Is there room for a grey area on this board?

SDogo

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I'm not overly thrilled with the possibility of Turner being named HC but I'm not so against it that I'm willing to write him off with out giving him a chance. There are far worst options out there. I have read both ides of the argument and I won't say one side is wrong or right but it just pains me to see so many Cowboys fans giving up on the fight before the bell has even rung.
 

Aikbach

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Wait and see is an aspect of hope but some here have bought into the sensationalism of our modern culture, everthing has to be a melodramatic production.

I just want someone to be hired so we can be done with it, the legacy of having only one man ever coach the team is long gone, hiring a coach isn't as unique an event as it once was for this franchise.

Let us see if the next chap can return Dallas to glory, I'll support any reasonable choice and all those interviewed thus far have been reasonable candidates.
 

SDogo

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Aikbach;1345633 said:
Wait and see is an aspect of hope but some here have bought into the sensationalism of our modern culture, everthing has to be a melodramatic production.

I just want someone to be hired so we can be done with it, the legacy of having only one man ever coach the team is long gone, hiring a coach isn't as unique an event as it once was for this franchise.

Let us see if the next chap can return Dallas to glory, I'll support any reasonable choice and all those interviewed thus far have been reasonable candidates.

With all the bickering it's great to hear someone still has their head on straight. I'm willing to give whoever gets the job a chance. It's obvious by the names being tossed around this is just a stepping stone to a bigger plan or I hope it is. I favor Phillips a tad more then Norv but not enough to get caught up in all this drama.
 

Ratmatt

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HomeOfLegends;1345629 said:
I'm not overly thrilled with the possibility of Turner being named HC but I'm not so against it that I'm willing to write him off with out giving him a chance. There are far worst options out there. I have read both ides of the argument and I won't say one side is wrong or right but it just pains me to see so many Cowboys fans giving up on the fight before the bell has even rung.
I agree with you.I'm not crazy about hiring Norv either,but if that happens,I will totally back him.
 

BigDFan5

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HomeOfLegends;1345629 said:
I'm not overly thrilled with the possibility of Turner being named HC but I'm not so against it that I'm willing to write him off with out giving him a chance. There are far worst options out there. I have read both ides of the argument and I won't say one side is wrong or right but it just pains me to see so many Cowboys fans giving up on the fight before the bell has even rung.


I am against hiring Norv, that doesnt mean I wont supporting if he is hired, because I will just as I support all Cowboys.

If he succeeds I will be happy as hell

If he fails I will be sad


I will never give up the fight, and I will never hope for his failure so I can "be right" I hope he wins the superbowl, I just have my doubts
 

SDogo

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BigDFan5;1345673 said:
I am against hiring Norv, that doesnt mean I wont supporting if he is hired, because I will just as I support all Cowboys.

If he succeeds I will be happy as hell

If he fails I will be sad


I will never give up the fight, and I will never hope for his failure so I can "be right" I hope he wins the superbowl, I just have my doubts

I just have never seen so many people at each others throats at one time. The negativity is making this place a real drag right now.
 

smarta5150

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I am in the grey.

I was all about overhauling by eliminating Parcells and Zimmer and that is done.

So whatever happens happens now.

I beleive we couldnt get any worse considering the talent on our team.

We are considerably stacked in a lot of areas and all its gonna take is a guy with half a brain.

So I am hoping all will be well.
 

BigDFan5

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HomeOfLegends;1345676 said:
I just have never seen so many people at each others throats at one time. The negativity is making this place a real drag right now.


you werent here for the TO signing huh? lol
 

smarta5150

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HomeOfLegends;1345676 said:
I just have never seen so many people at each others throats at one time. The negativity is making this place a real drag right now.

I feel you man.

This is why I havent really been doing as much posting as I usually do.

It just seems a little like anarchy around here :bang2:
 

SDogo

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BigDFan5;1345680 said:
you werent here for the TO signing huh? lol

I might have been but it was not till mid season I started to post much. I was sort of numbed by the TO signing and really expected it long before it happened.

