Jason Taylor wins DPOY

[Vintage]

Merriman probably will win a DPOY before its said and done....and may even set a new sack record.

Can't wait to see this place when either happens.

 

[AbeBeta]

Merriman probably will win a DPOY before its said and done....and may even set a new sack record.

Can't wait to see this place when either happens.

I really want to see how this board reacts if that happens.

 

[bbgun]

Spears was robbed.

 

[Derinyar]

I didn't say that was the case. What I said was the we don't and won't know. There is no real evidence, only speculation. Now if you can definitively prove that he was never tested before that first positive test, then you've got some support.

Again, as I've said - I personally believe he used steroids coming out of college and likely used more than once during his NFL career. But I've got no evidence of that - and I finding highly prejudicial to punish folks for what we think they might have done -- rather than what we can prove they've done.

sigh.

 

[AbeBeta]

sigh.

god forbid someone focuses on evidence rather than beliefs.

 

[superpunk]

I said based entirely on his numbers at 12 games. You compare the players - if Merriman does nothing over those 4 other games (but played all 16) he would very likely have won.

Merriman had more sacks (17 to 13.5) -- he created fewer turnovers than Taylor. But the real kicker is this. Merriman led a defense on a team that had the best record in the NFL. Despite Taylor's work, his team went 6-10.

If you look historically, the DPOY usually comes from a successful team. If fact over the last 10 years, a player from a losing team only won the award once (Urlacher 11-5; Reed 9-7; Lewis 10-6; Brooks 12-4; Strahan 7-9; Lewis 12-4; Sapp 11-5; White 11-5; Stubblefield 13-3; Smith 10-6). That player, Mike Strahan, broke the NFL single season sack record that year.

So I'm prett comfortable saying that even if he didn't make a single play -- or hell, if he was injured and missed 4 games, that Merriman would have won the award.

Taylor led a better defense. Impacted more games. Truth is, on the Chargers, despite the hype, Merriman's really just another guy. Taylor IS the Dolphins.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Next year will tell us something -- as I understand it Merriman is now tested weekly. The benefits of past steroid use are reduced each week he doesn't take them. I'm not positive on how long you get a benefit -- but it would seem reasonable that next season he's going to have been off for long enough to be back to "natural"

I won't be surprised when he weighs about 10 pounds less and we hear the "I just wanted to lose some weight to gain some quickness" angle...

 

[AbeBeta]

Taylor led a better defense. Impacted more games. Truth is, on the Chargers, despite the hype, Merriman's really just another guy. Taylor IS the Dolphins.

But that doesn't appear to be how the voters usually roll.

 

[Vintage]

Taylor led a better defense. Impacted more games. Truth is, on the Chargers, despite the hype, Merriman's really just another guy. Taylor IS the Dolphins.

They definetly have more talent around Merriman...

But Merriman isn't JAG on the Chargers.

Give Merriman his credit. He is a great pass rusher and anything but JAG. That doesn't take anything away from Ware.

 

[aikemirv]

They definetly have more talent around Merriman...

But Merriman isn't JAG on the Chargers.

Give Merriman his credit. He is a great pass rusher and anything but JAG. That doesn't take anything away from Ware.

Sorry, Merriman does not deserve any credit until he PROVES he can do it clean!!!!

 

[superpunk]

But that doesn't appear to be how the voters usually roll.

Either way, it's speculation. Merriman played the whole season either on roids, or under suspicion of roids. It's not unreasonable to think that without them, he wouldn't have had the same numbers. I'm aware that the voters go ga-ga for sacks, but Taylor had sacks, fumbles, TDs, blocks, as the only player on a pretty nondescript defense. I have a feeling the voting would still go his way against a non-roided up Merriman.

 

[superpunk]

They definetly have more talent around Merriman...

But Merriman isn't JAG on the Chargers.

Give Merriman his credit. He is a great pass rusher and anything but JAG. That doesn't take anything away from Ware.

Ware has nothing to do with it. Noone has even brought him up.

And, maybe it's just me, but when your other OLB, who is a backup, can get 11.5 sacks in 14 games on the same defense, and you're playing with the best NT in the league, and one of the best 3-4 ends in the country, you pretty much are JAG. Especially when all your accomplishments are tainted by cheating. But yeah, he racks up sacks. Props.

 

[AbeBeta]

Either way, it's speculation. Merriman played the whole season either on roids, or under suspicion of roids. It's not unreasonable to think that without them, he wouldn't have had the same numbers. I'm aware that the voters go ga-ga for sacks, but Taylor had sacks, fumbles, TDs, blocks, as the only player on a pretty nondescript defense. I have a feeling the voting would still go his way against a non-roided up Merriman.

Didn't I say "Merriman doesn't get suspended...."

As I demonstrated voters also go "ga ga" for players on winning teams.

 

[superpunk]

Didn't I say "Merriman doesn't get suspended...."

Which ignores WHY he got suspended, and the effects that might have had on your theoretical situation. This isn't rocket science.

 

[AbeBeta]

Which ignores WHY he got suspended, and the effects that might have had on your theoretical situation. This isn't rocket science.

You are chasing your tail -- you said:

I have a feeling the voting would still go his way against a non-roided up Merriman.

I argued that wasn't the case. But now you switch back to the "he got suspended" angle. Just get your 10,000th post and lets call this horse beaten and dead.

 

[31smackdown]

I was actually pulling for Champ Bailey.. 10 int's, 21 pd's, over 75 tackles... the guy was really in a class by himself this year.. he get's far fewer chances to make plays then a LB or DE..

I don't think Merriman had a chance to win it regardless of the suspension.. the reason I think Taylor won it was because of how much he stood out against the rest of his team in each game and also 10 fumbles caused is a huge number...

The whole San Diego team gets pressure and Merriman benefits from that by cleaning up a lot after pressure comes from somewhere else.

 

[aikemirv]

You are chasing your tail -- you said:



I argued that wasn't the case. But now you switch back to the "he got suspended" angle. Just get your 10,000th post and lets call this horse beaten and dead.

You are the on chasing your tail because the fact is, the reason he got suspended, is directly related to production on the field.

So you can't make a statement that had he not gotten suspended he would have won the award without taking into account the reason he was suspended.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Which ignores WHY he got suspended, and the effects that might have had on your theoretical situation. This isn't rocket science.

Isnt a player suspended coz he was caught a second time?

Sounds like he has an addiction.

 

[AbeBeta]

Isnt a player suspended coz he was caught a second time?

Sounds like he has an addiction.

not for steroids -- it's the first positive. it is a different policy

 

[AbeBeta]

You are the on chasing your tail because the fact is, the reason he got suspended, is directly related to production on the field.

So you can't make a statement that had he not gotten suspended he would have won the award without taking into account the reason he was suspended.

You aren't following the discussion. Are you????