It still blows my mind how this team doesn't run a 3-4 defense

Pressures are very subjective. if you get the QB to step up in the pocket or move at all, that is a pressure

To those QBs that have happy feet and get nervous, pressures matter

to the best QBs that so called pressure is a minor annoyance
 
gtb1943 said:
tackles, dude; you keep trying to divert by bringing in DE;s
Click to expand...
Because the subject of the thread is 3-4 defenses, and we started talking about interior pressure. Those 3-4 ends typically kick down inside on the guard on passing downs, and even when not are rarely lined up outside the tackle. 3-4 ends play much more like 4-3 DTs than 4-3 Ends. Those guys are typically considered interior players. Thats my entire argument on why I'd be hesitant to switch to a 3-4....You have to find 3+ guys inside who can both eat block in the run game, and get after the QB. Finding LBs has never been easier for a 4LB system with the athletes that are being cranked out of school that are 6'4" 250LBS running 4.5s and better, but those guys up front are highly sought after and tough to find as they typically have position flex to fit any scheme.

Myles Garrett is the textbook definition of an NFL defensive end....790+ snaps outside the tackle, and fewer than 20 snaps either over the tackle or inside.
OSA is pretty much the exact opposite getting 48 A gap snaps, 790 snaps outside G/Covering the Tackle, 17 snaps outside the tackle
Zach Allen is a 3-4 DE and recorded 3 A gap snaps, 1000 G/T snaps, and 20 snaps outside the tackle....Put him on a 4-3 team and he basically becomes a 3T.
 
big dog cowboy said:
Only if you count Micah and Ez and LB's.
Click to expand...
Micah’s best was in Penn and he completely wrecked the cotton bowl (I think) single handedly.

Funny enough. He was the highest graded LB in college at run defense.

Comes to Dallas and is put into a situation where he’s going up against tackles constantly. And people wonder why he’s worn out.
 
Zekeats said:
They will still put out 3 guys who weigh less than 280 lbs and one who looks like he barely tips the scale at 300. That will never stop the run and we will continue to get gashed up the middle. If you stack 3 300lb+ interior lineman and have Micah and the 2nd rounder on the outside and Murray and Overshown in the middle this team would not only stop the run but it would allow all that speed to shine and make plays. It's a joke, the worst offseason move this team made was resigning a shrimp at DT to 20+ million a year.
Click to expand...

They aren’t built that way to run a 3-4
Don’t have the interior DLine to do so
Don’t have the DE to do so

They have the edge and linebackers
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Because the subject of the thread is 3-4 defenses, and we started talking about interior pressure. Those 3-4 ends typically kick down inside on the guard on passing downs, and even when not are rarely lined up outside the tackle. 3-4 ends play much more like 4-3 DTs than 4-3 Ends. Those guys are typically considered interior players. Thats my entire argument on why I'd be hesitant to switch to a 3-4....You have to find 3+ guys inside who can both eat block in the run game, and get after the QB. Finding LBs has never been easier for a 4LB system with the athletes that are being cranked out of school that are 6'4" 250LBS running 4.5s and better, but those guys up front are highly sought after and tough to find as they typically have position flex to fit any scheme.

Myles Garrett is the textbook definition of an NFL defensive end....790+ snaps outside the tackle, and fewer than 20 snaps either over the tackle or inside.
OSA is pretty much the exact opposite getting 48 A gap snaps, 790 snaps outside G/Covering the Tackle, 17 snaps outside the tackle
Zach Allen is a 3-4 DE and recorded 3 A gap snaps, 1000 G/T snaps, and 20 snaps outside the tackle....Put him on a 4-3 team and he basically becomes a 3T.
Click to expand...
Good post
But why do most of the top run defense teams run a base 3-4 defense? In other words, it appears that if you want to stop the run, you should switch to a 3-4.

https://nflpickwatch.com/nfl/stats/teams/total-defense/rushing-yards-allowed
 
Hawkeye0202 said:
Good post
But why do most of the top run defense teams run a base 3-4 defense? In other words, it appears that if you want to stop the run, you should switch to a 3-4.

https://nflpickwatch.com/nfl/stats/teams/total-defense/rushing-yards-allowed
Click to expand...
Absolutely, a 3-4 is a fantastic run stuffing defense. My argument is simply that its difficult to find enough players to pull it off to be effective in both the run and pass game. A lot of these 3-4 teams are giving up a lot of yardage via the pass. I might be missing one but here are the 3-4 defenses that were top 10 in run defense in 2024...

Baltimore - #1 against the run, but # 31 against the pass
Pittsburgh - #6 run, #25 pass
Denver - #3 run, #19 pass


You have to have some of these big guys on the interior who can also attack the passer at a high rate which are very difficult to find, especially if you're not using #1 round picks to do so. If you are in your base defense and a team is throwing it on you then you also have to think about which of my EDGE pass rush specialist am I keeping in coverage? Are you rushing both guys every time, essentially creating a 100% blitz percentage leaving your secondary short handed? You dropping a Mican Parsons into coverage on occasion giving him fewer chances at the QB? This is where it always gets tricky to me and in addition to the 'teams are in nickel 70% of the time anyways' argument which just makes me think the 4-3 vs 3-4 argument isn't really worth the time. Both work, both have pros & cons, but I think if the Cowboys would just address the roster with a couple stronger run defenders instead of being all in on the pass defense I doubt we are that worried about it in general.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Absolutely, a 3-4 is a fantastic run stuffing defense. My argument is simply that its difficult to find enough players to pull it off to be effective in both the run and pass game. A lot of these 3-4 teams are giving up a lot of yardage via the pass. I might be missing one but here are the 3-4 defenses that were top 10 in run defense in 2024...

