Is Jerry really the GM still?

Discussion in 'Overtime Zone' started by CowboyChris, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. CowboyChris

    CowboyChris Well-Known Member

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    So I'm looking down this list of our most recent player transactions since 9-1 ....and I'm wondering is this the work of Jerry Jones?




    10/21 Michael Sam DE practice squad deletion
    10/21 Ken Bishop DT practice squad addition
    10/21 Troy Davis LB practice squad addition from Jets
    10/18 Keith Smith LB Activated from the Practice Squad
    10/18 Ken Bishop DT cut
    10/17 Lavar Edwards DE signed
    10/17 Korey Toomer LB cut
    10/15 Tony Hills T Activated from the Practice Squad from Dolphins
    10/15 Lavar Edwards DE cut
    10/9 Kerry Taylor WR practice squad addition from Jaguars
    10/9 LaRon Byrd WR practice squad deletion
    10/8 Keith Smith LB practice squad addition
    10/7 LaRon Byrd WR practice squad addition from Browns
    10/7 Tim Benford WR practice squad deletion
    10/6 Keith Smith LB cut
    10/4 Keith Smith LB Activated from the Practice Squad
    10/3 Morris Claiborne CB Placed on IR, torn left patellar tendon
    9/30 Rishaw Johnson G practice squad addition from Buccaneers
    9/30 Ronald Patrick G practice squad deletion
    9/29 Jakar Hamilton S suspension lifted
    9/24 Keith Smith LB practice squad addition
    9/23 Lavar Edwards DE signed
    9/23 Brian Clarke G cut
    9/23 Brian Clarke G Taken off IR, undisclosed
    9/22 Keith Smith LB cut
    9/20 Keith Smith LB Activated from the Practice Squad
    9/20 Lavar Edwards DE cut
    9/17 Darrion Weems T Placed on IR, shoulder
    9/17 Nikita Whitlock RB practice squad addition
    9/17 Orlando Scandrick CB suspension lifted
    9/16 Jemea Thomas CB practice squad deletion
    9/11 Orie Lemon LB cut
    9/11 Orie Lemon LB Taken off IR, undisclosed
    9/10 Reggie Dunn WR practice squad addition from Cardinals
    9/10 Nikita Whitlock RB practice squad deletion
    9/3 Will Smith LB practice squad deletion
    9/3 Matt Johnson S Taken off IR, hamstring
    9/3 Michael Sam DE practice squad addition from Rams
    9/3 Matt Johnson S cut
    9/2 Jack Crawford DE signed from Raiders
    9/2 John Wetzel T practice squad addition
    9/2 Jemea Thomas CB practice squad addition
    9/2 Josh Brent NT suspended, 10 games (NFL Personal Conduct Policy)
    9/2 Brian Waters G retired
    9/1 Nikita Whitlock RB practice squad addition from Bengals
    9/1 Ahmad Dixon S cut
    9/1 C.J. Spillman S signed from 49ers
    9/1 Jemea Thomas CB cut
    9/1 Korey Toomer LB signed from Seahawks
    9/1 Justin Green CB cut
    9/1 Zach Minter DT cut
    9/1 Johnny Thomas S cut
    9/1 Justin Green CB Taken off IR, shoulder
    9/1 Johnny Thomas S Taken off IR, undisclosed
    9/1 Zach Minter DT Taken off IR, undisclosed
    9/1 Tim Benford WR practice squad addition
    9/1 Kenneth Boatright DE practice squad addition
    9/1 Ronald Patrick G practice squad addition
    9/1 Micah Pellerin S practice squad addition from Titans
    9/1 Keith Smith LB practice squad addition
    9/1 Will Smith LB practice squad addition
    9/1 Ryan Williams RB practice squad addition
     
  2. sureletsrace

    sureletsrace Official CZ Homer

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    Literal answer, yes.

    Behind the scenes? I think it's safe to say there are others making most of the decisions now.
     
  3. AsthmaField

    AsthmaField Outta bounds

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    It is the work of Jerry Jones while being very heavily influenced by Jason Garrett.

    He has always listened to people in the organization some. Now however, he really trusts Jason and his vision for what he wants the franchise to be.

    Garrett has wanted smart, tough players since the day he became head coach. He wanted to get rid of old, high priced guys who didn't play up to their contract anymore, and he wanted guys who love to play football.

    This team is an almost perfect reflection of everything that Garrett hold dear in a football player.

    Garrett deserves our thanks.
     
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  4. CowboyChris

    CowboyChris Well-Known Member

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    exactly....who is behind the scenes that scouts a player like WR Reggie Dunn to our PS? not to be a hater or anything but I doubt Jerry even knew who that was. lol
     
  5. BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

    BringBackThatOleTimeBoys Benched

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    I certainly hope Jerry is letting others run things more - even if he continues to talk waaaay too much as if he is....it infuriates me when he opinions on everything as it suggests he still meddles too much on football matters.
     