You guys, "sucked" me in and now I'm in the middle of this mess.;)
 

SDogo

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smarta5150;1345681 said:
I feel you man.

This is why I havent really been doing as much posting as I usually do.

It just seems a little like anarchy around here :bang2:

Exactly, I'm not saying we all need to hold hands and sing songs together but it would be nice to see everyone pull together if this is Jerry's choice and show some support. I hate to think what this would do to our already weak showings at home games if the feeling continue into the season.
 

Bleu Star

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smarta5150;1345681 said:
I feel you man.

This is why I haven't really been doing as much posting as I usually do.

It just seems a little like anarchy around here :bang2:

Yeah I noticed that too. It has been crazy ever since they named Norv as the front runner. I come to the board and it's Norv this Norv that. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It really makes for a reading experience which totally mirrors the coach they're all battling over. Borriinnggg.

I'm in the gray too. Although he underwhelms me, I will support him if he's named as our next HC.
 

smarta5150

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Bleu Star;1345690 said:
Yeah I noticed that too. It has been crazy ever since they named Norv as the front runner. I come to the board and it's Norv this Norv that. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It really makes for a reading experience which totally mirrors the coach they're all battling over. Borriinnggg.

I'm in the gray too. Although he underwhelms me, I will support him if he's named as our next HC.

I am gonna start Merriman/Ware threads along with a couple TO ones :rolleyes:
 

Aikbach

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Instead of grey how about we refer to it as silver for the sake of Cowboy colors, HUZZAH! Bedtime.
 

Bleu Star

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smarta5150;1345693 said:
I am gonna start Merriman/Ware threads along with a couple TO ones :rolleyes:

:D Nothing gets the blood flowing like a good Merriman.Ware debate or a TO sucks thread. Norv did say the following which I was happy to hear since in order to make this work he is going to have to work well with all of the players including TO.

“I want to coach good players,” Turner said. “When you get into a situation in terms of being with a new team there’s an evaluation process and there’s a lot of things that go into it. I like the players that are here and T.O. is one of them.”
 

igtmfo

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Norv is not the valedictorian, or saluditorian, or National Merit Scholar. (I guess B. Walsh and Belichick would be so honored, and could make a speech at the graduation ceremony .... )

Norv is like a student in the "pass/fail" grading system.

He just keeps "getting promoted."

His "timing-based" system I'm afraid will ruin Tony Romo's instincts, Tony has his own "timing"

Every freaking Cowboys fan reaches for "why the Cowboys were great" and dominated the early 90s.

The reason is the front office and scouts then.

Let me say it again on this board .. better yet let me quote the late PFW genius Joel Buchsbaum on why the Cowboys were great: and it WASN'T because of Jimmy, Gil Brandt, Jerry or even sorry to say, Tom ... it was mainly due to the unsung "real genius" 1985-1992 (with some gaps), the "Superscout" Dick Mansperger ...

"Owners should think twice about giving head coaches too much power
By Joel Buchsbaum
Aug. 30, 2002

The league is undergoing a trend now where many owners stop appreciating the personnel departments and make the coaches the superstars. This originally started in Dallas with Jimmy Johnson, where Johnson got the reputation as a brilliant personnel man.

In part, he deserved those accolades, but Dallas also had a brilliant scouting staff led by Dick Mansperger, with people such as Jeff Smith and Bob Ackles assisting.

The reason the Cowboys dropped off — although it took a few years — was because they did a poor job of drafting and trading after they dismantled key portions of the scouting staff. ......"

(My commentary ... Jerry fired Ackles and another stellar pro-personnel-evaluator, forgot his name and lack the will to google at this point ..