Baltimore - #1 against the run, but # 31 against the pass
Pittsburgh - #6 run, #25 pass
Denver - #3 run, #19 pass


You have to have some of these big guys on the interior who can also attack the passer at a high rate which are very difficult to find, especially if you're not using #1 round picks to do so. If you are in your base defense and a team is throwing it on you then you also have to think about which of my EDGE pass rush specialist am I keeping in coverage? Are you rushing both guys every time, essentially creating a 100% blitz percentage leaving your secondary short handed? You dropping a Mican Parsons into coverage on occasion giving him fewer chances at the QB? This is where it always gets tricky to me and in addition to the 'teams are in nickel 70% of the time anyways' argument which just makes me think the 4-3 vs 3-4 argument isn't really worth the time. Both work, both have pros & cons, but I think if the Cowboys would just address the roster with a couple stronger run defenders instead of being all in on the pass defense I doubt we are that worried about it in general.
Click to expand...
Good post!!
 
Zekeats said:
They will still put out 3 guys who weigh less than 280 lbs and one who looks like he barely tips the scale at 300. That will never stop the run and we will continue to get gashed up the middle. If you stack 3 300lb+ interior lineman and have Micah and the 2nd rounder on the outside and Murray and Overshown in the middle this team would not only stop the run but it would allow all that speed to shine and make plays. It's a joke, the worst offseason move this team made was resigning a shrimp at DT to 20+ million a year.
Click to expand...
The 3-4 defense is susceptible to a a good running game. The lack of a 4th defensive lineman can create gaps for the offensive lineman to exploit making it harder to stop the run.
 
Rockport said:
The 3-4 defense is susceptible to a a good running game. The lack of a 4th defensive lineman can create gaps for the offensive lineman to exploit making it harder to stop the run.
Click to expand...
I think you're mixed up on this one Rock....3-4 was really designed to stop the run. It became a popular pass rush trend in the 2000s because it really paved the way for those tweener type DE/LBs to see the field, but any more teams will just use those guys at 4-3 ends as well.

You get three players (basically all DTs) to line up inside the tackles is a ton of man power in the middle with four athletes behind to set the edges and plug. Of the true 3-4 defenses that really get ran from last year you'll see they are often better run defenses than pass defenses. Baltimore & Pittsburgh are probably the must true forms of a 3-4 that I can think of. Denver isnt too far off. LAR/Carolina and a few others play more of a hybrid version like we had back in 2020...those are probably more in line with what you're talking about. I've never been a huge fan of those systems as they seem to use do 3-4 alignments up front with smaller 4-3 bodies and it cancels out the benefits of the 3-4 defense.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
I think you're mixed up on this one Rock....3-4 was really designed to stop the run. It became a popular pass rush trend in the 2000s because it really paved the way for those tweener type DE/LBs to see the field, but any more teams will just use those guys at 4-3 ends as well.

You get three players (basically all DTs) to line up inside the tackles is a ton of man power in the middle with four athletes behind to set the edges and plug. Of the true 3-4 defenses that really get ran from last year you'll see they are often better run defenses than pass defenses. Baltimore & Pittsburgh are probably the must true forms of a 3-4 that I can think of. Denver isnt too far off. LAR/Carolina and a few others play more of a hybrid version like we had back in 2020...those are probably more in line with what you're talking about. I've never been a huge fan of those systems as they seem to use do 3-4 alignments up front with smaller 4-3 bodies and it cancels out the benefits of the 3-4 defense.
Click to expand...
No, it’s a fact. The 3-4 has always been susceptible to a physical running game.
 
Rockport said:
No, it’s a fact. The 3-4 has always been susceptible to a physical running game.
Click to expand...
Situationally sure, but thats going to be true of any defense. If you have an offense that lives in 2TE sets and has the numbers advantage at the LOS is going to give a 3-4 fits, but you're also going to bring in different personnel as those heavy sets hit the field on offense.

If the 3-4 is susceptible to the run game why did Baltimore only allow 3.6 ypc and 80ypg last season? The year before New England gave up just 3.3ypc while they were still running a 3.3 under Belichick. It still takes good players to pull it off, but 3-4 defenses have proven they can be top tier against the run.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Situationally sure, but thats going to be true of any defense. If you have an offense that lives in 2TE sets and has the numbers advantage at the LOS is going to give a 3-4 fits, but you're also going to bring in different personnel as those heavy sets hit the field on offense.

If the 3-4 is susceptible to the run game why did Baltimore only allow 3.6 ypc and 80ypg last season? The year before New England gave up just 3.3ypc while they were still running a 3.3 under Belichick. It still takes good players to pull it off, but 3-4 defenses have proven they can be top tier against the run.
Click to expand...
I’m not going to argue back and forth. You don’t have to believe me. Do your research.
 
gtb1943 said:
when the front office is obsessed with pass rush and cares not at all with stopping the run, this is what you get

Mazi, unless he takes a HUGE step forward, is a bust

the only person we have on this team that could be a real NT is our seventh round rookie

we certainly have no one who could be 3-4 DE's
Click to expand...
Mazi took a step forward last year. He had some very good games. He just wasn't consistent all season long. It usually takes 3 years for big DL to hit their stride.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Staff online

Members online

... and 34 more.
Total: 1,221 (members: 134, guests: 1,087)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
465,668
Messages
13,890,400
Members
23,792
Latest member
Irvin_truther
Back
Top