  6. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he is the GM. And he uses a committee of people to make the decision they feel benefits the organization most. Just like every GM in the league does and he's done this for years. Cowboys fans really buy into the media narrative of Jerry the evil owner who makes all of the decisions. It's about as ludicrous as Jimmy claiming he made all of the decisions while he was here.




    YR
     
  7. MissouriCowboy

    MissouriCowboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Scouting department has a big say in what happens.
     
  8. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    If Jerry was handing out his business card, yes, his job titles would include General Manager.

    As far as 99% of the personnel moves? Absolutely not. This team is built to the coaching staff's and scouting department's schematics. Jason Garrett arrived and wanted to create the Dallas Cowboys of the Landry and Jimmy eras. So far, so good. Still a lot of work to be done on the defensive side of the ball, though.

    tl;dr, yes, every owner is the GM of their respective football teams. You're crazy if you think you wouldn't have some say in what happens in your multi-billion dollar company.
     
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  9. BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

    BringBackThatOleTimeBoys Benched

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    So you are suggesting Cowboy fans frustrated with Jerry are duped by the sports media? I politely differ on this. Reality is this team's record 1997-2013 - disappointing with the exception of the shot in the arm Parcells gave - Big Bill was hired over concerns the new stadium otherwise would not be built. A record that's on par with Detroit and Cleveland on many levels. The other thing is Jerry's pandering for attention - stuff like he really, really wanted Manziel, or the Cowboys is the biggest TV show. Hiring assistant coaches before or without the say of the HC. A 72-year old behaving like a 2-year old that can't get enough attention. Jerry's image has been brought upon himself.

    Do I expect any NFL owner in 2014 to be as hands-off like Clint Murchison? No. Is Murchison's model in general good? It works for Kraft and Rooney - both were more hands-on and then let go - it worked. Of course I expect some owner involvement when a player is signed for tens of millions. But do most owners pick the players and the staff of the HC? Back in the late 70's the Dallas Morning News bragged the Cowboys were not one of those teams.

    Perhaps Jerry is getting less involved, but it takes a long time to think an old dog is ever going to change his ways. And I still think the Cowboys would have been more successful if Jerry had been less involved and delegated more to football minds. Won't be suprized if a few homers just tell me to shut up and put up with Jerry - that's driven me farther away.
     
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  10. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly. The GM sets the basic philosophical direction the team moves towards. They are mainly responsible for hiring and firing the Head Coach. And in today's corporate world, the GM has to deal with human resources and other things like the details of how the payments to the player are going to make (how much, how many installments, when those payments occur, etc).

    So Jerry deserves blame because he's responsible for that direction and responsible for hiring the head coach. Chan Gailey is a mediocre head coach. Dave Campo is a terrible head coach. Bill Parcells is a great head coach that was past his prime. Wade Phillips has some strong points, but in the end he is more of an X's and O's guy than a coaching technique guy.

    Jerry is also in charge of the basic philosophical direction of the team. So, he certainly deserves some blame for that.

    The issue is that the media and the fans have this perception that he makes moves based on a whim and that everything he does is going to be wrong and that he overrules coaches and scouts just to get his way. It makes for a convenient and easy narrative, but that's just not how the way it works and outside of Al Davis and Ditka in New Orleans, I don't think anybody has acted in the fashion that the media and the fans tend to believe. I think the same could even be said for Daniel Snyder.

    If you look at Tom Coughlin's teams where he has changed general managers a few times, his teams just happen to be very good at drafting, even when he was in Jacksonville. Is Tom Coughlin just the luckiest coach out there? Hardly. But, what he does know how to do is develop talent.

    If you really follow the draft enough and talk to actual scouts, you will start to see that virtually all of the teams will give a similar draft grade on players. So 'getting a steal' in the draft is a bit of a fallacy because it is really more about the coach's ability to develop a player, getting the player in the right scheme for their talents, and getting a little lucky with their health more than it is about 'having an eye for talent.'


    Dallas' record since 1997 is nowhere near the record that Cleveland and Detroit have had. The only similarity is the lack of playoff wins. But, during the regular season we have a better record than the majority of teams in the NFL.

    And we had a 13-3 and 11-5 season under Wade. In fact, the Cowboys went 33-15 in Wade's first three seasons. Even for all of the complaining about going 8-8 under Garrett the first three years of his coaching reign, that's still a better record than the majority of teams in the NFL over the past 3 seasons.


    Kraft is just as hands on as Jerry is. He has a far better coach than what Dallas has had over the years.

    Rooney is usually hands off, but was the same group of people that tried to force Bruce Arians into retirement when he didn't want to retire.

