Is this the greatest team ever?

LaTunaNostra

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Nors said:
They win this years SB the gap narrows and they are at that level.
No, they will be the greatest success of the age of parity (so far), which is no mean feat, but far from the 'best ever".

Tho they manage to play up to the competition on a weekly basis, mark of a very good team, they are no juggernaut.
 

Nors

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LaTunaNostra said:
No, they will be the greatest success of the age of parity (so far), which is no mean feat, but far from the 'best ever".

Tho they manage to play up to the competition on a weekly basis, mark of a very good team, they are no juggernaut.


You could say after the late 60's the league was watered down too. By your criteria there will never be a great team? To win 18 games straight in any era is amazing.

I take these Pat teams over some of the previous era's best. But that can't happen!
 

LaTunaNostra

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Nors said:
. By your criteria there will never be a great team?

I didn't say that.

I just take issue with "the greatest".

BIG issue, as an NFL fan who's been a fan since the early seventies.

The Jimmy Johnson Cowboys were in fact, a "greater team" more dominant, and for now, more successful. Among others.

A "great team", watered down competition or not, should dominate. Maybe not every game, but certainly not give you the feeling they are eeking out wins by barely rising to the occasion.
 

dbair1967

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Nors said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20041003002&prov=ap/

2 of 3 SB's, 18 game win streak. One of the greatest XandO's coach ever.

They are getting close to being looked at that way?

72 Dolphins, Packers in 60's, Steelers Late 70's, San Fran team 80's, Dallas 90's. Pats 01/04 closest thing to a dynasty since Cowboys?

very good team, but watered down league...not greatest team ever by far though

if you want to take the Pats and let me take the "field" for who wins the super bowl this yr, I'm game...

David
 

dbair1967

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Nors said:
You could say after the late 60's the league was watered down too. By your criteria there will never be a great team? To win 18 games straight in any era is amazing.

I take these Pat teams over some of the previous era's best. But that can't happen!

you'd take them and get squashed Nors...

I could take Buffalo's 4 time AFC Champions and beat this Pats team handily...the Pats are very good, but not even among the top-10 best teams IMO and its really not close either

David
 
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The simple fact is this Patriots team is not even close to being able to beat any of those teams you mentioned above. It's the age of parity, and they're not even dominant. You see 2 of 3 Super Bowls, I see a team that should have been beaten on a fumble to Oakland in the 01 playoffs, and a team that got away with a ton of game changing pass interference last year in the afc championship to a team that outplayed them. They would have started 0-1 this year if James didn't fumble away 2 touchdowns, and the Bills stayed with them all the way until the end of the game this past week.

The bottom line is, they're barely beating teams. Not dominating them. Besides, the Cowboys won 3 of 4 and should have gone to 4 straight bowls. The pats went what, 7-9 in the year between their 2 super bowl runs.
 

Nors

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LaTunaNostra said:
I didn't say that.

I just take issue with "the greatest".

BIG issue, as an NFL fan who's been a fan since the early seventies.

The Jimmy Johnson Cowboys were in fact, a "greater team" more dominant, and for now, more successful. Among others.

A "great team", watered down competition or not, should dominate. Maybe not every game, but certainly not give you the feeling they are eeking out wins by barely rising to the occasion.

The 90's teams of Dallas would easily beat this Pats team.
Pats are almost always ahead, I wonder how many times they were behind in the second half of this 18 game streak?
 

Nors

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Joshmvii said:
The simple fact is this Patriots team is not even close to being able to beat any of those teams you mentioned above. It's the age of parity, and they're not even dominant. You see 2 of 3 Super Bowls, I see a team that should have been beaten on a fumble to Oakland in the 01 playoffs, and a team that got away with a ton of game changing pass interference last year in the afc championship to a team that outplayed them. They would have started 0-1 this year if James didn't fumble away 2 touchdowns, and the Bills stayed with them all the way until the end of the game this past week.

The bottom line is, they're barely beating teams. Not dominating them. Besides, the Cowboys won 3 of 4 and should have gone to 4 straight bowls. The pats went what, 7-9 in the year between their 2 super bowl runs.

I'm not so sure they can't play with Dolphins in early 70's. Some of those San Fran teams too. Time will tell if they can add on more Trophies.
 

Nors

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Pats top Miami for record 19th straight win


NFL.com wire reports



FOXBORO, Mass. (Oct. 10, 2004) -- Bill Belichick let a rare smile crease his face before reminding his New England Patriots what their record winning streak meant.

Video highlights


The celebration is on as the Patriots break the NFL record for most consecutive wins.
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"He said, 'Congratulations on the streak, great job. Now we've got to think about Seattle,'" safety Rodney Harrison said.

At least their dour coach, who downplayed the streak all season, gave the Patriots some time to savor their NFL record 19th straight win, 24-10 over the winless Miami Dolphins on Sunday, before they start preparing for their next game against the Seahawks.

"It doesn't mean anything right now because we are still in the middle of the season," cornerback Ty Law said in a very quiet locker room. "The fruit will taste a little bit sweeter if we can give ourselves an opportunity to play for another championship."

The Patriots (4-0) won with two touchdown passes by Tom Brady, who had his worst statistical start as a pro, and two turnovers by offensively inept Miami.

The Dolphins trailed 24-10 before reaching the New England 1-yard line on their last series. But quarterback Jay Fiedler hurt his ribs and back on a 12-yard sack and, two plays later, A.J. Feeley suffered a concussion as he threw a fourth-down incompletion and was hit by Rosevelt Colvin.

This Miami team is nothing like the one that no longer shares the record with five other teams. That one went 17-0 in 1972 and won its opener in 1973.