Though the super-genius Mansperger was only 58, Jerry gave him "at least" a buy-out so he could save front-office salary ... after all Jerry and Jimmy were the real "geniuses" of the Cowboys. ;;;; ; NOT !!
 

igtmfo

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Oops I slipped the above post ... here's the 2nd best post about Mansperger, drat I've lost the best one ... just compare the Cboys best years against his years with the Boys ... and how he and Ackels brought the Seahawks to the playoffs in a couple of years ... before free agency was a reality ...

April 29, 1992

Mansperger quits as Cowboys' scouting director

Author: Mike Fisher; Star-Telegram Writer

IRVING - Dick Mansperger yesterday resigned his position as the Dallas Cowboys' director of college scouting to enter private business and praised the new regime for invigorating "both me and the Cowboys."

"That's why it may seem strange to be doing this now," said Mansperger, who after 28 years of National Football League scouting will "pursue a lifelong dream" by owning and operating an instructional clinic for coaches. "(Coach Jimmy Johnson and owner Jerry Jones) have been super. They are awesome. Jimmy is truly brilliant. Jerry's kindness is overwhelming. He has all the right stuff.

"I want to leave while you can feel the positive, winning vibes around here. I don't want to be the old heavyweight hanging on, drawing a pension check," said Mansperger, 58.

The Cowboys would not say if there are plans to replace Mansperger, who joins former pro personnel director John Wooten as the second executive to leave the department! in a year. Jones said he might seek to retain Mansperger as a consultant.

"I'll do anything I can for Jerry Jones," said Mansperger, who then joked, "I don't know what in the world anybody would need to consult me about."

After coaching at the college level, Mansperger joined the Dallas staff as a scout in 1965. He coached at Iowa in 1966 before returning to the Cowboys, where he worked until 1976, when he took the personnel director job with the Seattle Seahawks. He returned to Dallas in 1984, and four years ago was put in charge of college scouting.

"My appreciation for Dick's work is a direct reflection of the quality of drafts we've had since we became part of the Cowboys three years ago," Jones said. "We will miss him."

In his years with both the Seahawks and Cowboys, Mansperger was credited by his peers as having an encyclopedic knowledge of college players, a talent that earned him national media recognition. His memory served! him well when asked about his most notable moments in pro football:

"When I shut my eyes, I can see our games in the Cotton Bowl, Bob Hayes setting records, Jim Boeke jumping offsides in a championship game, fans mobbing our bus so Calvin Hill can't get in, Don Meredith getting hit to cost us a championship, Walt Garrison getting out of a hospital bed to play brilliantly, Jimmy Taylor getting flipped by Mike Gaechter, Steve Largent beating world-class sprinters while he was the slowest receiver in the league . . . Bubba Smith recovering a phantom fumble, Bob Lilly chasing Bob Griese in the Super Bowl, Bob Hayes moving up his wedding date so he wouldn't get called into (military) duty. I can close my eyes and see a lot of things."

Mansperger will run the business with longtime friend Gene Felker, a former Dallas Texans player who recently served as an NFL Alumni executive. The coaching clinics will kick off June 5-7 in the Hurst-Euless-Beford area and will concentrate not only on how to teach people to teach sports, but als! o on youth-related topics such as drugs and gangs. The sessions will be videotaped by Panasonic, which is underwriting the project, and made available to interested coaches.

"It's a chance to give something back," Mansperger said. "It's an idea we've been cooking up for 30 years. And really, my enthusiasm for the venture was reinforced by Jimmy and Jerry. They've refreshed in me the feeling I grew up with - that if you refuse to be beaten, it makes you a tough mark."

Mansperger called the first clinic "an off-Broadway event" and said the goal is to expand to six clinics nationwide. Cowboys officials said there is no doubt Mansperger will succeed.

"Dick is a very disciplined individual, an extremely hard worker," said Cowboys executive Bob Ackles, a friend for 16 years. "He was so devoted, he had no home life whatsoever."

Part of that may change now, Mansperger said.