    If you dig far enough, you will find dirt on all of these owners.

    Either way, I'm still in favor of Jerry giving up his GM duties. I just think it's too difficult for a person to be an owner/GM/President. Tex Schramm really wasn't a GM in terms of finding talent and really played a role closer to what Jerry plays more than what say Ted Thompson plays in Green Bay. But, back then the NFL and Corporate America was a different animal, so he had more free time and could focus on providing Gil Brandt with the best and most up-to-date resources possible. He could also do the same for Tom Landry.

    To me, that's the real issue with Jerry. Today's corporate climate makes it impossible to do all things extremely well at once. And I think it's where we have lagged behind in certain key parts of the league such as training, conditioning, advanced analytics, etc. I have not had an issue with Jerry finding talent on the roster for a long time. How that talent has been utilized and developed is a different story.







    YR
     
  11. roughneck266

    roughneck266 Well-Known Member

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    If you toss him the blame for the bad ones, you have to credit him for the good ones. The reality of it is: I think he always got input from others, and I believe he still does.
     
  12. nablives

    nablives Active Member

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    He still gets the final say, no matter what group gets to chime in on talent acquisition. So in that respect, yeah, he's the GM.
     
  13. BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

    BringBackThatOleTimeBoys Benched

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    I'll answer some of this.

    Parcells was not without his shortcomings

    I found it very strange Big Bill called Kraft meddling, yet spoke well of Jones - does not compute. Both Parcells and Kraft said they learned from that football divorce ( see http://www.boston.com/globe/packages/year_in_review/sports/parcellsquits.htm ) For the short attention span members, imagine if Jimmy was interviewing for Miami during Super Bowl week and Dallas lost bad in the big game? :mad: That kind of sums up how Parcells left NE. Back to my point: I just can't picture Belichick having a free reign in Dallas, so Kraft must have learned more from his football divorce than Jones.
     
  14. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

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    Why does everyone want to pick 1997-2013? I mean I know that keeps it a nice 136-136 (if my math is correct)

    Why not use his whole ownership time from 89-present? 220-187 That would be more accurate when discussing a thread about Jerry the GM.

    Or start after Jimmy left? 188-155 That would be more accurate for those that think Jimmy was in complete control.

    Or reflective of the current team since 2003 when Witten and Romo joined? 103-80


    All three of those would seem like much better choices. Now maybe there is a perfectly reasonable reason to pick '97 and I just haven't realized it. Otherwise seems the only goal is to claim average (or mediocre) and pick an arbitrary year to where the numbers add up perfectly

    Disclaimer: My math could be off due to fat fingering.
     
  15. BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

    BringBackThatOleTimeBoys Benched

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    ^ Fact is Jerry has been trying to prove he can single-handedly mastermind a SB without anyone like Jimmy, so 1997-2013 has been used to point out he's failed for a very long time...if it were anything but sports there would be no debate this is a failure. And it's definitely well short of 1966-1983 and 1992-1996.
     
  16. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

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    Then start your numbers in 93 when Jimmy left and "Jerry the Dictator" took over.
     
  17. BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

    BringBackThatOleTimeBoys Benched

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    Can't have it both ways. To be scientific, it's has to be a few years after Jimmy left, so 97 may have been too soon.

    You are proving something, but not what you want. In any business outside sports, a defense of an executive that can't pick management and personnel like Jerry would be fatal a lot sooner.

    A question for your to squirm out of: who has Bill Belichick discussed talent with - Jimmy or Jerry?
     
  18. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

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    It has to be a few years later to be scientific? Oh... it has to be after the first losing season. I see. Got it. There's nothing "scientific" about that. It's cherry picking data to try and support your argument. Plain and simple.

    I'm proving you subscribe to an arbitrary date in order to "justify" your desire for Jerry to be the big bad.

    I don't know who he has discussed talent. I've never asked nor do I actually care.
     
  19. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    A lot of people hated my thread about how football teams operate. Little by little, stuff comes out that proves I was actually on point.

    Ain't karma a hoot?
     
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  20. BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

    BringBackThatOleTimeBoys Benched

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    Willful ignorance.

    In case you honestly don't know, read up...I first saw this video here, so you should have seen it.



    ...in regards to the video, Jerry is suffering from a hammer concussion. :eek:

    You seem to suggest Jerry was at least mostly responsible for the SBs of the 90's and Jimmy was along for the ride, but strangely Jerry has not remotely duplicated that for nearly 20 years - good luck explaining that without seeming drunk, a troll, on the Jones payroll, related to the Joneses.

    P.S. the sig picture parodying Jones as Kim Song il is not because he runs the Cowboys with an iron fist, but because he panders for worship. Seriously, who needs that kind of attention?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
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