"As a player, you don't think about what (the Patriots) are doing," Miami defensive end Jason Taylor said. "We've got our own things to worry about."

The Dolphins fell to 0-5, matching their worst start as an expansion team in 1966, when they won their sixth game.

New England, which can match its franchise best 5-0 start next Sunday, had shared the 18-game record with Chicago in 1933-34 and again in 1941-42; Miami in 1972-73; San Francisco in 1989-90; and Denver in 1997-98.

"They're some great teams and it's nice to be a part of that," linebacker Tedy Bruschi said, but "during the season the only milestone that teams want is the Super Bowl. "

The Dolphins' problems began before the game when placekicker Olindo Mare left the field on a cart with an injured right calf. They continued until the end when Fiedler and Feeley were hurt.

"We felt good about moving the ball," said Fiedler, who had X-rays and didn't know if he would play next week, "but you look on the scoreboard and you only see 10 points."

Miami added to its NFL-high 14 turnovers and scored just one touchdown to add to its total of two in the first four games. Only its defense, strong all year, kept the game somewhat competitive.


Tom Brady and the Patriots have topped Miami three times during their 19-game win streak.
The Patriots played without injured receivers Deion Branch and Troy Brown, and another one, Bethel Johnson, was inactive. But they led 10-0 on Brady's 1-yard pass to Daniel Graham in the first quarter and Adam Vinatieri 's 40-yard field goal early in the second.

Still, Brady finished at 7 for 19 for 76 yards and an interception..

"We didn't do the things we set out to do," tackle Matt Light said of the offense. "Defense helped us out a lot."

Miami cut that to 10-7 when Fielder threw a 10-yard pass to Chris Chambers.

Then a strange play -- punter Matt Turk's failed run for a first down -- gave the Patriots the ball at the Dolphins 46. Six plays later, Brady hit David Givens for a 5-yard score 36 seconds before halftime.

"He said the snap was a little bit high, but you need to kick the ball," coach Dave Wannstedt said of Turk. "I don't think anyone was rushing him."

Fiedler's fumble on the first series of the third quarter led to Rabih Abdullah's 1-yard touchdown run, making it 24-7.

Rookie kick returner Wes Welker, Mare's replacement who missed his only extra-point kick in college, added a 29-yard field goal that made it 24-10 late in the quarter.

"I played soccer since I was about 4, so that really helped a lot," Welker said.

Miami needed Mare when, with a fourth-and-11 at the New England 21, the Dolphins had to go for a first down and Fiedler threw an incompletion in the end zone with 10:01 left.

If the Patriots beat Seattle, they'll tie the mark of 17 consecutive regular-season wins by the Bears in 1933-34. And if they beat the New York Jets the following Sunday, they'll break that record, too.

But the players weren't thinking about that -- not when Belichick actually acknowledged the 19-game record by shaking their hands on the sideline.

"He rarely celebrates anything," Harrison said, "and to lead a team to 19 victories in a row is something to be proud of."

NOTES: Commissioner Paul Tagliabue issued a statement saying, "The Patriots' achievement is not only unprecedented but also remarkable when you consider how competitive our league is today. Congratulations to the entire Patriots organization on this extraordinary milestone." ... The Dolphins outgained the Patriots 295 yards to 204.
 

Nors

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This is becoming dominant, no has ever done that..........

EC 8 TACKLES :mad:
 

Nors

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Up to what 27 of last 28 or something crazy?

2 of last 3 seasons - Super Bowls.

Winning with serious injury issues in secondary.


That said - Fins will win tonight?
 

kmp77

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The Cowboys, Bills and 49ers of the early 90s would all beat them easily.
 

TheDuke

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Nors said:
That said - Fins will win tonight?

just might happen...phins up by 1 with 1:23 left. NE just got the ball back on their own 24.
 

Nors

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Pats 2 of last 3 Super Bowls. Went 14-2 this season.

Three more wins and this is a Dynasty and a Hall of Fame QB.

Can Manning derail that? I say - maybe
Word is Seymour will NOT play and if he does will not be a force. Look for Jarvis Green to step in. The Pats gameplan is to move Eugene Wilson to Cornerback more than normal. Confuse Eli on where safety really is. They will be playing LB's at Safety a lot...... Try and punish Indy receivers. They can get some Gator arms going. Bellicheck likes to get after Manning a lot like Bledsoe. Pressure up the middle. Last season game Pats had corner and a safety behind Marvin Harrison every play. They basically frustrated him out of the game. I think Colts best chance to win is to run the ball. Is Dungy smart enough to adapt and alter a gameplan? No, he'll do what he's done all season Arrogant if he does.
 

Maikeru-sama

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Personally, if Brady can play for a few more years and he doesn't win a title again, I think he gets into the hall of fame.

I think last year's patriots could possibly give the 1995 Cowboys a run for their money, but there is no way they could defeat the 92 or 93 Cowboys because of the depth we had.

I think the 70s' Steelers, the 49er's of the late 80s', and the 1985 and 1986 Bears would all dominate the Patriots. There are alot more teams that I am missing, but back in those days, there weren't as many teams and therefore you could stockpile talent.

Pats are good in a watered down league, but noway are they the best ever.

- Mike G.
 

jem88

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The Pats aren't in the same league as the early 90's Cowboys or 49ers (the fact that the Bills couldn't rise to the occasion places them below this Pats team), the Steelers and Cowboys of the 70's or the 49ers of the 80's. However, if they win this year, I think Bellichick certainly deserves a spot in the pantheon of all time greats. To do what he's done with less than astounding personnel, speaks volumes about him.
 
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