"Maybe now I'll find time to plant a rose, or to go see a m! ovie," he said. "Because I never made the time outside of work, I have n't seen a movie in a theater since I was a little kid."

Briefly

While the Cowboys continued the process of signing their top five picks, they began dealing with agents of the other 10 picks yesterday. . . . The draftees will be in Dallas tomorrow to participate in a minicamp Friday through Sunday at Valley Ranch. The teams' veterans will stay on through May 8 for quarterback school. . . . The Cowboys agreed to terms with seven rookie free agents: running back Michael Beasley of West Virginia; defensive lineman Swift Burch of Temple; guard Melvin Evans of Texas Southern; tight end-tackle Patt Evans of Minnesota; tight end Harold Heath of Jackson State; defensive back Michael James of Arkansas; and Terry Tilton of Angelo State.

Copyright 1992, 1994 STAR-TELEGRAM INC.
Record Number: FWST87016
 

SteamedSoup

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I think what bothers most of the people who oppose the Norv Turner hire is the way Jerry is going about it. He's not bringing in people who are widely regarded in the football world as viable head coaching candidates right now -- which I guess that's his right to do whatever he wants as an owner and a G.M., but there is a reason why Jerry is considered a joke as a G.M.

If Al Davis or Dan Snyder hired some former backup QB with only two years coaching experience on any level (with no history of playcalling) as a coordinator before he hired his head coach, we'd be rolling in the aisles laughing at it. If it leaked that the guy was even a candidate for their head coaching gig, we'd laugh harder. But since it's Jerry doing it, and since we like Garrett personally, we try talking ourselves into thinking it's not a total joke.

In 2000, Campo landed the job basically because his only competition was Avezano, the special teams coach. That, friends, was a sham of a coaching search. If Turner lands the job just because a couple ex-players vouched for him and because he inspired more confidence than Wade Phillips and Gary Gibbs, I'll call that sham of a coaching search and I'll have no reason to expect it to go any better than our last sham of a coaching search.

Also, I think a lot of the people who oppose the Norv Turner hire wonder why we don't use the big job title to lure in someone who will fix the defense -- the area of the team which is actually broken. I'm sure Garrett is a smart guy, but he wasn't in demand for head coaching spots; he was in demand for coordinator gigs -- and that's what made him such a hot name? Excuse me, but Todd Haley got snapped up as a coordinator the second he was allowed to be snapped up. I guess we already had a hot name on the staff. This reeks of Jerry trying to duplicate Sean Payton by bringing in a young former QB to the staff with an eye toward the future (and we know how well the Jack Reilly hire went when he tried to duplicate the Rams' offense, or how well Coslet worked out when we tried to duplicate the Eagles' WCO).

Another thing that bugs me are the people who ripped Parcells' lukewarm results here, and then curiously supported the hiring of Turner. Turner's head coaching career has been much worse than Parcells. And you can't discount that by throwing around names like Snyder and Davis, because guess what -- those are the two owners Jerry is most like.

I think people who like it only like it because they're clinging to the past. But if Norv could so easily piece together another offense like the Cowboys of the early 90's, don't you think he'd have done it already and saved his skin in DC or Oakland (or Miami or San Diego, or wherever he was a coordinator)?

And after Parcells brought in former Giants greats to teach his system or talk talk to the players, I think some people just want someone who will genuflect on the star (even if they go 5-11 while they're doing it... or, more likely, 6-10, because Turner ought to be able to do at least 1 better than Campo).
 

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HomeOfLegends;1345629 said:
I'm not overly thrilled with the possibility of Turner being named HC but I'm not so against it that I'm willing to write him off with out giving him a chance. There are far worst options out there. I have read both ides of the argument and I won't say one side is wrong or right but it just pains me to see so many Cowboys fans giving up on the fight before the bell has even rung.

It's not my fight.

I'm just a spectator waiting for the bell to ring to start Round 37 of this bout I started watching in 1970.

(I'll list the parade of card girls later)
 
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