends on who is available. But we all know Jones isn't ready to cut the cord on Marinelli.

They seriously need to sit down and take a real good honest look at the scheme and what they are doing though.

There have been so many 3rd and forever plays that have been converted that you have to get upset about it and it isn't just the lack of a pass rush.

They dont have a scheme.

Marinelli is a Tampa 2 guy and they run nothing even close to it and either have no eye for Tampa 2 talent, have no desire to draft said talent, or are intent on creating the most non sensical defense in the history of the NFL

 

[Alexander]

They dont have a scheme.

Marinelli is a Tampa 2 guy and they run nothing even close to it and either have no eye for Tampa 2 talent, have no desire to draft said talent, or are intent on creating the most non sensical defense in the history of the NFL

He just seems like he is all consumed with "rush men" and ignores the nuances of calling defenses.

Sometimes he gets it, like when he blitzes like crazy to win a game like Washington, then he plays soft in the crunch to lose like last night.

Overall, he does enough things well to say he is not a disaster like Rob Ryan.

And these days, that spells genius around here.

 

[darthseinfeld]

He just seems like he is all consumed with "rush men" and ignores the nuances of calling defenses.

Sometimes he gets it, like when he blitzes like crazy to win a game like Washington, then he plays soft in the crunch to lose like last night.

Overall, he does enough things well to say he is not a disaster like Rob Ryan.

And these days, that spells genius around here.

His line scheme is in line with what it should be for a Tampa 2 but he

1) Doesnt have the quick LB's needed to close holes in a 4 man gap penetration scheme

2) Doesnt have the Zone CB's needed to effectively run a 4 man rush scheme that any cover 2 needs to be.

His defense doesnt work with Man CBs and downhill LB's

The safeties are part of the issue, manly due to the lack of ability creating turnovers ( a huge key in any Cover 2 style defense ),and the often whacky angles they take in run support and underneath coverage. I will give them credit in that they have been effective in limiting the deep side line pass which is also a staple of a cover 2 style defense. But thats all they have done right

And thats not an excuse for him. I dont think he has any plans on implementing any of these things

 

[gmoney112]

His line scheme is in line with what it should be for a Tampa 2 but he

1) Doesnt have the quick LB's needed to close holes in a 4 man gap penetration scheme

2) Doesnt have the Zone CB's needed to effectively run a 4 man rush scheme that any cover 2 needs to be.

His defense doesnt work with Man CBs and downhill LB's

The safeties are part of the issue, manly due to the lack of ability creating turnovers ( a huge key in any Cover 2 style defense ),and the often whacky angles they take in run support and underneath coverage. I will give them credit in that they have been effective in limiting the deep side line pass which is also a staple of a cover 2 style defense. But thats all they have done right

And thats not an excuse for him. I dont think he has any plans on implementing any of these things

He ran more of a cover 2 in Chicago. Here, he ran more of a cover 3 last year, and has run more of a cover 1 this year.

The problem is, he inherited 2 starting corners that don't play zone well, were supposed to be more "man" corners, but have fallen off at that as well. It also doesn't help that he lost his best CB and his two starting safeties are probably the worst tandem in the NFL.

When a guy has coached his team's to nearly leading the league in TO's every year, in a down year sometimes you have to look at the ingredients the chef is using.

 

[ISUFan22]

Dumb dumb dumb. Dallas defense not perfect, but very good. If the offense didn't suck, everyone thinks the defense is amazing.

 

[The Quest for Six]

Defensive coordinator isn't the problem as much as, Church and Wilcox at safety starting, lack of size and a consistent interior pass rush, lack of a lock down corner to take away one third of the field are the three biggest issues with this defense...IMO

 

[darthseinfeld]

He ran more of a cover 2 in Chicago. Here, he ran more of a cover 3 last year, and has run more of a cover 1 this year.

The problem is, he inherited 2 starting corners that don't play zone well, were supposed to be more "man" corners, but have fallen off at that as well. It also doesn't help that he lost his best CB and his two starting safeties are probably the worst tandem in the NFL.

When a guy has coached his team's to nearly leading the league in TO's every year, in a down year sometimes you have to look at the ingredients the chef is using.

A Tamp2 is really more of a Cover 3 with the MLB playing a deep zone in coverage. He has that in Lee, but Lee cant hold up at MLB. Has half of one in McClain. He can fill the gaps VS the run like a Tampa 2 MLB has to, but while he is good in coverage he isnt suitable for the role of a deep zone that you typically play your MLB in that style of defense. He is more of a short zone LB

 

[waving monkey]

I don't know how we continue to "Trust Marinelli"....

We have now blown games against Atlanta, New Orleans, Seattle, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and now the Jets.

We can't hold a lead.... Get unbelievably soft in coverage in the 4th quarter. Forget how to blitz in the 4th... I think

I've seen enough to know we gotta make a move.

Never been so frustrated by a defense. We play pretty solid for 3 quarters....then we completely go into a shell

and get conservative in the 4th....and just find a way to lose

How many times does a coach need to see when rushing 3 guys .....your not getting pressure...and your giving up

big plays? And figure it out it's not working??? ? Our DBs don't react to passes.....and just let guys make the

catch

?

 

[JoeKing]

Cowboys still have a very good shot at the NFL record for the fewest turnovers forced in the entire history of the NFL.

That, all by itself, is enough for Rod Marinelli to at least be questioned.

Coaches coach, players play. Turn overs are all about execution which is on the players. If you don't want the old man coaching the D then say so but making up lames excuses is getting exhausting.

 

[gmoney112]

A Tamp2 is really more of a Cover 3 with the MLB playing a deep zone in coverage. He has that in Lee, but Lee cant hold up at MLB. Has half of one in McClain. He can fill the gaps VS the run like a Tampa 2 MLB has to, but while he is good in coverage he isnt suitable for the role of a deep zone that you typically play your MLB in that style of defense. He is more of a short zone LB

Haha yeah I know. He hasn't run a Tampa 2 in a long time though

 

[Risen Star]

What's next? Fire Will McClay?!

Pffffftttt

 

[waving monkey]

Sapp said it ."who the motor"?

 

[lukin2006]

Yes he does ... how many games have we lost in the 4th quarter, the jets game was a perfect example ... could not make a crucial stop again in clutch ... judge this defence by what they do in clutch time ... from my perspective they are not good.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Haha yeah I know. He hasn't run a Tampa 2 in a long time though

He should be. Thats his defense.

There are two types of DC's. Neither better then the other.

1) A DC that adjusts schemes to the talent on hand. You see this alot in Baltimore and guys from Marvin Lewis's tree. The upside is flexibility with personel. The downside is you never have a true identity on defense because you constantly tinker with the scheme to fit your personell.

2) A DC who follows a scheme and its philosophy and keeps adjustments based on personal to a minimum. The upside is you have a clear philosophy and a clear idea of the type of players you need. And alot of time you can get them cheap because they are "system players" The downside is you dont have much flexibility with your personell.

They problem we have is we are trying to make Marinelli the former maybe because thats what Wade and Ryan were, but he like all Tampa 2 guys are absolutely the latter

 

[gmoney112]

He should be. Thats his defense.

There are two types of DC's. Neither better then the other.

1) A DC that adjusts schemes to the talent on hand. You see this alot in Baltimore and guys from Marvin Lewis's tree. The upside is flexibility with personel. The downside is you never have a true identity on defense because you constantly tinker with the scheme to fit your personell.

2) A DC who follows a scheme and its philosophy and keeps adjustments based on personal to a minimum. The upside is you have a clear philosophy and a clear idea of the type of players you need. And alot of time you can get them cheap because they are "system players" The downside is you dont have much flexibility with your personell.

They problem we have is we are trying to make Marinelli the former maybe because thats what Wade and Ryan were, but he like all Tampa 2 guys are absolutely the latter

I agree with you. But his defense in Chicago, which was the tits, was definitely a Cover 2 scheme and not a Tampa 2. Yeah, they're "similar" but Marinelli led the league basically every year in most defensive stats running that Cover 2 in Chicago.

Your point is in line with mine btw. I don't think he wanted to run this scheme, he was just forced too because of his personnel in the secondary. Get him some players in the secondary that can run what he's good at, and the defense will be fine.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I agree with you. But his defense in Chicago, which was the tits, was definitely a Cover 2 scheme and not a Tampa 2. Yeah, they're "similar" but Marinelli led the league basically every year in most defensive stats running that Cover 2 in Chicago.

Your point is in line with mine btw. I don't think he wanted to run this scheme, he was just forced too because of his personnel in the secondary. Get him some players in the secondary that can run what he's good at, and the defense will be fine.

A guy like Marinelli should be able to go from Cover 2 to Tampa 2 ( really a cover). Like you said the concepts are similar. A guy like McClain can play MLB in a Cover much better then a Tampa 2 thats basically asking a 250 Lbs to be a Safety

But when you basically him to run a Cover 1 scheme with man coverage on the outside. He isnt the type of DC that can pull that off. He hasnt done a horrible job at all as the defense has been stout to effective. But they arent creating what Marinelli needs to get to run a truely effective defense

 

[cml750]

Defense is not the problem with this team. The defense has played extremely well this year when our offense can't sustain drives. If our offense was playing well I suspect our defense would be near the top of the league. Our problem is a terrible offensive scheme that can only succeed with superstar QB's and a head coach who brings nothing to the table.

 

[egn22]

How many stops did they have last night? The defense was looking great. The offense was the main issue. How anyone could watch that game and come away thinking the defense was the problem is beyond me

 

[jazzcat22]

I really have to question on a critical drive, why was Turbin in there, when McFadden was running well.

This game was more on the offense, yet again, then the defense.
Defense needs help yes, but that if the offense does their job at times, the D would not be in that situation every games.

 

[gmoney112]

A guy like Marinelli should be able to go from Cover 2 to Tampa 2 ( really a cover). Like you said the concepts are similar. A guy like McClain can play MLB in a Cover much better then a Tampa 2 thats basically asking a 250 Lbs to be a Safety

But when you basically him to run a Cover 1 scheme with man coverage on the outside. He isnt the type of DC that can pull that off. He hasnt done a horrible job at all as the defense has been stout to effective. But they arent creating what Marinelli needs to get to run a truely effective defense

Oh I absolutely agree. I was just saying I think its less Rob wanting/unwilling to do it and more the fact that the staff has given him ingredients ala Top Chef and he's just trying to make do.

The staff needs to get him some guys this off-season so he can do what he does best.